Property tax means you don't own your home.

kneemos · 06-06-2014 06:00AM

donegal__road wrote: »

I know a lady that bought some land 30 years ago. Her son built her a house on the land 25 years ago. She has a natural spring well as a water supply, and she owns a wind turbine which powers her house. She has an organic garden at the front of the house which she lives off.. why should she pay property tax? what services is she being provided with by the government?

What does she do on calm days in this supposed self sufficient property?

Arthur Beesley · 06-06-2014 07:30AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Property tax is money extorted from you by the state, you get absolutely nothing in return. Choose not to pay and you will be eventually be treated as a criminal, financially ruined, or even evicted, despite the fact you have done no harm to anyone. The system is contemptible and it is the essence of serfdom. If you have to pay a tax on your home then you simply don't own it anymore, you are paying rent to the state.

I'd love to be able to rent my place for a few hundred a year. Thanks dude.

comongethappy · 06-06-2014 07:41AM

Is all tax not extortion?

I don't understand why the Irish get horny over a modest property tax, when the RTE tax is far more galling.

06-06-2014 07:47AM

Teh roads!!!

dissed doc · 06-06-2014 07:50AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Property tax is money extorted from you by the state, you get absolutely nothing in return. Choose not to pay and you will be eventually be treated as a criminal, financially ruined, or even evicted, despite the fact you have done no harm to anyone. The system is contemptible and it is the essence of serfdom. If you have to pay a tax on your home then you simply don't own it anymore, you are paying rent to the state.

Most taxes the state takes in, goes back to people that represent their interests politically. You do own your home, but the problem is that for the services like road surfacing, landscaping, policing, etc., in your neighbourhood, the government prefers to give it to the 50% of the population that are on the dole, won't support themselves, etc.,. This is also why you pay so much for a GP visit, because 1 or 2 others are getting their visit for free with a medical card.

In principle, a property tax is a good idea, and particularly good if you are a home owner, but their is no link (in Ireland at any rate) between paying the taxes and getting it used equitably local to you.

ezra_pound · 06-06-2014 07:54AM

donegal__road wrote: »

I know a lady that bought some land 30 years ago. Her son built her a house on the land 25 years ago. She has a natural spring well as a water supply, and she owns a wind turbine which powers her house. She has an organic garden at the front of the house which she lives off.. why should she pay property tax? what services is she being provided with by the government?

What did the Romans ever do for us?

ezra_pound · 06-06-2014 07:56AM

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Is this not what road tax is for?

It's called motor tax and it doesn't nearly cover the costs of building and maintaining our roads.

professore · 06-06-2014 07:59AM

People are up in arms over property tax because it's the only direct tax they pay if they are on the dole - besides motor tax. If you're working the property tax is very little relative to all the other taxes you pay. The USC is far worse. The low threshold to paying the top rate of tax the same. Also if you're working in the private sector you don't have time to complain about being screwed 50 different ways. Just thinking that recently, no political party represents people like me. If your unemployed you have Sinn Fein, if you're permanent in a unionised job Labour. The others change with the wind.

Amirani · 06-06-2014 08:02AM

donegal__road wrote: »

I know a lady that bought some land 30 years ago. Her son built her a house on the land 25 years ago. She has a natural spring well as a water supply, and she owns a wind turbine which powers her house. She has an organic garden at the front of the house which she lives off.. why should she pay property tax? what services is she being provided with by the government?

Should the ultra rich not have to pay tax because they don't use the health service, education system and other state-funded services?

Of course not. People don't just pay tax for things they get a benefit from, that's not really the point of taxation.

Amirani · 06-06-2014 08:05AM

In response to the thread title, are Maltese people the only people in Europe that own their own homes? The overwhelming majority of countries have property taxes.

DoesNotCompute · 06-06-2014 08:17AM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Should the ultra rich not have to pay tax because they don't use the health service, education system and other state-funded services?

Of course not. People don't just pay tax for things they get a benefit from, that's not really the point of taxation.

Exactly. Property tax goes towards the services in a locality, for the benefi of everyone in that locality. People need to stop thinking so small and start seeing the bigger picture. The property tax that you pay isn't just for the benefit of you specifically, it's for the benefit of society at large.

To answer donegal_road's question, your auntie's property tax goes towards public parks, libraries, open spaces, planning and development, emergency services, street lighting, street maintenance, etc. even if she has never availed of these services, they still have to be paid for.

comongethappy · 06-06-2014 08:28AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

It's called motor tax and it doesn't nearly cover the costs of building and maintaining our roads.

The road budget for 2013 was just over €400 million

Motorists contribute over €4 bn in taxes.

No one gives proportionally more for receiving less than the motorist.

Banjoxed · 06-06-2014 08:31AM

In my experience in Ireland, "the rich" means someone earning ten grand more than the person using the phrase.

AnonoBoy · 06-06-2014 08:33AM

Water tax means you don't even own your bladder.

kneemos · 06-06-2014 08:44AM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Water tax means you don't even own your bladder.

Income tax means your wages don't even belong to you.

No Pants · 06-06-2014 08:48AM

comongethappy wrote: »

The road budget for 2013 was just over €400 million

Motorists contribute over €4 bn in taxes.

No one gives proportionally more for receiving less than the motorist.

And yet they keep paying it. It'll rise again.

jimgoose · 06-06-2014 08:50AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

No. If you own it then you should have the deeds.

I have the deeds, but there's a beefy mortgage yet on the thing.

jimgoose · 06-06-2014 08:51AM

There's tax on just about everything you buy. There's motor tax also. This doesn't mean you don't own your vehicle if you, well, own your vehicle.

Maphisto · 06-06-2014 08:56AM

donegal__road wrote: »

I know a lady that bought some land 30 years ago. Her son built her a house on the land 25 years ago. She has a natural spring well as a water supply, and she owns a wind turbine which powers her house. She has an organic garden at the front of the house which she lives off.. why should she pay property tax? what services is she being provided with by the government?

Even if she doesn't go out is she not concerned that the rest of the country is educated?

Is she not concerned that outside her fifedom, the country is policed against ruffians and scalliwags?

Is she not concerned that the country is defended in someway to stop some latterday vikings taking over Waterford, because they like it?

These services used to be paid for by private enterprise aka monarchs and nobility - would you go back to that?

Phoebas · 06-06-2014 08:56AM

donegal__road wrote: »

I know a lady that bought some land 30 years ago. Her son built her a house on the land 25 years ago. She has a natural spring well as a water supply, and she owns a wind turbine which powers her house. She has an organic garden at the front of the house which she lives off.. why should she pay property tax? what services is she being provided with by the government?

Can't she apply for the hermit's exemption?

Banjo String · 06-06-2014 08:58AM

USC is the greatest pain in my hole. Even Pat Rabbite described it as 'punitive'.

It fecking galls me seeing how much I get taken off me each month, and I don't really understand where or what meant to fund.

Frank Lee Midere · 06-06-2014 08:58AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Property tax is money extorted from you by the state, you get absolutely nothing in return. Choose not to pay and you will be eventually be treated as a criminal, financially ruined, or even evicted, despite the fact you have done no harm to anyone. The system is contemptible and it is the essence of serfdom. If you have to pay a tax on your home then you simply don't own it anymore, you are paying rent to the state.

All taxes are extorted from me by the state. I get as much back in property taxes as anything else.

No Pants · 06-06-2014 08:58AM

donegal__road wrote: »

I know a lady that bought some land 30 years ago. Her son built her a house on the land 25 years ago. She has a natural spring well as a water supply, and she owns a wind turbine which powers her house. She has an organic garden at the front of the house which she lives off.. why should she pay property tax? what services is she being provided with by the government?

You're right, she shouldn't have to pay anything as she's not getting any services at all from the state. Once this is confirmed, we can go to her house, murder her, steal her stuff and burn her house down with no consequences.

Geuze · 06-06-2014 09:00AM

Banjo String wrote: »

USC is the greatest pain in my hole. Even Pat Rabbite described it as 'punitive'.

It fecking galls me seeing how much I get taken off me each month, and I don't really understand where or what meant to fund.

The USC replaces two previous taxes.

It is, in fact, lower than those previous two taxes.

So most people pay less USC than what they paid in the two previous taxes.

Banjo String · 06-06-2014 09:02AM

Geuze wrote: »

The USC replaces two previous taxes.

It is, in fact, lower than those previous two taxes.

So most people pay less USC than what they paid in the two previous taxes.

What does it replace? Forgive my ignorance, southern Irish taxation is relatively new to me.

folan · 06-06-2014 09:06AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Property tax is money extorted from you by the state, you get absolutely nothing in return

I get nothing for tax.

Nothing for tax.

Nothing for tax.

****, best stop paying tax.

folan · 06-06-2014 09:07AM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

In response to the thread title, are Maltese people the only people in Europe that own their own homes? The overwhelming majority of countries have property taxes.

being Maltese is the dream!

Frank Lee Midere · 06-06-2014 09:10AM

donegal__road wrote: »

her son made a road leading down to the main road from her property.. it is not tarred, but it does the job.

Amenities and services such as?

Who is sitting at home all day?

Did he build the main road? In any case your argument is spurious. I didn't call the cops, ambulance, draw the dole or claim a pension this year so where's my rebate on my 52%?

No Pants · 06-06-2014 09:11AM

Geuze wrote: »

The USC replaces two previous taxes.

It is, in fact, lower than those previous two taxes.

So most people pay less USC than what they paid in the two previous taxes.

I don't think that's true. If I remember correctly, the health levy was 4% and the income levy was 2%. The USC for most people is 7% and the liability threshold is lower.

Valetta · 06-06-2014 09:11AM

folan wrote: »

being Maltese is the dream!

It's brilliant.

Property tax means you don't own your home.

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