796 children buried in Septic Tank in Galway - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post

iDave wrote: »

Just so I'm clear on this and not blinded by the emotion of it but can someone confirm if the Catholic Church or a Catholic institution is directly responsible for these deaths? Is there any other scenario that could absolve the church?

The thing is we don't know the truth, we don't know how they died, all we know is where their bodies were put.
A lot of them may have died from disease and others neglect, the thing is we don't now and blaming the church as a whole is not the right way to approach it either.
An investigation would be the best way forward.

RobertKK wrote: »

The thing is we don't know the truth, we don't know how they died, all we know is where their bodies were put.
A lot of them may have died from disease and others neglect, the thing is we don't now and blaming the church as a whole is not the right way to approach it either.
An investigation would be the best way forward.

Do you think the various orders will co-operate fully with such an investigation, based on how they have worked with previous investigations?

Well the survivors of the golden gate orphanage and other hell holes detailed nuns beating baby's to a pulp there many times over the years.

Queen-Mise wrote: »

What I wonder about this.

The mothers of a lot of these children are still alive. These children have brothers and sisters alive.

Have the mothers of these children filled in the form for the Adoption Register looking to get in contact with their children, not knowing they were dead?


Absolutely horrific.

Surely they could have expected some of them could die?

I mean both my grandmothers are now dead, but both had children during the period in question. Both lost children, one son died at 4 years of age, another died from pneumonia at 16 years of age in hospital.
The thing is it would have been unusual if children had not died back in that time, no vaccines, no medicine comparable to today and a poorer health system.

RobertKK wrote: »

Surely they could have expected some of them could die?

I mean both my grandmothers are now dead, but both had children during the period in question. Both lost children, one son died at 4 years of age, another died from pneumonia at 16 years of age in hospital.
The thing is it would have been unusual if children had not died back in that time, no vaccines, no medicine comparable to today and a poorer health system.

I'm sure that is always in the back of their mind but its the not knowing that is the killer for these women, at least if you know your child died you have closure. The worst thing is that some of these women or their families are waiting for a phone call or letter that is never going to arrive. The mental stress of that is horrific.

RobertKK wrote: »

The thing is we don't know the truth, we don't know how they died, all we know is where their bodies were put.
A lot of them may have died from disease and others neglect, the thing is we don't now and blaming the church as a whole is not the right way to approach it either.
An investigation would be the best way forward.

I think after seeing all the crimes committed by the church over the years, and now this, we can easily blame the church as a whole. I've known many good priests over the years, but that doesn't mean the institution isn't corrupt.

The simple fact that up to 800 bodies were dumped in a septic tank is bad enough.

personally i want to see a full exhumation as they do with mass graves during war crimes.
each body needs an autopsy and then each body should be buried separately.
Any remaining staff from back then should be charged with neglect and possibly manslaughter/murder.
Finally the church should be held responsible and should pay reparations. Maybe they could give the land that schools are on to the state. We can't trust an organisation with that history with the education of children. I'm not saying they shouldn't be involved with religious education, but it should be after school hours.

Reformed Character wrote: »

The mortality rate in these "homes" in 1943 was 300% higher than the recorded national average.

Humans are mammals, I am just thinking from a point of disease and the spread of disease and my experience from other mammals - we can get some of the same diseases.
If they had bad housing (probably only got electricity and running water towards the end of that period in question) and overcrowded, it would have helped the spread of certain diseases - this would give a marked increase above the national average - you would have people vunerable to disease housed too closely and I have seen it with viral pneumonia how it can spread quickly through a group.
Measles would be a disaster as would TB.

Buried in a septic tank though, that is really what takes the biscuit, until we know excluding disease, how many of the 796 were from unnatural deaths.

RobertKK wrote: »

Surely they could have expected some of them could die?

I mean both my grandmothers are now dead, but both had children during the period in question. Both lost children, one son died at 4 years of age, another died from pneumonia at 16 years of age in hospital.
The thing is it would have been unusual if children had not died back in that time, no vaccines, no medicine comparable to today and a poorer health system.

Were your grandmothers' children put in a septic tank after they died?

josip wrote: »

Were your grandmothers' children put in a septic tank after they died?

What kind of question is that?

They were buried in the family plot and I said already - Buried in a septic tank though, that is really what takes the biscuit.

RobertKK wrote: »

Humans are mammals, I am just thinking from a point of disease and the spread of disease and my experience from other mammals - we can get some of the same diseases.
If they had bad housing (probably only got electricity and running water towards the end of that period in question) and overcrowded, it would have helped the spread of certain diseases - this would give a marked increase above the national average - you would have people vunerable to disease housed too closely and I have seen it with viral pneumonia how it can spread quickly through a group.
Measles would be a disaster as would TB.

Buried in a septic tank though, that is really what takes the biscuit, until we know excluding disease, how many of the 796 were from unnatural deaths.

"humans are mammals" is what did it for me.

800 babies are dead and this post completely trivialises it. The most unchristian thing I have read in a long time.

RobertKK wrote: »

Humans are mammals, I am just thinking from a point of disease and the spread of disease and my experience from other mammals - we can get some of the same diseases.
If they had bad housing (probably only got electricity and running water towards the end of that period in question) and overcrowded, it would have helped the spread of certain diseases - this would give a marked increase above the national average - you would have people vunerable to disease housed too closely and I have seen it with viral pneumonia how it can spread quickly through a group.
Measles would be a disaster as would TB.

Buried in a septic tank though, that is really what takes the biscuit, until we know excluding disease, how many of the 796 were from unnatural deaths.

Sure back in those days that was true of private houses too, huge families, no sanitation, poor hygiene but on a smaller scale of course.

The like-for-like comparison so would be other institutions of similar scale and did they end up with 800 babies in a septic tank?

Colser wrote: »

Allowing for the above I would expect that the % rate should be the other way around and that deaths in the family homes should have been at the higher rate. Dont forget that the religius homes would have had much better facilities and plenty of cheap "help" to keep them clean.

The thing though is you can have a clean home, it doesn't prevent disease, a child rooting in the dirt outside is far more likely to be healthier than a child who is given antibacterials to clean their hands all the time and told not to get their hands dirty.

Family homes should be better, the high concentration of children wouldn't have helped. I don't want to labour on that point as we don't know how many deaths were unnatural.