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796 children buried in Septic Tank in Galway - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post

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Comments

  • #512
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Diarmaid Ferriter was on Newstalk talking about this.
    The mother and baby homes received 23 pounds per child per year. The places were overcrowded and disease was rife, they were underfunded with people in general society complaining about their money via local rates being used on these people and how they should receive less.
    Gastro enteritis was the biggest killer of children, overcrowding made the situation worse.
    In 1924, minister Burke in the government wrote to a bishop in Waterford asking for the church to set up mother and baby homes so the state could spend money on those who deserved it.
    In general society the death rate for children born outside of marriage was several times above those born within a marriage.
    He said a lot more but society didn't care about these people.


  • #513
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,316 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    jellyboy wrote: »
    the first 5 mins of each video explains the social history of the time




    Just watched the 2nd video there. I think there was similar experiments done in the Irish mental asylums as well. And like with the UK, when the mental asylums were shut down here, the lunatics were dumped onto the streets with the mentally unsound.


  • #514
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Diarmaid Ferriter was on Newstalk talking about this.
    The mother and baby homes received 23 pounds per child per year. The places were overcrowded and disease was rife, they were underfunded with people in general society complaining about their money via local rates being used on these people and how they should receive less.
    Gastro enteritis was the biggest killer of children, overcrowding made the situation worse.
    In 1924, minister Burke in the government wrote to a bishop in Waterford asking for the church to set up mother and baby homes so the state could spend money on those who deserved it.
    In general society the death rate for children born outside of marriage was several times above those born within a marriage.
    He said a lot more but society didn't care about these people.

    The catholic church is one of the richest organisations in the world. If homes were underfunded it was by choice.


  • #515
    same ol sh1te
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭same ol sh1te


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The catholic church is one of the richest organisations in the world. If homes were underfunded it was by choice.

    It's been reported that the homes weren't underfunded, the nuns received the average industrial wage for everyone in their care.


  • #516
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    same ol sh1te wrote: »
    It's been reported that the homes weren't underfunded, the nuns received the average industrial wage for everyone in their care.

    Well the nuns were murders so who dumped babies in human waste so it wouldn't surprise me that they were stealing money or lying about funding too.


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  • #517
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And a simple question back to you. If the State had done the very same job would they be being questioned and called to task? Of course they would!

    4 times the National average is an inordinate amount.

    I'll post this again

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90687662&postcount=790

    Lets not forget that your first intimation was that poverty could explain the difference (which I agree with in principle, poverty could easily push a mortality rate sky high). But certainly not in the cases seen here.

    These Homes (and by extension, their wards) were well funded relative to the Nation at the time, and so any poverty leading to death could only have been construed from within.

    Something tells me that if it was the State running these homes with a death rate that's four times the national average, Manach would lead the charge with regurgitated sophistry straight out of the bile factory that is the Iona Institute.


  • #518
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The catholic church is one of the richest organisations in the world. If homes were underfunded it was by choice.

    Where you are wrong here is that an religious order is a totally separate identity to the Catholic Church, and operate independently within the church.


  • #519
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Something tells me that if it was the State running these homes with a death rate that's four times the national average, Manach would lead the charge with regurgitated sophistry straight out of the bile factory that is the Iona Institute.

    David Quinn was also on Newstalk, he said an investigation into Tuam was not enough and all other mother and baby homes need to be investigated.


  • #520
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    The real issue here is the inaction of the extended families.

    And why where these extended families "inactive"? I can guess why - they believed that their daughters/nieces/sisters were "fallen" and in need of punishment. And who indoctrinated this belief into them? I'll give you a clue, it wasn't the local rabbi.


  • #521
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Where you are wrong here is that an religious order is a totally separate identity to the Catholic Church, and operate independently within the church.

    Ah yes. The whole we are one strong group for one thing and the next time its oh we have nothing to do with each other.
    It can't be both.


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  • #522
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    A link to the email addresses of all TD's

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=25796&CatID=138

    Open the excel spread sheet and hilight the column with the email addresses. Ope n an email and paste them into the address bar

    Have sent this to them all to see if any will take it up.
    To whom it may concern.

    In light of the recent revelations about the possible burial of up to 800 small children’s bodies in a sewage tank on the grounds of the old Bon Secours home I would like an explanation as to why the Gardai are refusing to investigate this. As a tax paying citizen of Ireland I am hereby making a report of a possible crime that may have happened on the site of this home and wish it to be investigated. The Gardai have the details of this site and know exactly where the sewage tank is located so it will not take a lot of time or manpower to investigate this.

    Many regards,

    Bumper234


  • #523
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Ah yes. The whole we are one strong group for one thing and the next time its oh we have nothing to do with each other.
    It can't be both.

    Is a private school the same as a public school even if both are teaching the national curriculum .
    The order is like a private school in a public church.


  • #524
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,738 ✭✭✭✭josip


    The Garda say they are still investigating.
    Good Afternoon.

    Thank you for your email. The grounds in Tuam have being surveyed and bones were found, they are historical burials going back to Famine times, there is no suggestion of any impropriety . Also there is no confirmation from any source that there are between 750 and 800 bodies present.

    Investigations are continuing.

    Kind Regards.


  • #525
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Gives a little bit of idea of what went on

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/you-became-so-frightened-eventually-you-toed-the-line-271018.html
    Dr Deeny had travelled to the Sacred Heart institution when he noticed that in the previous years, 100 out of the 180 babies born there had died.
    “It was a beautiful institution, built onto a lovely old house just before the war, and seemed to be well run and spotlessly clean”.
    “I marched up and down and around about and could not make out what was wrong; at last I took a notion and stripped all the babies and ....examined them. Every baby had some purulent infection of the skin and all had green diahorrea carefully covered up.” he said.



    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/you-became-so-frightened-eventually-you-toed-the-line-271018.html





    .


  • #526
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    And already have a reply from Mary Mitchell O'Conner
    Dear Bumper234

    Thank you for getting in touch on this very sensitive issue.
    I too have been shocked and appalled by the revelations to emerge in recent days about the deaths of children from the Tuam baby home, and as a Tuam native, I find them particularly upsetting.
    Let me assure you that the Government is not shying away from this issue; rather it is considering what is the best course of action from this point.
    As the newly appointed Minister for Children, Charlie Flanagan TD, said yesterday, these revelations are a shocking reminder of a darker past in this country.
    The Government is trying to establish the facts with a view towards ensuring that we can get to the bottom of this harrowing issue. A number of Government departments are now working together to examine these matters, and Minister Flanagan has said he expects a report to be completed in the coming weeks on how we should proceed.
    I will certainly bring your views to the attention of the Taoiseach, who as you may be aware is currently on a trade mission to the United States.


    Mary Mitchell O'Connor TD

    My reply

    Mary,


    Thank you for your prompt reply. May I point you in the direction of just two discussions happening at the moment on Boards.ie where you will get an idea of the outrage around the country and indeed internationally over this.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057220713

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057223144

    Many regards,

    Bumper234


  • #527
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    denhaagenite wrote: »
    My siblings and I were all born in the Bons Secours maternity hospital in Cork. Luckily this unit was closed down when CUH opened their maternity wing. Worth mentioning aswell that these hospitals are all private.

    Why luckily?


  • #528
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,231 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    snaphook wrote: »
    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/06/05/there-is-no-garda-investigation/

    Are the Gardai covering their own asses by not investigating?

    I think it's incompetence on their part. There's a famine grave not far from the the other one. I'd say they're mixing them up.

    It'd take some gobshite to believe that a concrete septic tank was in any way a 'famine grave'.

    Whoever came out with that statement should be fired for stupidity alone.


  • #529
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Where you are wrong here is that an religious order is a totally separate identity to the Catholic Church, and operate independently within the church.

    Who you have failed to condemn. 800 babies have been put in a septic tank and you are calling posters on their semantics and attacking posters for criticising nuns. Absolutely sickening.


  • #530
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    bumper234 wrote: »
    And already have a reply from Mary Mitchell O'Conner



    My reply

    Mary,


    Thank you for your prompt reply. May I point you in the direction of just two discussions happening at the moment on Boards.ie where you will get an idea of the outrage around the country and indeed internationally over this.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057220713

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057223144

    Many regards,

    Bumper234

    Fair play on the timely response.

    Watch this space.


  • #531
    padd b1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,852 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I posted this in the other thread

    Do you even know what the role of the Garda Press Office is???



    Here's a clue....


    It's not dealing with reports of potential crimes that have been 'e-mailed' in!


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  • #532
    denhaagenite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    jank wrote: »
    Why luckily?

    Because a religious order in my belief should not be running a hospital (for profit and nothing else), and should not be allowed to have any control over children.Add to that they have a fairly substantial history of legal actions being taken against them.


  • #533
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    800 hundred babies dead in a septic tank and people here are still defending the nuns. Nothing has changed I see.


  • #534
    Dennis Aggressive Luck
    Posts: 0 ✭ Dennis Aggressive Luck


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Diarmaid Ferriter was on Newstalk talking about this.
    The mother and baby homes received 23 pounds per child per year. The places were overcrowded and disease was rife, they were underfunded with people in general society complaining about their money via local rates being used on these people and how they should receive less.
    Gastro enteritis was the biggest killer of children, overcrowding made the situation worse.
    In 1924, minister Burke in the government wrote to a bishop in Waterford asking for the church to set up mother and baby homes so the state could spend money on those who deserved it.
    In general society the death rate for children born outside of marriage was several times above those born within a marriage.
    He said a lot more but society didn't care about these people.

    Does this compute?

    The second notion requires some citation. The previously posted statistics comparing "Legitimate" and "Illegitimate" mortality rates make zero disconnect between those "Illegitimate" children in or out of care.

    Can an out of sample citation be found? Showing that "Illegitimate" children outside the Homes were orders of magnitude more mortal than the National Average?


  • #535
    padd b1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,852 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Fair play on the timely response.

    Watch this space.

    I'd say shes driving down the steps of Leinster house as I type to deal with this.


  • #536
    Knasher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Knasher


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Where you are wrong here is that an religious order is a totally separate identity to the Catholic Church, and operate independently within the church.
    Was Bessborough similarly independent? Because when they were shut down they got the dean of cork involved, then their bishop, and then the papel nuncio (who thankfully did the right thing). As a "totally separate" organisation, they seem strangely reliant on the hierarchy of the Irish RCC.


  • #537
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mass murder, that's what it is.

    Just shows the lunatics that had so much control back a few decades ago.

    The sooner that Church loses control of the countries schools the better. They shouldn't have power over anything bar their own matters, and schooling kids certaintly isn't one of them.


  • #538
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I'd say shes driving down the steps of Leinster house as I type to deal with this.

    Oh, what a Christian response from you.

    Considering the revelations of the horrors the RCC has inflicted upon this country, I'm not being sarcastic.


  • #539
    denhaagenite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    My email:
    wrote:
    To whom it may concern.

    In light of the recent revelations about the possible burial of up to 800 small children’s bodies in a sewage tank on the grounds of the old Bon Secours home I would like an explanation as to why the Gardai are refusing to investigate this. I am hereby making a report of a possible crime that may have happened on the site of this home and wish it to be investigated. The Gardai have the details of this site and know exactly where the sewage tank is located so it will not take a lot of time or manpower to investigate this.


    In addition to this, I would like to see an investigation into any other sites that may be of note. I believe that this is the only way to pay our respects to the people that were made to suffer (also due to the complicit nature of our ancestors/ relatives). I believe that Ireland now holds a unique opportunity to lead a Europe wide, perhaps worldwide, investigation into the atrocities committed in the name of the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church which may allow us to move forward as a people.


    The public apology to the victims of the Mother and Baby homes from the Taoiseach Enda Kenny last year was both moving and sincere, and the payment of reparations is commendable, however the Vatican and the Pope had a control over Ireland that was only comparable to British Rule and systematic starvation and genocide of the Irish people during famine times. We need to demand apologies and reparations from them to all the victims of the blight on our country that has been the Roman Catholic Church.

    Many regards

    denhaagenite


  • #540
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    josip wrote: »
    The Garda say they are still investigating.
    No need to worry further then.
    Our gallant Plods are on the case.

    http://www.newstalk.ie/player/home/B...a_full_inquiry


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  • #541
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    I don't see why people are getting so outraged at this, awful thing to happen but what else could have been done and it being so long ago what's the point in an investigation


This discussion has been closed.
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