How bad are the Gardai and what do we do about it?

09-06-2014 10:31AM

There's a huge culture of this but what is going to be done? It's disgusting and people who are under the illusion that you are ok as long as you don't step out of line are completely ignorant.

I happen to know a person who was being screwed when he tried to make peacekeeper between two people about to get into a fight. Garda van came along they jumped out as if there was an old lady about to be socked and arrested all 3. My friend was accused of biting said Garda and was advised by his solicitor to plead guilty as the judge would never believe his word over a Guard's. My friend refused and when called upon in court questioned the judge himself as to whether the Guard had a photo of this bite mark. He also pointed out a crack in his tooth caused by a crash and explained the pain he would've felt had he of done as the Garda said he had.

It was an absolute disgrace. The excuse of a human being stood there lying in order to get himself a conviction against an innocent person and even told a pack of lies about friend's conduct on the night. CCTV was produced however and my friend was all good. But what an absolute cúnt. Not only saying my friend had been kicking and swinging but then had the badness in him to bite the Guard? And wtf was up with the solicitor? Who even after friend was found innocent had a laugh and a joke with the Guard outside afterwards?

People can say whatever they want. There is a huge level of corruption actively taking place in that organisation and something needs to be done to restore public faith but I don't think anything will be.

09-06-2014 10:39AM

Those who believe most guards are grand should ask themselves if they would like to be in a RTA with an off-duty one.

Shady Tady · 09-06-2014 10:40AM

Jay D wrote: »

There's a huge culture of this but what is going to be done? It's disgusting and people who are under the illusion that you are ok as long as you don't step out of line are completely ignorant.

I happen to know a person who was being screwed when he tried to make peacekeeper between two people about to get into a fight. Garda van came along they jumped out as if there was an old lady about to be socked and arrested all 3. My friend was accused of biting said Garda and was advised by his solicitor to plead guilty as the judge would never believe his word over a Guard's. My friend refused and when called upon in court questioned the judge himself as to whether the Guard had a photo of this bite mark. He also pointed out a crack in his tooth caused by a crash and explained the pain he would've felt had he of done as the Garda said he had.

It was an absolute disgrace. The excuse of a human being stood there lying in order to get himself a conviction against an innocent person and even told a pack of lies about friend's conduct on the night. CCTV was produced however and my friend was all good. But what an absolute cúnt. Not only saying my friend had been kicking and swinging but then had the badness in him to bite the Guard? And wtf was up with the solicitor? Who even after friend was found innocent had a laugh and a joke with the Guard outside afterwards?

People can say whatever they want. There is a huge level of corruption actively taking place in that organisation and something needs to be done to restore public faith but I don't think anything will be.

I wonder would your mates memory be a little selective! I'm sure they were stone cold sober!

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 10:43AM

RustyNut wrote: »

Can you post a link to the report that brands him a bad Sargent etc, or are you just joining the bullying of this man by bad mouthing him anonymously on the Internet.

It's called the Guerin report. Should be easy to get a copy. Try reading it from a legal standpoint. Look at the incidents and then look at the sergeants suggestions. If his advice had been followed in a number of those incidents we would be looking at reports into false arrests and false imprisonment.

I'll give you a few examples. In the case where the woman was slapped on the arse in the taxi, the sergeant recommended an arrest for sexual assault and hijacking. In the case where the lads pissed in a vinegar bottle, he recommended an arrest for assault causing harm. Those suggestions show a completely lack of understanding of the law.

In another case, involving missing cctv, he had been personally tasked with overseeing the probationer Garda and the investigation yet still manages to apportion all blame to the probationer when the case was dismissed. The cases in the Guerin report portray him as a sergeant who did not assist probationers and who did not know the law he was supposed to be enforcing.

09-06-2014 10:59AM

Shady Tady wrote: »

I wonder would your mates memory be a little selective! I'm sure they were stone cold sober!

I've given you fact and you've come back with an idiotic unfounded load of crap. The whole incident was caught on CCTV.

Have you lied in court much yourself? Sure you have.

+++ edit
needless to point out the above mentality of guilty until proven innocent. Also prevalent. Not very intelligent. Is it ego or justice that's meant to be served here?

RustyNut · 09-06-2014 12:03PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's called the Guerin report. Should be easy to get a copy. Try reading it from a legal standpoint. Look at the incidents and then look at the sergeants suggestions. If his advice had been followed in a number of those incidents we would be looking at reports into false arrests and false imprisonment.

I'll give you a few examples. In the case where the woman was slapped on the arse in the taxi, the sergeant recommended an arrest for sexual assault and hijacking. In the case where the lads pissed in a vinegar bottle, he recommended an arrest for assault causing harm. Those suggestions show a completely lack of understanding of the law.

In another case, involving missing cctv, he had been personally tasked with overseeing the probationer Garda and the investigation yet still manages to apportion all blame to the probationer when the case was dismissed. The cases in the Guerin report portray him as a sergeant who did not assist probationers and who did not know the law he was supposed to be enforcing.

I cant find where It said he is a bad sergeant, I did find this in the conclusions.

20.5 It should be recorded here that the Byrne-McGinn report found that:
"No malice on the part of Sergeant McCabe is established in the
making of his various complaints."
20.6 The time I have spent with Sergeant McCabe in the course of extensive
interviews has led me to no different conclusion. That said, the better
view, in any event, is likely to be the testimony of the men and women who
worked with Sergeant McCabe in the years before he made the complaints
that have been examined in this report.
20.7 The Byrne-McGinn investigation received statements from all of the District
Officers who had responsibility for Bailieboro District between 2003 and
2010. Chief Superintendent Gabriel Mclntyre said:
"I found Sergeant McCabe to be very positive and energetic in his
position. He displayed a strong work ethic with a strong emphasis in
community policing and to providing a high standard of policing to
the community."
20.8 Detective Superintendent Eugene Corcoran said:
"I found Sergeant McCabe to be capable and enthusiastic in his
approach to his duties. At all times I found him to be efficient. . . . I
would assess his performance very positively. In my experience he
was hard working and efficient. He understood the need to keep the
District Officer advised of all matters requiring attention at
Superintendent Level. . . . I found him to be very interested in his
work and in ensuring that matters were attended to promptly."
I 20.9 Retired Superintendent Liam Hogan said:
"I considered Sergeant McCabe to be an excellent Sergeant and
member of An Garda Siochana. He offered 200% commitment and was
my one of my most reliable members in the District. I relied on him, I
trusted him implicitly and I listened to his advice. . . . He was full of
enthusiasm with a very positive attitude. I was aware that he worked Chapter 20 Conclusions and Recommendations
hard and long hours displaying absolute loyalty and commitment to
An Garda Siochana, to the management team in the District, to his
colleagues and to the people of Balieboro. He took a particular
interest in the work progress and welfare of junior members in the
District HQ."
20.10 Superintendent M Lernihan said:
"I found [Sergeant McCabe] to be efficient, flexible and committed.
He was diligent in the performance of his duties. He encouraged and
directed those under his supervision and had a good working
relationship with the other Sergeants."

Maby you can quote the "bad sargeant" findings or is this just another attempt to undermine and bully an innocent man, for the sake of protecting a corrupt organisation.

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 12:23PM

RustyNut wrote: »

I cant find where It said he is a bad sergeant, I did find this in the conclusions.

Maby you can quote the "bad sargeant" findings or is this just another attempt to undermine and bully an innocent man, for the sake of protecting a corrupt organisation.

Try reading the actual report and assess him as a sergeant. Or even just respond to the points I highlighted.

09-06-2014 12:45PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Try reading the actual report and assess him as a sergeant. Or even just respond to the points I highlighted.

So all the members of the gardai quoted above are lying?

What point are you trying to prove again?

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 12:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So all the members of the gardai quoted above are lying?

What point are you trying to prove again?

I didn't say anyone was lying. I'm not trying to prove any point. Someone asked for the report that shows him as a bad sergeant and I responded. I didn't judge him on other peoples opinions, I judged him on the facts layed out in the report.

Shady Tady · 09-06-2014 12:54PM

Jay D wrote: »

I've given you fact and you've come back with an idiotic unfounded load of crap. The whole incident was caught on CCTV.

Have you lied in court much yourself? Sure you have.

+++ edit
needless to point out the above mentality of guilty until proven innocent. Also prevalent. Not very intelligent. Is it ego or justice that's meant to be served here?

You don't know me and yet you can tell everyone I have lied in court, interesting! You would be amazed at how selective defendants can be in their memory of events. Chances are your mate was full of alcohol or drugs, that's if it was your mate and not yourself! For the record I don't lie in court and never have.

09-06-2014 12:59PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I didn't say anyone was lying. I'm not trying to prove any point. Someone asked for the report that shows him as a bad sergeant and I responded. I didn't judge him on other peoples opinions, I judged him on the facts layed out in the report.

the gardai quoted in the report are either grossly incompetent or lying through their teeth. That's the only conclusion we can draw.

09-06-2014 01:10PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I've never actually seen a Garda use his badge. I have seen off duty members getting into clubs for free, but i have seen the same members checking those nightclubs and pubs, and i've seen the same members clear out the clubs/pubs when they're still open passed closing time. There is obviously a silent agreement between that member and the club, as the club know he's doing his job, and helps them out when necessary (what people working in a club seriously want to still be there after closing time?). In return, they just don't charge that member into the club (even if he wants to pay!), but know full well he'll drop a large amount of money inside there on booze. Works both ways. And Gardaí are not the only ones who get into clubs for free. You think the security and staff pay to get in on their nights off? Same for friends of the management or even security.

It is amazing how late Coppers can serve you a drink though isn't it?

RustyNut · 09-06-2014 01:23PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

The report that was released showed him as someone who was not capable of making correct decisions, someone with poor interpersonal skills and someone who was not a very good Sergeant.

RustyNut wrote: »

Can you post a link to the report that brands him a bad Sargent etc, or are you just joining the bullying of this man by bad mouthing him anonymously on the Internet.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's called the Guerin report. Should be easy to get a copy. Try reading it from a legal standpoint. Look at the incidents and then look at the sergeants suggestions. If his advice had been followed in a number of those incidents we would be looking at reports into false arrests and false imprisonment.

I'll give you a few examples. In the case where the woman was slapped on the arse in the taxi, the sergeant recommended an arrest for sexual assault and hijacking. In the case where the lads pissed in a vinegar bottle, he recommended an arrest for assault causing harm. Those suggestions show a completely lack of understanding of the law.

In another case, involving missing cctv, he had been personally tasked with overseeing the probationer Garda and the investigation yet still manages to apportion all blame to the probationer when the case was dismissed. The cases in the Guerin report portray him as a sergeant who did not assist probationers and who did not know the law he was supposed to be enforcing.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Try reading the actual report and assess him as a sergeant. Or even just respond to the points I highlighted.

The quotes I gave above are from the actual report. Can you quote where it stated that he was

someone who was not capable of making correct decisions, someone with poor interpersonal skills and someone who was not a very good Sergeant

as the quotes from the actual report would seem to dispute this.

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 01:46PM

RustyNut wrote: »

The quotes I gave above are from the actual report. Can you quote where it stated that he was as the quotes from the actual report would seem to dispute this.

You don't see the flaw in your source? You're relying on quotes from supervisors in a report on the unreliability of supervisors. I don't care what they said. The whole point of the Guerin report was to look beyond what was done officially. I based my opinion solely on the facts in each case. Either address them or don't.

Muahahaha · 09-06-2014 01:55PM

[QUOTE=Potential-Monke;90749347

It's not possible to get your "record cleaned". Once it's on the system, it stays on the system. It cannot be removed. Your friend is either lieing, or was never seriously in trouble.

Hmmm your claim didn't seem to apply to Kieran Boylan, the drug trafficker with a conviction for importing heroin. Gardai had no problems at all adjusting his criminal record so he could apply for another hauliers license to carry on importing heroin, all with Gardai approval. In fact on no less than THREE occasions the Dept of Transport asked Gardai to clarify Mr.Boylans previous convictions. Each time they were rebuffed.
Your claim that a record can't be wiped is utter rubbish. I know this for a fact, I'm privy to information from the legal sphere that tells me otherwise. I've no reason to believe that these solicitors are lying.

I've never actually seen a Garda use his badge. I have seen off duty members getting into clubs for free, but i have seen the same members checking those nightclubs and pubs, and i've seen the same members clear out the clubs/pubs when they're still open passed closing time. There is obviously a silent agreement between that member and the club, as the club know he's doing his job, and helps them out when necessary (what people working in a club seriously want to still be there after closing time?). In return, they just don't charge that member into the club (even if he wants to pay!), but know full well he'll drop a large amount of money inside there on booze. Works both ways. And Gardaí are not the only ones who get into clubs for free. You think the security and staff pay to get in on their nights off? Same for friends of the management or even security.

So now you're trying to justify low level corruption. Because that's what it is.

So, it's the Gardas fault that there were no forms there the day after you rang? It's the Gardas fault that they cannot stamp a form for an address in a different district? (That's procedure, by the way, same for a passport - him stamping it would have ended up in the form being returned and it taking longer). And not all stations get the forms, but normally the Divisional or District Headquarters do, so that's why some stations have them, others don't. You could also have gotten the form online, in the Motor Tax office, Post Offices and, as you got it, in the NDLS centres. You could have avoided it all by going straight to the NDLS centre to get the form in the first place.

You need to go back and re-read my post. The point I was making was that I rang the Garda station at 10pm to be told "there's forms there". Next morning I went down at 8am and there was no forms there. The Garda on duty said try Ballymum. The Ballymun Garda said sorry, no forms here, try Santry. Finally the Santry Garda knew what the craic was- he said they no longer stock driving license forms since the new NDLS procedures regime came in a few months ago. I don't know why, neither did he but he did know the score. Whereas the Garda on the phone in Finglas didn't know the score, his colleague in the morning didn't know it and nor did the Garda in Ballymun. Finally the guy in Santry could explain why there was no forms, if it wasn't for him I could have been visiting Garda stations all weekend looking for them. Thats why I said they couldn't get a simple job done right and I stick by that

.[/QUOTE]

..

RustyNut · 09-06-2014 01:56PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You don't see the flaw in your source? You're relying on quotes from supervisors in a report on the unreliability of supervisors. I don't care what they said. The whole point of the Guerin report was to look beyond what was done officially. I based my opinion solely on the facts in each case. Either address them or don't.

So it doesn't say that he is a bad Sargent or anything like it or you would have quoted it by now. You are putting your own spin on it to paint the man in the worst lpossable light.

Bullying at its worst.

As with most problems you have to admit there is a problem before you can address it.

Muahahaha · 09-06-2014 02:05PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Can you post a link to the report that brands him a bad Sargent etc, or are you just joining the bullying of this man by bad mouthing him anonymously on the Internet.

I'd like to see a link where the Guerin report bad mouths Garda McCabe too. Because I never heard of that, all I ever heard was politicians describe him as credible, trustworthy and distinguished.

Which is a lot more that can be said for his so called colleagues in Mullingar who are bullying and harassing him.

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 02:06PM

RustyNut wrote: »

So it doesn't say that he is a bad Sargent or anything like it or you would have quoted it by now. You are putting your own spin on it to paint the man in the worst lpossable light.

Bullying at its worst.

As with most problems you have to admit there is a problem before you can address it.

I'm going to assume you have not read the report and are incapable of responding to the examples I mentioned. You can speculate about my motives all you want. You're just engaging in the worst kind of hypocrisy. You're ignoring and dismissing all criticism of the sergeant because it suits you too. Either that or you're blinded by some kind of hero worship.

Son Of A Vidic · 09-06-2014 02:12PM

AndonHandon wrote: »

...when do we hear of them being rewarded for little things like sending a car around to an estate where a dodgy character was reported, helping a drunk person into a taxi for their own good or even giving directions to a lost civilian?...

Rewarded for what? Doing their job? I have saved a lot of lives throughout my career and I don't expect to be rewarded or praised for doing my job. It's what I do and I am professionally and ethically obligated to do my job. So why should the Gardai receive reward and praise for doing a job they signed up to do? I have treated numerous nurses who have been violent assaulted in A&E departments and return to work the next day. Then I have seen Detectives & Gardai take extended sick leave, after very minor altercations. One particular burly detective went on 6 months sick leave, after a 12 year old boy punched him in the shoulder. And that was just one of many such cases I could speak of. So without even considering the whistleblowing, the penalty points fiasco, the McBrearty's, ect, ect. I pretty much lost my respect for the Gardai some time ago. I don't trust them and I have absolutely no faith in them.

RustyNut · 09-06-2014 02:14PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'm going to assume

I'm only going on what it actually says in the report. I've given you quotes stating by several senior Gardai that he is an honest, diligent Sargent. You and your colleague have only bad mouthed the man with not one quote from a report that you brought into the debate.

Throw enough **** and hope some of it sticks..

Disgusting.

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 02:17PM

RustyNut wrote: »

I'm only going on what it actually says in the report. I've given you quotes stating by several senior Gardai that he is an honest, diligent Sargent. You and your colleague have only bad mouthed the man with not one quote from a report that you brought into the debate.

Throw enough **** and hope some of it sticks..

Disgusting.

Have you actually read the cases though? Can you form your own opinion of his actions based on the facts in each one or can you only parrot what others say? If you haven't even bothered to read the reported cases then there's no point in discussing it with you.

AudreyHepburn · 09-06-2014 02:18PM

Like every other profession on earth there are a few bad eggs but the majority are good honest hardworking people who do a job most of us would run a mile from and deal with the scum of the earth daily.

Tarnishing all of the them because of one or two bad experiences you may have had does no-one any favors.

steddyeddy · 09-06-2014 02:19PM

Shady Tady wrote: »

You don't know me and yet you can tell everyone I have lied in court, interesting! You would be amazed at how selective defendants can be in their memory of events. Chances are your mate was full of alcohol or drugs, that's if it was your mate and not yourself! For the record I don't lie in court and never have.

You accused someone you don't know of being on alcohol or drugs based solely on the fact his description differs from the gaurds.

09-06-2014 02:20PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Have you actually read the cases though? Can you form your own opinion of his actions based on the facts in each one or can you only parrot what others say? If you haven't even bothered to read the reported cases then there's no point in discussing it with you.

I'm not trying to be funny here but why don't you quote them? You keep telling us to read the report. Why not just quote the relevant sections (rather than tell us your own interpretation of them?)

Anyway I am sure he has made mistakes and is not perfect. Is anyone? Is that relevant?

RustyNut · 09-06-2014 02:28PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Have you actually read the cases though? Can you form your own opinion of his actions based on the facts in each one or can you only parrot what others say? If you haven't even bothered to read the reported cases then there's no point in discussing it with you.

Now we are getting somewhere. The report doesn't actually say that he is a bad Sargent this is just your own opinion.

A quick quote to where it states he is a bad sargent will shut me up.

Little CuChulainn · 09-06-2014 02:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not trying to be funny here but why don't you quote them? You keep telling us to read the report. Why not just quote the relevant sections (rather than tell us your own interpretation of them?)

Because it's necessary to read the whole thing to get a full picture. And also, it doesn't allow me to use a search funtion to find specific sections. But because you asked nicely I'll highlight the three specific failings I mentioned.

Suggesting an arrest for hijacking, false imprisonment and sexual assault in a case where a woman was grabbed on the ass - 4.8

Suggesting an arrest for assault causing harm for pissing in a vinegar bottle - 7.15 (Guerin actually notes that one of the suggested charges only relates to syringe attacks)

Being told to take charge of a case that he later blamed on probationer - Section 5.27

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyway I am sure he has made mistakes and is not perfect. Is anyone? Is that relevant?

I suppose it is if you are going to accuse people of being hostile towards him merely because he was a whistleblower. The man was a sergeant. His job was to help probationers and keep them on the right track. The failings in the Guerin report where as much his as anyone elses.

If he as a sergeant noticed all these issues, why did he not step in and sort them out? What kind of a sergeant watches a new probationer Garda tank a case instead of stepping in and telling him what he is doing wrong? And not only that but after standing by and watching him mess up he then tries to get him disciplined. To me that is a bad supervisor and a bad person to have to work under. I'd apply that criteria to any job.

09-06-2014 03:19PM

Shady Tady wrote: »

You don't know me and yet you can tell everyone I have lied in court, interesting! You would be amazed at how selective defendants can be in their memory of events. Chances are your mate was full of alcohol or drugs, that's if it was your mate and not yourself! For the record I don't lie in court and never have.

No I'm actually just highlighting the fact that you're an absolute hypocrite. Can you not see the irony here of your sweeping judgmental statements? And also you are full of shít, hence why it took you an eternity to come back with such crap.

See I threw that generalisation in in a way similar to what you did. I wasn't serious but you took the bate. You come back with even more sweeping bs. Not only that but you build it up into something further. I think it's fair to say I have proven my point here as far as you're concerned anyway.

RustyNut · 09-06-2014 03:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not trying to be funny here but why don't you quote them? You keep telling us to read the report. Why not just quote the relevant sections (rather than tell us your own interpretation of them?)

Anyway I am sure he has made mistakes and is not perfect. Is anyone? Is that relevant?

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Because it's necessary to read the whole thing to get a full picture. And also, it doesn't allow me to use a search funtion to find specific sections. But because you asked nicely I'll highlight the three specific failings I mentioned.

Suggesting an arrest for hijacking, false imprisonment and sexual assault in a case where a woman was grabbed on the ass - 4.8

Suggesting an arrest for assault causing harm for pissing in a vinegar bottle - 7.15 (Guerin actually notes that one of the suggested charges only relates to syringe attacks)

Being told to take charge of a case that he later blamed on probationer - Section 5.27

I suppose it is if you are going to accuse people of being hostile towards him merely because he was a whistleblower. The man was a sergeant. His job was to help probationers and keep them on the right track. The failings in the Guerin report where as much his as anyone elses.

If he as a sergeant noticed all these issues, why did he not step in and sort them out? What kind of a sergeant watches a new probationer Garda tank a case instead of stepping in and telling him what he is doing wrong? And not only that but after standing by and watching him mess up he then tries to get him disciplined. To me that is a bad supervisor and a bad person to have to work under. I'd apply that criteria to any job.

I hope that clears it all up for you now.:(

Muahahaha · 09-06-2014 03:41PM

RustyNut wrote: »

I hope that clears it all up for you now.:(

He doesn't want to quote them because then it would give the context they were in. Better to just report the headline and sensationalise it, much in the way a tabloid newspaper would.

End of the day even if McCabe made mistakes in his career it matters not a jot because it turns out he was right in the important matters.

His detractors here clearly have an agenda, they would prefer point the finger at McCabe because he has, in the words of one of his colleagues in Mullingar, "ruined the force", which is code for "I can no longer dish out favours to family and friends by getting them off penalty points".

indeed Shady Tady was banned over in the Politics forum for deliberately stirring things up on the thread about the Gardai corruption there. He says in a previous post that he never lies in court, which tells us he goes to court regularly. Hmmm, what job would require you to go to court regularly Shady Tady ?

Shady Tady · 09-06-2014 04:03PM

Jay D wrote: »

No I'm actually just highlighting the fact that you're an absolute hypocrite. Can you not see the irony here of your sweeping judgmental statements? And also you are full of shít, hence why it took you an eternity to come back with such crap.

See I threw that generalisation in in a way similar to what you did. I wasn't serious but you took the bate. You come back with even more sweeping bs. Not only that but you build it up into something further. I think it's fair to say I have proven my point here as far as you're concerned anyway.

It was you, I was right!

How bad are the Gardai and what do we do about it?

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