Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

keane2097 · 07-06-2014 12:14PM

Still think it's mad how many people don't seem to realise LVG probably doesn't give a **** that United fans want to win the treble next year by spending 200 million.

duffman13 · 07-06-2014 12:15PM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Okay, picture this scenario...

- Kevin Strootman is badly injured.

- Roma are willing to sell him for £20m.

- United are interested in signing him.

What's the problem with United paying Roma (say) £2m for an option to buy the player at £20m on or before 31 August 2015?

I know where your coming from in that Roma get some funds even if it turns out he is crocked. I'd say there is merits in having a first option clause however I can't see Roma agreeing to a set fee. Rather they will just give United first option ie match any offer they receive and United get preference.

I think leave him off for 6 months and if he gets back to his best then pay the extra couple of million. We really can't afford another Hargreaves waddling around. Always wondering what might have been if he could stay fit

The_Kew_Tour · 07-06-2014 12:16PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Still think it's mad how many people don't seem to realise LVG probably doesn't give a **** that United fans want to win the treble next year by spending 200 million.

well for starters we cant win the treble next year.;)

duffman13 · 07-06-2014 12:19PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

well for starters we cant win the treble next year.;)

Whoa we could do a domestic treble!! Wash your mouth out

tallaghtmick · 07-06-2014 12:20PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

well for starters we cant win the treble next year.;)

Wellllllll the domestic treble we could :pac:

The_Kew_Tour · 07-06-2014 12:21PM

duffman13 wrote: »

Whoa we could do a domestic treble!! Wash your mouth out

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Wellllllll the domestic treble we could :pac:

its not the same and ye know it;)

homerjay2005 · 07-06-2014 12:22PM

newballsplease wrote: »

I was gonna say as someone pointed out... Why havent we sold anyone yet?

4 of our squad are already gone, Rio, Vidic, Giggs and Macheda. i guess LVG prob sees this as a considerable chunk of players gone and wants to assess the rest of them before agreeing to sell more.

the other side of that of course is that nobody wants them or more to the point, their wages and the fees we want are too high.

DM_7 · 07-06-2014 12:23PM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Okay, picture this scenario...

- Kevin Strootman is badly injured.

- Roma are willing to sell him for £20m.

- United are interested in signing him.

What's the problem with United paying Roma (say) £2m for an option to buy the player at £20m on or before 31 August 2015?

Assuming Strootman would be happy to agree to move to United at a later date over any other club in the world, that Roma see no reason that his value may go up, that that Roma were happy to give Strootman permission to talk to another club to agree personal terms and they see him giving all his effort to Roma while basically waiting for a club to activate a buy option then it could work.

Hidalgo · 07-06-2014 12:30PM

newballsplease wrote: »

I was gonna say as someone pointed out... Why havent we sold anyone yet?

A lot of the players UTD will want rid of are 'deadwood', but its easier said than done in moving these players on.

Take the likes of Ashley Young, UTD might want to sell him and may be willing to take a cut price to do so, but Young will more than likely have to take a big hit on wages at a new club, therefore less anxious to leave.

Lord TSC · 07-06-2014 12:34PM

We should also take on board the fact that there's been very, very few transfers among ANY Premier League team so far. A lot of teams are spinning their wheels currently, not just United, despite how many feel about what we're doing.

Post-WC, I think a lot of clubs will start doing a lot of business. Hopefully, we'll shift a few then.

bucketybuck · 07-06-2014 12:42PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

No. No, we didn't need that. We wanted that. Big difference.

Yes, yes, we did need that. No, no, this is not just some supporters desire to see a big name paraded in front of the cameras just because, there are very valid reasons why United could and should have been making sure their transfer business was completed early.

There are valid reasons why this hasn't happened, but that doesn't change the fact that it is far more need than it is want.

Mitch Connor · 07-06-2014 12:44PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Still think it's mad how many people don't seem to realise LVG probably doesn't give a **** that United fans want to win the treble next year by spending 200 million.

still think it is mad how people can come on this thread and act like that is what united fans are calling for.

Lord TSC · 07-06-2014 12:59PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yes, yes, we did need that. No, no, this is not just some supporters desire to see a big name paraded in front of the cameras just because, there are very valid reasons why United could and should have been making sure their transfer business was completed early.

There are valid reasons why this hasn't happened, but that doesn't change the fact that it is far more need than it is want.

Ok, so outline to me exactly why we needed it; what are he differences between signing someone two weeks ago verses two weeks from now?

Lord TSC · 07-06-2014 01:48PM

Reports that LVG is demanding changes to Carrington.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2651382/Louis-van-Gaal-orders-training-pitches-ripped-Dutch-boss-rings-changes-Old-Trafford.html

Wants the Desso Grass-Master system implemented straight away (same pitches that are already used at OT) and floodlights installed for afternoon winter training sessions.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 07-06-2014 01:53PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Reports that LVG is demanding changes to Carrington.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2651382/Louis-van-Gaal-orders-training-pitches-ripped-Dutch-boss-rings-changes-Old-Trafford.html

Wants the Desso Grass-Master system implemented straight away (same pitches that are already used at OT) and floodlights installed for afternoon winter training sessions.

Surely just relaying 1 pitch and floodlighting it will be enough before the season starts?

Mitch Connor · 07-06-2014 01:54PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Reports that LVG is demanding changes to Carrington.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2651382/Louis-van-Gaal-orders-training-pitches-ripped-Dutch-boss-rings-changes-Old-Trafford.html

Wants the Desso Grass-Master system implemented straight away (same pitches that are already used at OT) and floodlights installed for afternoon winter training sessions.

Floodlights make sense, I can see the club pushing back on the pitches though - we've only just installed some of them.

bucketybuck · 07-06-2014 02:16PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Ok, so outline to me exactly why we needed it; what are he differences between signing someone two weeks ago verses two weeks from now?

Well I'm not getting into a word parsing, gotcha situation which you seem to be angling for, and you know damn well that I am not talking about "two weeks ago verses two weeks from now" so you can stuff that bull****. :rolleyes:

But there are very valid reasons why United should have been making their transfer moves strong and making them early, the first of which is the simple scale of the changes needed. We do not need one or two players to improve the team, we need five or six to get back even close to where we were. Its difficult enough to make wholesale changes with the whole summer to do it in, it becomes exponentially more difficult the less time you have remaining. Fact is if it comes to the last month of the window and we don't have multiple players in then it won't happen in that last month. We will end up with one or two players and looking towards a very difficult season.

It was said multiple times in here back in January that we were leaving ourselves a lot of work to do transfer wise in the summer. That was then, but that work is still no closer to completion.

Another incredibly obvious problem is perception, not from us but from other players. We are a stumbling giant with huge issues to address and without any European football. We want the best players but are the best players going to come to us? Not as it stands, they see a team that isn't going to compete with City and isn't in the European cup. What would help massively is the signing of some marquee players to make us more attractive, if we had arranged a big signing and announced him early than we are no longer a club in turmoil but a club that had a bad season but was now heading in the right direction. Players are human, if they see that other big names are heading to United then that will affect their own decisions and their perception of the club. We could have presented ourselves as a strong confident club going places, but as yet we are still a club in turmoil going cap in hand to the likes of Fabregas.

Perception also applies to the existing staff. They ****ed up last season and they didn't do the work needed. Because of that they should have been working towards this window from months back, but if they were they have nothing to show for it. The pressure is only going to mount as time goes by and that leads to bad decisions, like buying Felliani, or trying to get a Cavani when he isn't needed. If they had signings in place and announced early then supporters, the media, other potential signings all give them a lot more benefit of the doubt.

Nothing I have written is particularly new but that was the point I made, there was definitely a need for United to make signings and make them early. Not a club threatening need but a need all the same, and it should have been done.

You seem to want to say that getting business done early would have been nice but not too important. My point simply is that it was important, it would have counted, and it was something we needed to do.

DM_7 · 07-06-2014 02:26PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Another incredibly obvious problem is perception, not from us but from other players. We are a stumbling giant with huge issues to address and without any European football. We want the best players but are the best players going to come to us? Not as it stands, they see a team that isn't going to compete with City and isn't in the European cup. What would help massively is the signing of some marquee players to make us more attractive, if we had arranged a big signing and announced him early than we are no longer a club in turmoil but a club that had a bad season but was now heading in the right direction. Players are human, if they see that other big names are heading to United then that will affect their own decisions and their perception of the club. We could have presented ourselves as a strong confident club going places, but as yet we are still a club in turmoil going cap in hand to the likes of Fabregas.
.

bucketybuck · 07-06-2014 02:41PM

DM-ICE wrote: »

Why the confusion? Do you not agree that the completed signings of people like Shaw or Carvalho would be a sign to the likes of Kroos and Vidal that we mean business?

DM_7 · 07-06-2014 02:51PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why the confusion? Do you not agree that the completed signings of people like Shaw or Carvalho would be a sign to the likes of Kroos and Vidal that we mean business?

There is the confusion, I didn't get how top players not wanting to join United could be fixed by signing marquee names early since I thought marquee names were top players.

As it goes I would expect removing Moyes and getting Louis van Gaal in would have shown United mean business this summer and made the club more attractive as he is a genuine marquee name in football.

Lord TSC · 07-06-2014 03:03PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why the confusion? Do you not agree that the completed signings of people like Shaw or Carvalho would be a sign to the likes of Kroos and Vidal that we mean business?

I don't think the signing of some kids will have any bearing on what Kroos or Vidal think of United tbh; if our history and wage packet can't convince them to join, the signing of Southampton's young left back who probably is completely unknown outside Ireland and England will do nothing to help...

Well I'm not getting into a word parsing, gotcha situation which you seem to be angling for, and you know damn well that I am not talking about "two weeks ago verses two weeks from now" so you can stuff that bull****.

Ah, here. I'm sorry if that offends you so. I was simply asking a genuine question, and will reword it if you want; you want to say we need deals done quick, but whats the efficiency when dealing with speed.

You answer the question in the rest of your post, so I'm sorry if my wording of the question offended you :rolleyes:

But there are very valid reasons why United should have been making their transfer moves strong and making them early, the first of which is the simple scale of the changes needed. We do not need one or two players to improve the team, we need five or six to get back even close to where we were. Its difficult enough to make wholesale changes with the whole summer to do it in, it becomes exponentially more difficult the less time you have remaining. Fact is if it comes to the last month of the window and we don't have multiple players in then it won't happen in that last month. We will end up with one or two players and looking towards a very difficult season.

I'd personally see no reason why we couldn't do multiple deals in a short amount of time. We have a large department presumably who work on multiple deals simultaneously; if the press are to be believed, there are 100 deals in the works right now :P

I agree scale needs to be examined and there's quite a bit of work to be done, but I think you're overestimating why that work will be hard. I don't see at all how time = quality in this scenario. I don't personally think there's a countdown where the closer we get to the deadline, the less money we have to spend or the harder it will be. Time will not increase difficulty.

Another incredibly obvious problem is perception, not from us but from other players. [...]

As mentioned above, the primary draws for players will be money and history, not how quickly we've fixed things. If we throw vasts amount of money at the players LVG wants, we'll get them; City, Chelsea, Monaco...if teams promise the world to players and back it up financially, they'll get the right type of player.

We're also only a few weeks into making a massive attempt to fix that negative perception by sacking our useless manager and appointing one with a massively impressive CV. A wide array of players and critics have praised that decision, and LVG is obviously a well-respected manager who has had big names talking highly of him.

Perception also applies to the existing staff. They ****ed up last season and they didn't do the work needed. [...]

"They" weren't even there last season; we're in the middle of an overhaul to the staff responsible for transfer decisions. Moyes and his team and his decisions are gone. "They", LVG and his backroom staff, haven't even got their offices set up yet, so at least give them a chance to do that before we start talking about how they've ****ed up.

Meanwhile, it also strikes me that LVG's perception is that United are PL winners and he intends to get us back up there. If there's one thing I adore about him, it's his perception of what the club should be expecting and his own ability to get us there.

Nothing I have written is particularly new but that was the point I made, there was definitely a need for United to make signings and make them early. Not a club threatening need but a need all the same, and it should have been done.

You seem to want to say that getting business done early would have been nice but not too important. My point simply is that it was important, it would have counted, and it was something we needed to do.

Agree there's a need for signings, but still see nothing to convince me that the signings were NEEDED quickly. We need to get the transfer window right, and I have a huge feeling that will involve LVG coming in full time, and starting work himself as well. It would have been phenomenal to get the business done quickly, but once it gets done, then I couldn't care less how quickly it all went.

Larry Wildman · 07-06-2014 03:47PM

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

No club would actually accept those terms come on you must be wiser than that...

so strootman plays for us for a year and near the end of year he destroys his knee or gets very gravely ill so roma are left with a crock and united had his services for 2 million

As others have pointed out, he wouldn't be playing for United - He'd be playing for Roma.

homerjay2005 · 07-06-2014 04:12PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'd personally see no reason why we couldn't do multiple deals in a short amount of time. We have a large department presumably who work on multiple deals simultaneously;

errm, its been a long time since we completed multiple big deals in a short space of time. there is no reason to suggest we can do it.

Lord TSC · 07-06-2014 04:25PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

errm, its been a long time since we completed multiple big deals in a short space of time. there is no reason to suggest we can do it.

Not having done something recently =/= not being able to do something.

Mitch Connor · 07-06-2014 04:53PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Not having done something recently =/= not being able to do something.

but the reason to believe we can't is evidence given by last summer. You are basing your opinion on nothing at all.

Woodward himself said that their negotiations with Rooney last summer hampered our abilities to do deals elsewhere, so clear based on what Woodward said United do indeed have issues with dealing with more than one high level player/agent at a time.

homerjay2005 · 07-06-2014 04:56PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Not having done something recently =/= not being able to do something.

thats one of the most baffling attempts at logic ive ever seen on this thread. you made a statement about seeing no reason we cant do something, ive given you one yet you still keep going with complete nonsense.

Lord TSC · 07-06-2014 05:19PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

but the reason to believe we can't is evidence given by last summer. You are basing your opinion on nothing at all.

Woodward himself said that their negotiations with Rooney last summer hampered our abilities to do deals elsewhere, so clear based on what Woodward said United do indeed have issues with dealing with more than one high level player/agent at a time.

Last summer was one window. In other years, we have always bought exactly what we needed to buy (and I'll expand here; "needed" refers to getting in what Fergie needed to win the league, not nessecarily what we needed for the future or in terms of "fixing the problems").

Last summer was bad, but there's no proof whatsoever to lead to the belief that every summer henceforth will be identical, just because 4 weeks in we have no one bought.

As for the Woodward thing, did he? Not being smart, but can I get a source there? I remember reading they spent time on it, and were surprised it didn't get more positive feedback when they held on to him, but I never remember "Woodward himself said that their negotiations with Rooney last summer hampered our abilities to do deals elsewhere". Any chance I can read that somewhere so I can amend my stance on how the Rooney situation affected our window?

Also, it's a good thing then that stumbling block won't exist this summer either

homerjay2005 wrote: »

thats one of the most baffling attempts at logic ive ever seen on this thread. you made a statement about seeing no reason we cant do something, ive given you one yet you still keep going with complete nonsense.

Fair enough. I personally think...

"We didn't do it last summer, ergo we are incapable of doing it"

...is far worse logic than...

"Just because we didn't do it last summer doesn't mean we are completely incapable of doing it at all."

The first feels rather sensationalist, trying to base the logic on an instance of failure in an attempt to build a picture of ineptitude.

Vic Vinegar · 07-06-2014 05:34PM

There's a few reports around of talks with Barca for Sanchez.

Would be very happy if we got him.

The_Kew_Tour · 07-06-2014 05:37PM

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

There's a few reports around of talks with Barca for Sanchez.

Would be very happy if we got him.

with Reus a non runner I be happy to get Sanchez now. we need a quality player with pace if we could

keane2097 · 07-06-2014 05:37PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

well for starters we cant win the treble next year.;)

You know what I meant you bolllllllllocks

Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

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