How bad are the Gardai and what do we do about it?

Einhard · 06-06-2014 11:23PM

This thread is only on page two, and already there's a few posts criticising the guards from people who admit they've had run ins with them, or something similar. Now, I realise that even the most perfectly innocent of people could be ensnared by a corrupt cop, but seriously, if your prelude to condenmnation of the guards involves mention of your previous experiences of them, maybe we'd all be better off if you took a long, hard look at yourself rather than the people who caught you doing whatever it was you were doing.

Seriously, I was never an angel, but I was never arrested by the guards. If you were, maybe, just maybe, it was your fault, and not theirs?

Temptamperu · 06-06-2014 11:23PM

Just this week too, me sister was in court and the gard told different times, different details and basically lied about stuff he even kinda downplayed what actually happened. But what can you do?

LETHAL LADY · 06-06-2014 11:25PM

Dont call me Shirley wrote: »

Relevance? Is it ok to lie in some trials and not others?

I'm not going to say for two reasons. A, I don't want the thread to get misdirected into no smoke without fire territory and B, haven't you heard big brother is watching?:eek:

I'm not looking for the exact details of the trial, just curious as to how you know he/she lied. Were you a witness to what happened originally?

dxhound2005 · 06-06-2014 11:26PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

Just this week too, me sister was in court and the gard told different times, different details and basically lied about stuff he even kinda downplayed what actually happened. But what can you do?

Get a solicitor.

Einhard · 06-06-2014 11:28PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

Just this week too, me sister was in court and the gard told different times, different details and basically lied about stuff he even kinda downplayed what actually happened. But what can you do?

Why was your sister in court? No offence, but I'm a tad cynical when people under criminal investigation complain about the guards.

Karl Stein · 06-06-2014 11:38PM

Einhard wrote: »

This thread is only on page two, and already there's a few posts criticising the guards from people who admit they've had run ins with them

The last time I had to deal with a Guard he was an ignorant bastard and I found it very hard to hold my tongue. My crime? Sitting in my car talking to a friend I'd just dropped home.

On the whole though I'd say I'd rather have to deal with the Gardai than any other police service in Europe.

Temptamperu · 06-06-2014 11:38PM

Einhard wrote: »

Why was your sister in court? No offence, but I'm a tad cynical when people under criminal investigation complain about the guards.

arson, not her, her house.

keith16 · 06-06-2014 11:41PM

I think the Police force in this country does a spectacular job considering:

- They are unarmed
- Not supported by the judiciary
- Incapable Senior Management
- Utterly dysfunctional supervisory entities
- Held in utter contempt by large sections of the public (who never have any dealings with them)
- A fundamental misunderstanding from that same public as to the actual function of the force
- Under-resourced

Thankfully I have had little dealings with them, but have always found them to be pleasant. There are much worse in Western Europe.

Dont call me Shirley · 06-06-2014 11:43PM

Einhard wrote: »

Seriously, I was never an angel, but I was never arrested by the guards. If you were, maybe, just maybe, it was your fault, and not theirs?

Never been arrested myself. Never been involved in criminal activity, just a regular concerned taxpayer. Not an angry young man or political radical either.

Lets throw a hypothetical situation out there that could affect any of us. Lets suppose you had a teenage child who was beaten up outside school or a disco and were still being seriously threatened by the perpetrator. Your child becomes anxious, depressed, perhaps even suicidal as a result.

You go to the gardai of course. What if the perpetrator or there parents had connections with the guards and could 'pull a stroke'? What if they were useful informants? What if they were dealers and if a garda didn't want to ruin a career defining bust because of your child? What if they had some evidence of garda corruption? What if they just weren't arsed because it's effort?

Here we have a hypothetical example where through no fault of our own we rely on a sound and honest police force to, not have great damage inflicted upon our family.

My belief is that in this hypothetical situation, if the well-being and safety of my family, in the slightest way, came in conflict with the self-interests of a guard or the gardai, i'd be pushed aside without the batting of an eyelid.

Einhard · 06-06-2014 11:45PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

The last time I had to deal with a Guard he was an ignorant bastard and I found it very hard to hold my tongue. My crime? Sitting in my car talking to a friend I'd just dropped home.

On the whole though I'd say I'd rather have to deal with the Gardai than any other police service in Europe.

Temptamperu wrote: »

arson, not her, her house.

Now that's fair enough, and I don't want to come across as questioning anyone who has an issue with the guards. There are assholes in every organisation, and maybe there are more assholes in AGS than in other police forces. I don't know.

However, I do know that neither I nor any of my friends have ever had a serious run in/encounter with the guards. And anyone I know that has, has been involved in some form of criminality. I know people who loudly proclaim their hatred of AGS, and their conviction that AGS is corrupt etc. The thing is, all of them have convictions for drug dealing, petty violence etc...

So when I see people condemn the guards, especially when mentioning their experiences with them, I tend to be a tad skeptical.

Dont call me Shirley · 06-06-2014 11:50PM

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

I'm not looking for the exact details of the trial, just curious as to how you know he/she lied. Were you a witness to what happened originally?

Yes. Sorry for not divulging further. Just wary of going into specifics.

Conmaicne Mara · 06-06-2014 11:51PM

Einhard wrote: »

So when I see people condemn the guards, especially when mentioning their experiences with them, I tend to be a tad skeptical.

I've never been arrested, cautioned or anything else either.

Canis Lupus · 06-06-2014 11:54PM

All I was doing was kicking wing mirrors off cars at 3am whilst blind drunk.... but the gardai are nothing but corrupt pigs in my dealings with them etc etc etc.

Dont call me Shirley · 06-06-2014 11:57PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

All I was doing was kicking wing mirrors off cars at 3am whilst blind drunk.... but the gardai are nothing but corrupt pigs in my dealings with them etc etc etc.

I was only doing 90 in a 50 zone. My mates a guard and I was late for work etc etc etc.

crockholm · 06-06-2014 11:59PM

IME about 75 % negative.Met far too many of them who thought that their Garda ID was a discount brochure

Baron Kurtz · 07-06-2014 12:00AM

minidazzler wrote: »

The first indication that someone probably shouldn't be a Garda, is that they want to be a Garda. It's a profession that breeds corruption.

Fierce lazy. Fierce lazy. Breeding. Corruption. Fierce lazy indeed. Those dem der jeeeerrrbssss...

keith16 · 07-06-2014 12:04AM

Dont call me Shirley wrote: »

Lets throw a hypothetical situation out there....

You go to the gardai of course. What if the perpetrator or there parents had connections with the guards and could 'pull a stroke'? What if they were useful informants? What if they were dealers and if a garda didn't want to ruin a career defining bust because of your child? What if they had some evidence of garda corruption? What if they just weren't arsed because it's effort?

Here we have an example

What a load of absolute tosh. You start out by describing it as a hypothetical situation and by the end of your rambling it's an "example"?

GTFO.

Temptamperu · 07-06-2014 12:04AM

Einhard wrote: »

Now that's fair enough, and I don't want to come across as questioning anyone who has an issue with the guards. There are assholes in every organisation, and maybe there are more assholes in AGS than in other police forces. I don't know.

However, I do know that neither I nor any of my friends have ever had a serious run in/encounter with the guards. And anyone I know that has, has been involved in some form of criminality. I know people who loudly proclaim their hatred of AGS, and their conviction that AGS is corrupt etc. The thing is, all of them have convictions for drug dealing, petty violence etc...

So when I see people condemn the guards, especially when mentioning their experiences with them, I tend to be a tad skeptical.

Ive never had a problem with them either, I live in tallaght me whole life and have only really had this to go by, ive never even been searched. Its just he talked about the fire as like it was a little thing but the whole house was destroyed. The scum who did it lit it at 2 in the morning when me sister and nephew were in bed but the gard never mentioned that.

Dont call me Shirley · 07-06-2014 12:07AM

keith16 wrote: »

What a load of absolute tosh. You start out by describing it as a hypothetical situation and by the end of your rambling it's an "example"?

GTFO.

It's a hypothetical example??? Seriously, I thought that was quite explicit. And it's a very legitimate form of reasonable debate, surely?

major bill · 07-06-2014 12:07AM

Einhard wrote: »

This thread is only on page two, and already there's a few posts criticising the guards from people who admit they've had run ins with them, or something similar. Now, I realise that even the most perfectly innocent of people could be ensnared by a corrupt cop, but seriously, if your prelude to condenmnation of the guards involves mention of your previous experiences of them, maybe we'd all be better off if you took a long, hard look at yourself rather than the people who caught you doing whatever it was you were doing.

Seriously, I was never an angel, but I was never arrested by the guards. If you were, maybe, just maybe, it was your fault, and not theirs?

I had a very bad experience with them when I was 17 so my opinion was tainted for years, I was beaten up on my way home one night in an unprovoked attack, no fault of my own just in the wrong place at the wrong time, I managed to get away from my attacker (Much older and bigger) and run away, the gards drove by me and stopped, I thought thank god im safe, what happened next was shocking, I was told to get in the car and shut my mouth, When asked what i done I was told to shut up, apparently I knew what i did, I was driven at fast speed to a car that had been burnt out,

I pleaded my innocence on the journey to be told to shut my mouth, when pulled up along side the burnt out vehicle another Garda car lay parallel , my window was rolled down and a gard in the other car identified me as the thug in the stolen vehicle. I pleaded my innocence once more and eventually brought them to a house I had been in that night, It was only then when a witness said I was there all night did they accept my innocence and only then did they offer to take me to hospital (Which i refused) as my face was ina heap from the kicks to the head i received.

Imagine what would have happened if that had of went to court, I'd have been locked up for something I didn't do all because a Gard said I did it, My only crime that night was wearing a tracksuit whilst running away from a Psycho.

I got an apology off the station sergent the next day but the damage was done. I tried not to tar every gard in a bad light after that incident as out of the 3 gards in the car that night the 1 in the back was fairly sound, My only worry is that his attitude over time will become like the 2 ****ers in the front.

Thought I would share that story, I understand the job at hand is tough and can be very dangerous but far too many of them are out of touch with people in the community which does nothing for peoples trust in them.

coolemon · 07-06-2014 12:07AM

Dont call me Shirley wrote: »

I know that this issue has been covered to some degree on AH in the past but I saw something during the week that frankly really shocked me. I was in Court supporting a friend and in the middle of the trial a guard was called up to give evidence on a procedural issue. When called, he just bare faced out and out lied to the judge. In a way it was a relatively minor issue in the case but had he told the truth it could have been significant. Didn't effect the outcome from my perspective, as the side I was supporting was still successful but what struck me was just how everyday and normal it seemed to him. There was five or six of us there who knew he just told a whopper (and he knew we did), there was a colleague of his there who would also have known it wasn't the truth, and I suspect a few more of his colleagues who were around would also have known. Still up he got, put his hand on the bible and brazenly lied.

I have a three part question to the good folk of AH a) have you ever witnessed or known of Garda malpractice, corruption or dishonesty like this, if so please share (usual rules, no names etc) b) how much faith do you have in our Guards (see poll) and c) if things are as bad as I feel they are what the hell do we do about it???

I suppose I had buried my head in the sand a little in relation to all that has come out about the Gardai over the last few years but I have to say this really opened my eyes. I can see now how those things went on in West Cork, Donegal and with the whistleblowers when in my own back yard a guard can get up on the stand and lie in front of ten or so people who know he's lying without batting an eyelid.

A) Yes.

Zero faith. I think they are scum.

C) Nothing you can do. Try do something and you will know all about it. Your door will be kicked in one day out of the blue.

Unfortunately most people will never experience what you have experienced and therefore you will not be believed. (on here anyway).

suicide_circus · 07-06-2014 12:09AM

Piliger wrote: »

A handful of bad eggs but the vast majority are brilliant.

To say that the vast majority are brilliant is as much a departure from the truth as to say the vast majority are crap.
People can only really judge by their own interactions with the gardai, in my case this has been mediocre to poor.

Piliger · 07-06-2014 12:11AM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

All I was doing was kicking wing mirrors off cars at 3am whilst blind drunk.... but the gardai are nothing but corrupt pigs in my dealings with them etc etc etc.

Makes me celebrate and demand more corrupt pigs in that case. The more I read about the gardai here the more I love them.

Dont call me Shirley · 07-06-2014 12:18AM

major bill wrote: »

Thought I would share that story, I understand the job at hand is tough and can be very dangerous but far too many of them are out of touch with people in the community which does nothing for peoples trust in them.

Agreed, I think after my experiences with them I will be extremely wary of any interactions I have with them in the future. Even if they purported to be looking for help in solving a crime.

At the back of my mind I'd be thinking will they use what I say to help stitch some innocent up.

Shady Tady · 07-06-2014 12:19AM

I'm a garda and I have to say that the vast majority of people I encounter have are extremely positive towards gardai. There are many families out there that have had great experiences of garda going above and beyond the call of duty for them at desperate and tragic times. These people rarely ring joe Duffy or post on boards, you will rarely hear them and it's not that they don't appreciate what is done but their cases are very private and personal. A thread like this dosent bother me in the slightest, posters are anon and it is hard to tell from the drunk driver, paedofile, serial whinger and the decent person who had a genuine bad experiences and met an asshole of a garda. My experiece of drunk and drug fueled public is that they can feel disrespected when told to cop themselves on or when they end up in court. Joe public can be quite nasty to deal with, especially so during the Celtic tiger when every tom dick and Harry had attitude and an ego and bundles of money to spend on coke and alcohol!

conan_doyle · 07-06-2014 12:21AM

after all that has been revealed so far this year , i find it truly staggering that so many people can still trot out the line " vast majority are excellent - few bad apples etc "

you dont have to be a criminal or even a troublemaker to find yourself being victimised by members of AGS , all you need to do is be in dispute with someone who is well connected to the force

how willing guards are to act depends on two things

1. who is doing the complaining

2. who is being complained about

they are utterly political in how they go about their business

conan_doyle · 07-06-2014 12:23AM

Einhard wrote: »

This thread is only on page two, and already there's a few posts criticising the guards from people who admit they've had run ins with them, or something similar. Now, I realise that even the most perfectly innocent of people could be ensnared by a corrupt cop, but seriously, if your prelude to condenmnation of the guards involves mention of your previous experiences of them, maybe we'd all be better off if you took a long, hard look at yourself rather than the people who caught you doing whatever it was you were doing.

Seriously, I was never an angel, but I was never arrested by the guards. If you were, maybe, just maybe, it was your fault, and not theirs?

i was arrested three years ago for buying a can of coke and spent four hours in a cell , someone who has pull with the guards made a false allegation against me , myself and this individual had previous going back nearly ten years , he assaulted me on my own property , the guards decided not to present my medical evidence to the court and he won , i was assaulted on my own property yet lost a case

minidazzler · 07-06-2014 12:25AM

Shady Tady wrote: »

I'm a garda and I have to say that the vast majority of people I encounter have are extremely positive towards gardai. There are many families out there that have had great experiences of garda going above and beyond the call of duty for them at desperate and tragic times. These people rarely ring joe Duffy or post on boards, you will rarely hear them and it's not that they don't appreciate what is done but their cases are very private and personal. A thread like this dosent bother me in the slightest, posters are anon and it is hard to tell from the drunk driver, paedofile, serial whinger and the decent person who had a genuine bad experiences and met an asshole of a garda. My experiece of drunk and drug fueled public is that they can feel disrespected when told to cop themselves on or when they end up in court. Joe public can be quite nasty to deal with, especially so during the Celtic tiger when every tom dick and Harry had attitude and an ego and bundles of money to spend on coke and alcohol!

Your arguement is essentially... "I have friends, but you can't meet them because they live in......Lichtenstein, and won't be back til September..." :pac:

Little CuChulainn · 07-06-2014 12:26AM

Dont call me Shirley wrote: »

I know that this issue has been covered to some degree on AH in the past

Are you sure? It doesn't sound like a topic that would be raised in AH.

Shady Tady · 07-06-2014 12:31AM

minidazzler wrote: »

Your arguement is essentially... "I have friends, but you can't meet them because they live in......Lichtenstein, and won't be back til September..." :pac:

No! but try again

How bad are the Gardai and what do we do about it?

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