How bad are the Gardai and what do we do about it?

steddyeddy · 09-06-2014 04:06PM

Shady Tady wrote: »

It was you, I was right!

Where do you get off accusing posters on here of being on drugs?

Shady Tady · 09-06-2014 04:09PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Where do you get off accusing posters on here of being on drugs?

Steddy up there eddy, he's accused me of lying in court and he never met me and I didn't get into a huff, less of the drama petal!

steddyeddy · 09-06-2014 04:10PM

Shady Tady wrote: »

Steddy up there eddy, he's accused me of lying in court and he never met me and I didn't get into a huff, less of the drama petal!

Well we're all adults here. If someone is baiting you rise above it. That's what being grown up is all about.

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 04:15PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

He doesn't want to quote them because then it would give the context they were in. Better to just report the headline and sensationalise it, much in the way a tabloid newspaper would.

Actually I'm not quoting them word for word because the copy I'm viewing is a photcopy and doesn't allow for copy and paste. That's why I gave the sections as requested.

http://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/guerin-report.pdf

Muahahaha wrote: »

End of the day even if McCabe made mistakes in his career it matters not a jot because it turns out he was right in the important matters.

So Gardaí should be judged on the overall balance of their behaviour? That seems pretty hypocritical to be honest. Either you want accountability or you don't. Can you even see the contradiction in your stance?

Muahahaha wrote: »

His detractors here clearly have an agenda, they would prefer point the finger at McCabe because he has, in the words of one of his colleagues in Mullingar, "ruined the force", which is code for "I can no longer dish out favours to family and friends by getting them off penalty points".

McCabes actions haven't ruined anything. They won't affect the majority of Gardaí. The Guerin report was an indictment of management for the most part. My only "agenda" is to respond to someone who asked why some considered him a bad sergeant. You think his failings are cancelled out by his whistle blowing. I do not.

steddyeddy · 09-06-2014 04:16PM

Shady Tady wrote: »

Steddy up there eddy, he's accused me of lying in court and he never met me and I didn't get into a huff, less of the drama petal!

By the way Shady denying the accusation that you lie in court by lieing about him and his friend being on drugs isn't the best strategy.

steddyeddy · 09-06-2014 04:18PM

McCabe had his problems as a gaurd but that doesn't diminish his contribution as a whistleblower. He wasn't the first whistleblower in the gaurds either. Many of them suffered for reporting breaches in the law.

The_Captain · 09-06-2014 04:24PM

99% of the Guards I've ever met have been brilliant.

Even the senior corruption is relatively light-weight. They don't like whistle-blowers and don't want to be criticised/scrutinised. It's not exactly hookers and blow

RustyNut · 09-06-2014 04:32PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

My only "agenda" is to respond to someone who asked why some considered him a bad sergeant. You think his failings are cancelled out by his whistle blowing. I do not.

I didn't ask why some people consider him a bad Sargent, the reason why some Gards think that is obvious.
One of your colleagues stated that there was a report that said he was a bad Sargent, you then said it was the Gurein report but can not quote where it states that, the report in fact states that he is an honest hard working diligent Sargent, but dont let the facts stop you from continuing to bully an honourable man.

Shady Tady · 09-06-2014 04:44PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well we're all adults here. If someone is baiting you rise above it. That's what being grown up is all about.

That's pretty funny coming from you!

steddyeddy · 09-06-2014 04:46PM

Shady Tady wrote: »

That's pretty funny coming from you!

What am I on drugs too?

09-06-2014 04:47PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Suggesting an arrest for hijacking, false imprisonment and sexual assault in a case where a woman was grabbed on the ass - 4.8

This is the statement you are referring to I think (from the report):

"The minute I pulled off the verbal abuse from the biggest lads started. He started verbally abusing the lady passengers that I had on board. Putting women down saying filthy talk and talking about their privates. He was trying to start a row with their partners by saying stuff to them. His mates one of them the smallest lad kept laughing and egging him on.

The bald lad was asleep in the bus and the last lad was sitting behind me telling them to stop. About half way to Kingscourt I stopped to let a fella and his girlfriend offand when the girl was getting off, the biggest lad grabbed her arse. . . .

When I got to Kingscourt I told the four lads they would have to get off it was the last stop. I still had about six locals on the bus who I was going to drop home because I would always leave them home. The four lads refused to get off when asked. The biggest lad kept saying to ring the Guards that he wasn't moving he wanted to be taken to Ardee. He refused to get off for about half an hour and the other people just got impatient as they wanted to get home so they got off. One girl was still on the bus she didn’t get off.

When the passengers were getting off the biggest lad groped another girl when she was getting off. The four lads were still on the bus at this stage. I then agreed to take them to Ardee and the lad sitting behind me said out loud to the other lads that ‘we'll pay her well if she does it’. The biggest lad then started shouting ‘she’s getting nothing off me I’ll just take the bus and take myself ****ing home’.

At this stage I was terrified so I told them I wasn’t taking them anywhere but I’d ring them another taxi. I then got off the bus and walked to the middle of the road so they couldn’t hear me and rang Bailieboro Garda Station. The minute I got off the phone I heard the girl on the bus screaming. I ran around to the side door and saw the big lad had a grip of the girl holding her by her clothes at the front. She then broke free of him and ran up the town screaming.”

I hope you're not a Guard if you think that's a woman being "grabbed on the ass"

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 04:49PM

RustyNut wrote: »

but dont let the facts stop you from continuing to bully an honourable man.

I trust you see the irony in that I am basing my opinion on the facts I have highlighted and you are basing yours on someone elses opinion.

I can't see how I am bullying him. I'm just scrutinising his actions in the same manner he scrutinised the probationers. You've put him up on a pedestal because you think he has given you some stick to beat all Gardaí with. Is he immune to criticism now? Can he even be disciplined in work if he does something wrong or will that be part of the conspiracy?

I've no issue with his exposition of penalty point cancellations. It won't affect me in the slightest. Nor will his exposition of Balieborough Garda Station.

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 04:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the statement you are referring to I think (from the report):

The minute I pulled off the verbal abuse from the biggest lads started. He started verbally abusing the lady passengers that I had on board. Putting women down saying filthy talk and talking about their privates. He was trying to start a row with their partners by saying stuff to them. His mates one of them the smallest lad kept laughing and egging him on.

The bald lad was asleep in the bus and the last lad was sitting behind me telling them to stop. About half way to Kingscourt I stopped to let a fella and his girlfriend offand when the girl was getting off, the biggest lad grabbed her arse. . . .

When I got to Kingscourt I told the four lads they would have to get off it was the last stop. I still had about six locals on the bus who I was going to drop home because I would always leave them home. The four lads refused to get off when asked. The biggest lad kept saying to ring the Guards that he wasn't moving he wanted to be taken to Ardee. He refused to get off for about half an hour and the other people just got impatient as they wanted to get home so they got off. One girl was still on the bus she didn’t get off.

When the passengers were getting off the biggest lad groped another girl when she was getting off. The four lads were still on the bus at this stage. I then agreed to take them to Ardee and the lad sitting behind me said out loud to the other lads that ‘we'll pay her well if she does it’. The biggest lad then started shouting ‘she’s getting nothing off me I’ll just take the bus and take myself ****ing home’.

At this stage I was terrified so I told them I wasn’t taking them anywhere but I’d ring them another taxi. I then got off the bus and walked to the middle of the road so they couldn’t hear me and rang Bailieboro Garda Station. The minute I got off the phone I heard the girl on the bus screaming. I ran around to the side door and saw the big lad had a grip of the girl holding her by her clothes at the front. She then broke free of him and ran up the town screaming.”

I hope you're not a Guard if you think that's 'grabbing a girl's arse"

It certainly isn't hijacking.

Also, I would translate "the biggest lad grabbed her arse"to mean he grabbed her arse.

09-06-2014 04:53PM

In fact, it reads rather like hijacking and false imprisonment to me.

Is taking control of a vehicle by using force or the threat of force not hijacking?

Shady Tady · 09-06-2014 05:19PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

What am I on drugs too?

Not when your called Steddyeddy

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 06:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

In fact, it reads rather like hijacking and false imprisonment to me.

Is taking control of a vehicle by using force or the threat of force not hijacking?

I must be missing something. Can you quote the bit where they took the vehicle by force?

Muahahaha · 09-06-2014 07:25PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I must be missing something. Can you quote the bit where they took the vehicle by force?

Back to arguing the minutiae in your attempt to sully the reputation of a good Garda :rolleyes:

It was far more threatening than a slap on the arse and you know it. That young girl thought she was going to be raped and all you can do here is focus on damaging the reputation of a good and decent Garda.

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 07:57PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Back to arguing the minutiae in your attempt to sully the reputation of a good Garda :rolleyes:

It was far more threatening than a slap on the arse and you know it. That young girl thought she was going to be raped and all you can do here is focus on damaging the reputation of a good and decent Garda.

Are you serious? I'm not the one that started with semantics. And where do you get the idea she thought she would be raped? She was never even identified. You're just making **** up now. The hypocrisy here is astounding. Maybe take a look at your own posts before commenting on mine.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 09-06-2014 08:03PM

So a Guard was a little liberal with the truth in court...haven't solicitors been doing that for years????

Muahahaha · 09-06-2014 11:28PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Are you serious? I'm not the one that started with semantics. And where do you get the idea she thought she would be raped? She was never even identified. You're just making **** up now. The hypocrisy here is astounding. Maybe take a look at your own posts before commenting on mine.

So you dont think that a girl who had just been sexually groped would think that the next step in the crime is rape ? If a man is willing to sexually grope a female well then he's certainly prepared to rape her- both actions show zero regard for her bodily integrity and are one and the same to any woman. The very fact she ran away up the street shows she was scared out of her wits. You seem to make light of the seriousness of it, I hope your daughter is never placed in that same situation, I'm sure if she was then you'd appreciate her fear of being raped.

sam34 · 09-06-2014 11:40PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

So you dont think that a girl who had just been sexually groped would think that the next step in the crime is rape ? If a man is willing to sexually grope a female well then he's certainly prepared to rape her- both actions show zero regard for her bodily integrity and are one and the same to any woman. The very fact she ran away up the street shows she was scared out of her wits. You seem to make light of the seriousness of it, I hope your daughter is never placed in that same situation, I'm sure if she was then you'd appreciate her fear of being raped.

No, no they're not. Being groped is very different to bring raped and to suggest otherwise does a disservice to rape victims.

Potential-Monke · 10-06-2014 12:55AM

Like all threads with Garda bashing, there's no point. People have their minds made up. The Government doesn't want Gardaí speaking their minds, and even posting on here can put the job on the line. I've defended the good Gardaí enough times in numerous threads. People thinking McCabe is the best Garda possible because he outed some corruption, but dismissing that he actually wasn't very good at his job, but that's ok as long as he's a whistleblower.

I'm out of this thread, like i always end up leaving because it goes around in circles all day long. People want honesty, but give out when they get it. Little gestures between professionals is seen as corruption of the highest order, or leads to corruption of the highest order. Everyone, and i mean everyone, has been corrupt in their lives, but it's only corruption to them when they're not benefiting from it. Discretion is corruption, but people don't want robots enforcing the law either, because it will effect everyone.

People want the Gardaí to be this super-force, incapable of making mistakes, but that's not human nature. People make mistakes. It happens in every job, everywhere in the world. I was going to reply to a few people who quoted me, but what's the point. It doesn't matter what i say, i'm wrong. The final point that i'll make is that regardless or what is said or done, those who have a hatred of the Gardaí will never change their minds. So it's pointless. I'm not admitting defeat, i just couldn't be bothered going through all this again. Done it enough times already.

Good luck in your lives people, and i hope the day doesn't come when you might require the services of these corrupt Gardaí.

Muahahaha · 10-06-2014 02:43AM

sam34 wrote: »

No, no they're not. Being groped is very different to bring raped and to suggest otherwise does a disservice to rape victims.

I never suggested rape was the same as sexual groping, you are misquoting me. I am saying that the fear they put into women are one and the same- being groped or raped are in the same category of fear because one leads to the other.

I said that sexual groping a woman's private parts and raping her both show that the perpetrator has no respect for her bodily integrity. One crime is a lot more violent than the other but both crimes are in the same zone- if a man is willing to touch a woman sexually without consent and against her will then he obviously has zero respect for her, he has crossed a threshold by groping her against her will, for the woman once that threshold is broken automatically her guard is up against rape because the perpetrator has now displayed behaviour that you would only expect from a potential rapist.

The truth of the point doesn't lie with me because I'm a man. But go ask any woman you know if she has been just sexually groped by a man who was drunk and abusive in a taxi wether or not she would then think to herself she wasn't in danger of being raped. The man has revealed himself to be a sexual predator by groping her, she's hardly likely to be standing there thinking "well it was only a grope, there's no way this man would actually rape me". No she dam well wouldn't, she would run a mile screaming, as the victim has done in this case.

So before you go accusing me of doing rape victims a disservice perhaps consider yourself how for them the crime of rape began with a grope and see it from their point of view.

chrissb8 · 10-06-2014 04:20AM

Looking at Dublin city center which is full of junkies dealing drugs or doing them or sitting out strung out on them. Why is there no gardai presence consistently all the time in all the main areas of Dublin. I just do not get it. I am sick and just feel embarrassed that the capital city of Ireland can't even deal with a problem like this. I have no time for the gardai at all. A lot are very aloof. A lot are fat street beat delusional fools if they think they're catching some skinny 18 year old scumbag sprinting away from them. Of course the corruption and the fact that there's not enough of them are other issues to add to why I think they're terrible. I think the gardai as a model and system of protecting people needs to be seriously looked at. Then again I don't have much faith in any institution in Ireland.

Witcher · 10-06-2014 05:17AM

chrissb8 wrote: »

Looking at Dublin city center which is full of junkies dealing drugs or doing them or sitting out strung out on them. Why is there no gardai presence consistently all the time in all the main areas of Dublin. I just do not get it. I am sick and just feel embarrassed that the capital city of Ireland can't even deal with a problem like this. I have no time for the gardai at all. A lot are very aloof. A lot are fat street beat delusional fools if they think they're catching some skinny 18 year old scumbag sprinting away from them. Of course the corruption and the fact that there's not enough of them are other issues to add to why I think they're terrible. I think the gardai as a model and system of protecting people needs to be seriously looked at. Then again I don't have much faith in any institution in Ireland.

The Gardai have become severely disillusioned because the judicial system is not punishing people properly for their crimes. I know several Gardai and they've all said the same thing to me.

There was a similar thread on this a while ago and after it I asked one of them again about..he said the week before he had brought a lad in for attacking a man with a fire poker..as he said himself..who the fcuk carries a fire poker around...anyway your man was brought in and he saw him later walking back towards his(the young lad's) estate as he was finishing his shift having been let out. Presumably they were working on charges...file sent to the DPP etc. but that's what the Gardai are seeing everyday...they're pissing against the wind.

I've seen it in my own town without having a Garda tell me..lad I know indirectly was caught with 2/3 guns and a load of ammunition....he got two years and served one. The mandatory minimum sentence for even possessing a bullet is supposed to be 5 years, 10 if you intend to endanger life with it.

sam34 · 10-06-2014 07:01AM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I never suggested rape was the same as sexual groping, you are misquoting me. I am saying that the fear they put into women are one and the same- being groped or raped are in the same category of fear because one leads to the other.

I said that sexual groping a woman's private parts and raping her both show that the perpetrator has no respect for her bodily integrity. One crime is a lot more violent than the other but both crimes are in the same zone- if a man is willing to touch a woman sexually without consent and against her will then he obviously has zero respect for her, he has crossed a threshold by groping her against her will, for the woman once that threshold is broken automatically her guard is up against rape because the perpetrator has now displayed behaviour that you would only expect from a potential rapist.

The truth of the point doesn't lie with me because I'm a man. But go ask any woman you know if she has been just sexually groped by a man who was drunk and abusive in a taxi wether or not she would then think to herself she wasn't in danger of being raped. The man has revealed himself to be a sexual predator by groping her, she's hardly likely to be standing there thinking "well it was only a grope, there's no way this man would actually rape me". No she dam well wouldn't, she would run a mile screaming, as the victim has done in this case.

So before you go accusing me of doing rape victims a disservice perhaps consider yourself how for them the crime of rape began with a grope and see it from their point of view.

I didn't misquote you- I quoted you directly and highlighted part of what you said.

And you know, I don't need to go around asking 'any woman (I) know' about her experience, and taking that answer as definitive, because I'm a woman, I've been groped, I know lots of women who've been groped, there's often threads in TLL about it... From my experience, the amount of gropes that led to rape or more violent sexual assault is very small. I don't think it's correct that any woman who gets groped immediately fears she will be raped by the perpetrator.

10-06-2014 09:23AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I must be missing something. Can you quote the bit where they took the vehicle by force?

When I got to Kingscourt I told the four lads they would have to get off it was the last stop. I still had about six locals on the bus who I was going to drop home because I would always leave them home. The four lads refused to get off when asked. The biggest lad kept saying to ring the Guards that he wasn't moving he wanted to be taken to Ardee. He refused to get off for about half an hour and the other people just got impatient as they wanted to get home so they got off. One girl was still on the bus she didn’t get off.

When the passengers were getting off the biggest lad groped another girl when she was getting off. The four lads were still on the bus at this stage. I then agreed to take them to Ardee and the lad sitting behind me said out loud to the other lads that ‘we'll pay her well if she does it’. The biggest lad then started shouting ‘she’s getting nothing off me I’ll just take the bus and take myself ****ing home’.

10-06-2014 09:29AM

By the way you described this incident as "the case where the woman was slapped on the arse in the taxi".

Either you can't read or you don't give a damn about lying to us. Which is it? Like I said, I hope you are not a guard.

Muahahaha · 10-06-2014 01:15PM

sam34 wrote: »

I didn't misquote you- I quoted you directly and highlighted part of what you said.

And you know, I don't need to go around asking 'any woman (I) know' about her experience, and taking that answer as definitive, because I'm a woman, I've been groped, I know lots of women who've been groped, there's often threads in TLL about it... From my experience, the amount of gropes that led to rape or more violent sexual assault is very small. I don't think it's correct that any woman who gets groped immediately fears she will be raped by the perpetrator.

I'm not saying all gropes lead to rape, of course not. Many gropes happen in public places, pubs, nightclubs, where the opportunity to rape isn't present. And nor am I saying that every man who gropes is a rapist, I'm saying he is a potential rapist and even an 'innocent' grope shows him to be so. You could put it this way: All rapists are gropers but not all gropers are rapists. You might have 5% of all men who are willing to grope women and 1% of all men who are willing to commit rape if the opportunity presents itself. Within the 5% groping population is contained the 1% raping population. So when a groper reveals himself by touching a woman's private parts without consent then they have just come face to face with a potential rapist and possibly with an actual rapist who has done it before. When I say potential rapist what I mean is that the person is a groper so therefore, having shown no respect for a woman's right to bodily integrity, has the potential to rape. He might not ever fulfill that potential in his lifetime, he might never get the opportunity to but it's the potentiality that women fear, and rightly so. It's a bit like someone who takes a gun out of their pocket, a moment before they were a normal human being but with a gun out they suddenly become a potential murderer even though they haven't actually murdered anyone. They've shown the disposition to do so by having a gun, much in the same way a groper displays the disposition to rape by his willingness to grope a woman sexually.

MRnotlob606 · 10-06-2014 01:16PM

smell off them

How bad are the Gardai and what do we do about it?

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