Be still my beating heart

Stazza · 08-06-2014 11:14AM

Gavlor wrote: »

But there has to be a happy medium between sightseeing and training like a pro for spring/summer next year!!

At the moment, Ososlo's training is geared towards running 5k races in July and August - this is what she wants. And while her training is geared towards running 5k's in July and August, it's also laying foundations for future development, again, this is what she wants. Also, I strongly suspect that Ososlo is in a happy place with her running. But again, I'll let her answer that one...

Gavlor · 08-06-2014 11:19AM

Stazza wrote: »

At the moment, Ososlo's training is geared towards running 5k races in July and August - this is what she wants. And while her training is geared towards running 5k's in July and August, it's also laying foundations for future development, again, this is what she wants. Also, I strongly suspect that Ososlo is in a happy place with her running. But again, I'll let her answer that one...

Relax, my comments weren't aimed at you.

Stazza · 08-06-2014 11:31AM

Gavlor wrote: »

Relax, my comments weren't aimed at you.

I am relaxed

I know your comments weren't aimed at me - why would they be?

theboyblunder · 08-06-2014 01:17PM

As others have said ososlo - its just one bad session. We all get bad sessions and bounce back. Do what a man does, blame everthing but yourself for it and just delete the experience after your next good workout

Everybody hates mile repeats. I have a pathological fear of any interval workout myself.

ecoli · 08-06-2014 01:20PM

I can see the approach you are making Stazza and definitely see its merit. The racing debate is an interesting one and I think there is definitely a fine line.

I think it comes down to the mental aspect of the individual. I can see alot of pro's and con's to each side.

I think some athletes can uses races to great affect to help benefit in training (in particular through the mental aspect) through

- Breaking up training blocks, helping see the clearing through the forest so to speak, often people find it easier to do numerous 4 week blocks as opposed to a 16 or 20 week training block. Here the races can coincide with down weeks or just be a bench marker to show improvement at the end of each block

- motivation and confidence. Some times a race is a great way to break up the mid cycle struggle. Nothing motivates us better than a good result to want to push on or help us believe that the training is going in the right direction.
This is one I particularly find useful with athletes as its a great way to help give an athlete confidence in the training they are doing as I try not to use same sessions too often to prevent an athlete racing a workout to beat previous times and keep the focus on effort.

However there are con's to and I know myself in my own training that during racing block my training was compromised to a point and this is also something to be mindful of for sure as we can get into a habit of racing too much when sometimes we just need to get the head down and keep the routine going without any distractions.

(Sorry for derailing your log O, if you want me to spilt the thread just say so)

Stazza · 08-06-2014 02:39PM

ecoli wrote: »

I can see the approach you are making Stazza and definitely see its merit. The racing debate is an interesting one and I think there is definitely a fine line.

I think it comes down to the mental aspect of the individual. I can see alot of pro's and con's to each side.

I think some athletes can uses races to great affect to help benefit in training (in particular through the mental aspect) through

- Breaking up training blocks, helping see the clearing through the forest so to speak, often people find it easier to do numerous 4 week blocks as opposed to a 16 or 20 week training block. Here the races can coincide with down weeks or just be a bench marker to show improvement at the end of each block

- motivation and confidence. Some times a race is a great way to break up the mid cycle struggle. Nothing motivates us better than a good result to want to push on or help us believe that the training is going in the right direction.
This is one I particularly find useful with athletes as its a great way to help give an athlete confidence in the training they are doing as I try not to use same sessions too often to prevent an athlete racing a workout to beat previous times and keep the focus on effort.

However there are con's to and I know myself in my own training that during racing block my training was compromised to a point and this is also something to be mindful of for sure as we can get into a habit of racing too much when sometimes we just need to get the head down and keep the routine going without any distractions.

(Sorry for derailing your log O, if you want me to spilt the thread just say so)

Agree with everything you've said.

John Kellogg (for those who don't know, he's a modern day/updated version of Lydiard) has some interesting thoughts on the subject. Here's what he says:

"Long-term development. It takes years for runners to attain their capacities. Most Americans employ a "fast food" training scheme, particularly in junior high and high school. They run hard intervals on the track, which gives them an alluring quick fix, yet the long-term results are without exception mediocre at best. Every time you race, you're drawing not only off of training you did a few weeks ago or even months ago, but also off of running or other activity that you did many years ago! The nature of that activity must be predominately aerobic for best future results in running."

PtK is working off 4 week cycles to break up his training/check out fitness etc. If I were fit enough, I too would use the 4 week cycle approach, but only for a limited amount of time. PtK will employ the 4 week cycle-race system until the end of August/September, before entering his first genuine block of 6 month 'base' training. During this period, he will not race. This suits him and his type. I suspect, it'll be the same for Ososlo. The main reason for this is that they are both just starting out. And to go back to Kellogg, if they race, they haven't got too much to draw upon. I don't agree with everything Kellogg has to say but this makes a lot of sense, especially for beginners and certain types of runner.

Bringing this back in to Ososlo: she's already run 5k pb's at the end of 10-12 mile progression runs - without killing herself. She knows she could go out and run a 5k pb. But if she waits a couple of weeks, she'll get more out of the training, which I think everybody would agree has seen her make substantial improvements with only a very limited amount of 'real' hard training.

That said, there's no point doing rucks of training and then wasting it etc. But for the sake of a week or two and finishing a schedule that has proven to be hugely effective, makes sense to me.

And like a few people have said, she merely bailed on a session. Crikey, I wish everybody cared this much about me when I bailed on my recent sessions. Must be something to do with long eyelashes.

menoscemo · 08-06-2014 03:26PM

Stazza, I am sure everything you say is correct in theory, but in reality training sessions like 4 x 1mile are mentally more demanding than doing say a Parkrun. I would argue that the training benefits are pretty much the same.

You can race short distances pretty much every week IMO but you don't have to do them all as flat out efforts. Last year my club were doing a 7 week series of races over hilly terrains where you wouldn't really put pressure on yourself for times/splits but you would race your clubmates for places. I found this brought me on something serious. I did a few 5/10ks at the weekends in this period and took 30 seconds off my 5k and 90seconds of my 10k PBs in about a month. I did pretty much only easy running apart from the races (no speedwork)

I am not saying no training sessions for ososlo but I think the odd parkrun in place of a tough weekend training session would be a good addition to her training phase. Play them as 90% efforts, even choose the hilliest parkrun around so there is no pressure on a time and do them as watchless/pressureless runs. This would not only have an equal training effect to a hard session (IMO) but also give a bit more racing/pacing experience and take the pressure off somewhat when the 'big' race comes up. I just feel putting all the eggs in one basket (target race) will just mean there is a load of pressure come the first race.

ecoli · 08-06-2014 03:31PM

Stazza wrote: »

Crikey, I wish everybody cared this much about me when I bailed on my recent sessions. Must be something to do with long eyelashes.

I think it's more a symptom of the way the forum has evolved. Most of the old training discussion was done in a theoretical way as just that, a discussion, but over the last year or two the training talk has moved to the logs and almost latch on to real world example to open up the discussion.

(admittedly my original comments were a little rash as I remember her not feeling great on a session a few weeks back from tiredness IIRC, and then seeing this having missed the subsequent posts due to holidays)

Ososlo · 08-06-2014 04:03PM

Jaysus. I decided to take a much needed 24 hour break from boards and running yesterday after my disastrous session and get some head space. Great timing:D Went to Kildare to visit my sister and stay over and listen to her complicated love life. Bastad of an ex-husband (remind me never to tell anyone in real life that I'm Ososlo) causing her hassle and she's in a very mixed up situation with someone new and possible someone else newer on the horizon... So listening to all of that soon took my mind off mile rep session. A few bottles of wine later we put the world to right and decided she (and most women.. not me!) would be better off without any men at all and turn lesbian and she needs to get back to taking her running seriously again. She was a minute faster than me over 5k about a year ago. She needs to get her priorities in order:cool:

Meanwhile, I had this burning sensation in my ears all night and now I know why!

Sunday 8 June
Woke up (after 2 hours sleep) with a bit of a sore throat so this might explain yesterday's problem but I know the few drinks didn't help matters either but were much needed. We were to go running in the Curragh but I decided to be sensible. Will rest today and if feeling better tomorrow will get back on the wagon. Drove the Funlavin route in case I decide to do that race as my first race but it's pretty awful. Lovely first half but a drag most of the second and a serious hill near the end. Good to know anyways. So it's looking like Kilcock now. Judging by my sudden popularity in running circles lately, the press might be there to see me pb so I might look into getting restyled for the race:D
Checked boards on my way back to Dublin and felt a little thrown and frustrated by some of it. Only one thing for it! Some shopping:D always makes me feel better, so popped into AKing on way home and treated myself to a new pair of racing shoes (which I hope to wear in my next race;)). They're Puma Faas 300v3s. Really like slippers as they are so comfy and light but still have a nice bit of support. Very tempted to try them out this evening but won't. Can't wait to race in them:) Met thirstywork and told him who I was on boards but unfortunately he was busy with another customer but I got his recommendations for some new shoes to try out following his earlier suggestions on my log. Dealt with another lovely guy in there. Once again superb service. It's always a pleasure.
Weekly total: 39 miles
A few changes will be made to my training from now on with a major focus being on rest and recovery. I'm going to have more days between sessions. I was only taking 1 day between them a few weeks ago which I don't think was enough for me. My body always seems to spring back fine the next day but I think there's more to recovery than that so need to give myself more time for it all to sink in. I'll be working off a 9 day week (lucky me! who else around here has a 9 day week:p) so that should make it all a little more manageable. I'll cut down on the mileage even more with the sole focus being on rest/recovery and sessions.
Now to catch up on my log:eek:

barryoneill50 · 08-06-2014 04:13PM

They will have to introduce a phased start in kilcock with the crowds that shall be turning up to see how you get on!

Ososlo · 08-06-2014 04:31PM

drquirky wrote: »

You need to race. Ditch the watch, run a parkrun and revel in your guaranteed pb. Honestly Ososlo ur in super shape explain to me why you aren't racing? Doing reps w/ no purpose is soul destroying.

Ah welcome back. The place hasn't been the same without you:D
To be very honest with you, I knew you'd be along sooner or later. It was just a matter of time. And I knew it'd be with a comment not necessarily aimed at me (if you know what I mean;)).
thanks for your comment about my 'shape' and I agree, I'm not looking too bad even though I do say so myself:p

I'm not racing because it's not in my plan. There was a 10k race included a few weeks back but I couldn't do it due to personal reasons.
I see plenty of long 5k training programmes with no tune up races and plenty with. It's one way of doing things.
I don't understand what you mean about reps 'with no purpose'

If I'm not doing them to help me get faster then I really am wasting my time!
They're part of my training programme all aimed at getting me to speed up.
I have no interest in 'revelling' in a pb. A small pb means nothing to me at this point. I wanted to put in a good long extended training effort towards getting faster and hopefully over a few races when my plan is finished, I'll see some significant results and that's what I'm doing. I don't see what all the fuss is about tbh.

Ososlo · 08-06-2014 04:50PM

Beef wrote: »

Defo do a race. It's the reward for doing the sessions and will give you confidence in your abilities and improved speed.

Thanks Beef and yes I'll be doing my first race once the training programme ends at the end of June.

SamforMayo wrote: »

I totally agree. I think you will have so much pressure put on yourself leading to this goal 5 km it will hold you back. Go do a park run, don't tell anyone your doing it, forget the watch and see how you get on!

It's the first race of a few races I'll be doing so not 'the' 'goal' race. There isn't one. First race at end of June.

Ososlo · 08-06-2014 04:55PM

AuldManKing wrote: »

Regarding the session, your post reminds me of my old log.
No seriously, we've all bailed on sessions.
Mile reps are horrible, horrendous inventions and should be banned from the runners lexicon.
Get back on the horse again.

theboyblunder wrote: »

As others have said ososlo - its just one bad session. We all get bad sessions and bounce back. Do what a man does, blame everthing but yourself for it and just delete the experience after your next good workout

Everybody hates mile repeats. I have a pathological fear of any interval workout myself.

ha ha yeah they are the creation of the running devil, no doubt about that!
Yes one bad session and I'll attack the next one with renewed vigour and looking forward to it now in a kind of sadistic way! Thanks:)

Ososlo · 08-06-2014 05:06PM

Gavlor wrote: »

I thought this whole running thing was meant to be fun, none of us are full time athletes preparing for the worlds or the Olympics.

Sometimes we can take the fun aspect out of it and it becomes like a second job.

Reading back on the last few weeks here and stazzas post above it appears that the enjoyment of running/training/racing is diminishing rapidly ososlo.

That's my 2 cents, feel free to ignore!!

I can plod on forever at my 10 min/mile pace or whatever and never improve (maybe make tiny improvements) but be a happy plodder with a smile on my face and yes this is the most enjoyable kind of running. Of course it is! Nobody has a smile on their face when they're doing interval work do they? It's not meant to be fun. It's mean to be hard work. If it's not hard work and you have a smile on yourself you're not doing it properly.
The thing is, I don't have any natural ability like yourself so I'll aways be a plodder if I don't work on my weakness. For someone like me, this is going to take a lot of work but I've changed my mindset lately and want to be more than a plodder forever. Running miles doesn't work for me to get faster. That's easily seen in the past year where I run good mileage but it doesn't make any gains for me. Marathon training actually made me slower. So I have to sacrifice some of the 'fun' of running to make significant improvements. I'm willing to make these sacrifices as I want to get faster. Yes there are a lot less smiley faces in my posts after sessions but that's what it's going to take I'm afraid. I can pull out of this 5k training any time I want and go back to marathon plodding and be really happy with smiley faces all over my posts and do a 4ish hour marathon. But that doesn't interest me anymore. I'd be much happier in myself to do a much better 5k time. But it's going to take some more pain to do that.

TRR · 08-06-2014 06:05PM

I love it when it kicks off like this around here!

TRR · 08-06-2014 06:06PM

Ps Ososlo. If you and your identical twin* decide to go lesbo record it and send me a copy

*humour me

Ososlo · 08-06-2014 06:09PM

TRR wrote: »

Ps Ososlo. If you and your identical twin* decide to go lesbo record it and send me a copy

*humour me

:eek: She's my sister:eek: Thanks for moving the topic on from my training though:D

TRR · 08-06-2014 06:35PM

Ososlo wrote: »

:eek: She's my sister:eek: Thanks for moving the topic on from my training though:D

Ok but you've no problem with going lesbo with somebody who isn't a family member and recording it for me? Well that's what I'm taking from this!

barryoneill50 · 08-06-2014 06:42PM

TRR wrote: »

Ok but you've no problem with going lesbo with somebody who isn't a family member and recording it for me? Well that's what I'm taking from this!

Ah, now I know why your next race is kilcock.....

Ososlo · 08-06-2014 06:55PM

TRR wrote: »

Ok but you've no problem with going lesbo with somebody who isn't a family member and recording it for me? Well that's what I'm taking from this!

Wow! How did we go from 4 x 1 mile reps to this in a few hours?
Seriously though, thank for moving the topic on:D

FITZA · 08-06-2014 08:14PM

Ososlo wrote: »

Cheers for that. Funlavin keep on going on about a new 'flatter' route this year as last year was so hilly apparently but 'flatter' doesn't necessarily mean flat!
Looking like Kilcock so! I read of your 5k pb last night on that thread!
Thanks again.

Hi Ososlo, just catching up on your log....the Funlavin 5k route is flat and I would think a pb course, the route has changed from last year (which was flat) and now includes a downhill run through the town of Dunlavin...making it even faster. The route is out and back the same road, but the finish does not take you back up the hill through the town, it is before the hill:) I am very familiar with the route. However the 10k route had a brute of a hill on it last year, this year the route has changed but would still have some 'nice' hills on it...up and down

I am doing the 10k as I did it last year but would much prefer to be doing the 5k. Link to 5k route... http://www.mapmydistance.com/route/1548/1548/ And for anyone doing 10k http://www.mapmydistance.com/route/154931/154931/

Ososlo · 08-06-2014 08:34PM

FITZA wrote: »

Hi Ososlo, just catching up on your log....the Funlavin 5k route is flat and I would think a pb course, the route has changed from last year (which was flat) and now includes a downhill run through the town of Dunlavin...making it even faster. The route is out and back the same road, but the finish does not take you back up the hill through the town, it is before the hill:) I am very familiar with the route. However the 10k route had a brute of a hill on it last year, this year the route has changed but would still have some 'nice' hills on it...up and down I am doing the 10k as I did it last year but would much prefer to be doing the 5k. Link to 5k route... http://www.mapmydistance.com/route/1548/1548/

Ah great thanks! Well that changes things dramatically (and might throw the paparazzi off the scent;) )
It would be a lovely race without that horrible last climb up to the centre of the village.
Really appreciate that and the link.
btw, don't get the wrong impression of my log from the posts in the last 24 hours. It's normally just posts about hard-work training runs:D

FITZA · 08-06-2014 08:54PM

Ososlo wrote: »

Ah great thanks! Well that changes things dramatically (and might throw the paparazzi off the scent;) )
It would be a lovely race without that horrible last climb up to the centre of the village.
Really appreciate that and the link.
btw, don't get the wrong impression of my log from the posts in the last 24 hours. It's normally just posts about hard-work training runs:D

it has made interesting reading alright

AuldManKing · 08-06-2014 09:04PM

** Apologies in advance to Ososlo **

Folks

Just an observation - right or wrong - I'm putting it out there.

Ososlo has a plan, decided by her and her coach, that has a certain end goal.
We're all like minded individuals on here who have opinions on all things running, but sometimes when you are on the receiving end of it, it is a bit overwhelming - I take this from personal experience, it may make you not want to post as much on Boards.
It has even made many posters close their accounts for similar reasons.

But, its a public forum, once you post it is a permanent record and we all have opinions on how certain athletes who we might follow and 'like' - and every one of us wants the best for that athlete. The very best.
So we post away, (I've done it many times) giving our advice - in some circumstances, this advice is different to the advice that the coach gives - that's ok sometimes - sometimes its not.

Anyway - I think we need to be mindful that 1 bailed session does not make anything. its not about racing more or less - its really about Ososlo committing to a plan giving to her by her coach that she's agreed to and is in the process of executing.
I think more support is better than less support.

Ososlo - if you need someone to pace your next set of reps - give me a shout. Serious offer.

As Ososlo is mentoring the novices for DCM - this message will delete - as I think all the above should in the next 12 hours.

Ososlo · 08-06-2014 09:13PM

AuldManKing wrote: »

Ososlo - if you need someone to pace your next set of reps - give me a shout. Serious offer.

Super post and what a lovely kind offer which I'll give some serious thought to and pm you. Cheers AMK:)

Pacing Mule · 08-06-2014 09:14PM

Well said AMK.

menoscemo · 08-06-2014 09:38PM

AuldManKing wrote: »

As Ososlo is mentoring the novices for DCM - this message will delete - as I think all the above should in the next 12 hours.

Great post but I don't think you should delete your post, nor do I think others should either. Debate is great I think and it makes people see things from different view points. Ignorance is bliss but knowledge is the key to betterment.

When I was a DCM novice in 2009 I was a member the novice thread and much of what my mentor (amadeus) said went over my head. I used to read a lot of the stuff that Tergat used to write on the main board at the time as well as the logs of the more experienced runners. TBH I just didn't understand it, I didn't know your PMPs from your tempos much less your mile reps. I thought that everyone just follwed a HH plan and ran a WR marathon :pac:.

However my interest and curiosity got piqued by all the debate and I resolved to study and understand. All the knowledge and debate in the long run made me a better runner. So don't burn the books AMK, keep the knowledge and debate alive. We are all adults around here.

Beef · 08-06-2014 09:48PM

I agree with meno tbh. Debate is brilliant and deleting posts is almost tantamount to censorship in my eyes (maybe that sounds a bit ott but I hope you know what I mean). I'm sure ososlo would rather this didn't happen on her log but I've certainly enjoyed the exchanges and learned something from the different opinions.

Gavlor · 08-06-2014 09:48PM

I'll delete this one no problem if required but I'm perplexed. Are we not to give constructive opinion on an individual's approach to training anymore?

It'll be all back slapping and high 5's soon enough. AMK is the platini of the boards a/r forum

Ososlo · 08-06-2014 09:57PM

Gavlor wrote: »

I'll delete this one no problem if required but I'm perplexed. Are we not to give constructive opinion on an individual's approach to training anymore?

It'll be all back slapping and high 5's soon enough. AMK is the platini of the boards a/r forum

No I certainly don't want that at all and don't want anything deleted. That's why I posted my cr^p session to get some feedback about whether I just need to toughen up or if I was right to bail out on Saturday, but I didn't realise it would blow all out of proportion and turn into a different discussion altogether.
End of;) :P

Be still my beating heart

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