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796 children buried in Septic Tank in Galway - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post

24567…66

Comments

  • #32
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The thing I don't understand is if the children were baptised , and presumed they were as they were not babies who were born dead,... according to the rules of the church they should have been buried in concentrated ground a.k.a a grave yard so how come that did not happen? the nuns running the home must have known this.

    We don't know with any certainty that they were born dead, they may well have been murdered because they were born with mental of physical disabilities and thus were not fit for sale to Americans, which was the real business of these place, baby selling!


  • #33
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Is there a tax paid on that septic tank? Has it been inspected by the local authority for compliance etc etc...

    What other scandals are due to come out? Bishop Casey looks like a cherubic angel compared to all that has emerged in the last 20 years.


  • #34
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,910 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The thing I don't understand is if the children were baptised , and presumed they were as they were not babies who were born dead,... according to the rules of the church they should have been buried in concentrated ground a.k.a a grave yard so how come that did not happen? the nuns running the home must have known this.

    It would cost.

    Can't understand why there is any debate over an investigation,surely it's a given.You discover a mass grave of all things an investigation starts immediately surely to God?


  • #35
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The thing I don't understand is if the children were baptised , and presumed they were as they were not babies who were born dead,... according to the rules of the church they should have been buried in concentrated ground a.k.a a grave yard so how come that did not happen? the nuns running the home must have known this.

    One of the bodies is of a 9 year old boy.


  • #36
    Plazaman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭Plazaman


    Don't get me wrong, this story is tragic beyond belief and I'm no fan of the Church but to lay the blame solely at their feet is letting others off the hook. The State was equally to blame and many girls were sent to these workhouses through the courts and guards. In some cases their own families turned them in because of the shame their pregnancy would bring on the family.

    It was the thinking at the time and thankfully we have matured as a nation since then on that and a lot of issues. What is an enquiry going to turn up that we don't already know? The Catholic Church is already in decline, the only thing I'd worry about is what would take it's place?


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  • #37
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,246 ✭✭✭Daith


    Plazaman wrote: »
    The Catholic Church is already in decline

    Yet they seem to think they are very much relevant when it comes to social issues and get quite a bit of air time to show it.

    An investigation is needed to find the truth. It won't affect the past but might affect the present and future.


  • #38
    diveout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 746 ✭✭✭diveout


    Plazaman wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, this story is tragic beyond belief and I'm no fan of the Church but to lay the blame solely at their feet is letting others off the hook. The State was equally to blame and many girls were sent to these workhouses through the courts and guards. In some cases their own families turned them in because of the shame their pregnancy would bring on the family.

    It was the thinking at the time and thankfully we have matured as a nation since then on that and a lot of issues. What is an enquiry going to turn up that we don't already know? The Catholic Church is already in decline, the only thing I'd worry about is what would take it's place?

    They are still running the schools. That is not enough of a decline in power. Hearts and minds....


  • #39
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Plazaman wrote: »
    In some cases their own families turned them in because of the shame their pregnancy would bring on the family.

    That happened in Communist Russia and Nazi Germany back then too.

    Ireland version :

    Unmarried mothers - shameful

    Support Unmarried mothers - shame on you

    The whole purpose behind making the Unmarried Mothers shameful was to fuel the money-making death camp

    Produce saleable baby - sell baby

    Produce unsaleable baby - leave it starve to death

    They were de-humanised and turned into a source of profit

    .


  • #40
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Reformed Character wrote: »
    We don't know with any certainty that they were born dead, they may well have been murdered because they were born with mental of physical disabilities and thus were not fit for sale to Americans, which was the real business of these place, baby selling!

    They were aged, IIRC, between 2 days and 6 years, so certainly a lot of them would not have been stillborn.

    The attitude towards these mothers and children is even more mind boggling when you think that the person they worship, Jesus, was the bastard child of an unmarried teenager.


  • #41
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    You would be amazed by the people trying to downplay the churches involvement in this. .
    Not really:
    Plazaman wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, this story is tragic beyond belief and I'm no fan of the Church but to lay the blame solely at their feet is letting others off the hook. The State was equally to blame and many girls were sent to these workhouses through the courts and guards. In some cases their own families turned them in because of the shame their pregnancy would bring on the family.

    It was the thinking at the time and thankfully we have matured as a nation since then on that and a lot of issues. What is an enquiry going to turn up that we don't already know? The Catholic Church is already in decline, the only thing I'd worry about is what would take it's place?

    Here we go!


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  • #42
    Chattastrophe!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    Absolute scum.

    The terrifying thing is that, with the sheer number of children involved, it wasn't just one psychotic person acting alone. I imagine there must have been several involved.

    Dumping a baby into a mass grave would psychologically scar me for life. F*ck sake. No. My life wouldn't even be worth living after doing such a thing.

    And yet loads of people did it? Over the course of several years? And in the name of the Catholic church, that's how they justified it? More than one person thought that this was OK. They actually took a small dead baby (were the babies even dead at the time? And if so, by what means?) and threw them into a septic tank? And they could live with themselves?

    These people educate our children?

    No. It's time to take a stand. This is horrific.


  • #43
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    The catholic church were breeding gods army of brawlers orphans and bastards here between the laundries and industrial schools because they were able to claim big state handouts but once you reached 16 for boys you were füçked out on the street with no proper education, some 2nd hand clothes and told to be on your way.

    They wanted poor ignorant people to have the same large families as their parents had to keep their slave houses and money making orphanages and industrial schools with a steady supply of poor illiterate bastards and waifs and strays.

    Once in their care there was no care at all, you were just a number and they made sure you knew this. The most wicked and heinous crimes against children went unreported and perpetrators were often moved around into other positions where committing further offences was easier.

    The response from the church has always been and is still "we report to a higher authority" meaning your laws are not our laws, offences committed under state laws do not carry the same weight when viewed under canon law where raping children gets you moved to a new parish with a new supply of fresh boys and girls, or moved out to the missions where the poor savages wouldn't have the language to explain what the good brother or priest was doing.


  • #44
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,036 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Catholic Ireland drove women who fell pregnant out of wedlock into catholic church run institutions where the women were enslaved and the babies malnourished and neglected and left to die at a rate that was more than twice the normal infant mortality rate in Ireland.
    These dead babies were then dumped into an unmarked grave in an old sceptic tank over a 40 year period and sealed in concrete
    unless they were strong and healthy and looked like they might not die...in which case they were "given" to americans for a donation.


  • #45
    diveout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 746 ✭✭✭diveout


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    The catholic church were breeding gods army of brawlers orphans and bastards here between the laundries and industrial schools because they were able to claim big state handouts but once you reached 16 for boys you were füçked out on the street with no proper education, some 2nd hand clothes and told to be on your way.

    They wanted poor ignorant people to have the same large families as their parents had to keep their slave houses and money making orphanages and industrial schools with a steady supply of poor illiterate bastards and waifs and strays.

    Once in their care there was no care at all, you were just a number and they made sure you knew this. The most wicked and heinous crimes against children went unreported and perpetrators were often moved around into other positions where committing further offences was easier.

    The response from the church has always been and is still "we report to a higher authority" meaning your laws are not our laws, offences committed under state laws do not carry the same weight when viewed under canon law where raping children gets you moved to a new parish with a new supply of fresh boys and girls, or moved out to the missions where the poor savages wouldn't have the language to explain what the good brother or priest was doing.

    Amazing how evil you can be when God is on your side.


  • #46
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Bastard children of unwed mothers were not baptized back then.

    My sister was born in the late 70's. Because my dad had divorced and remarried, most priests refused to baptise her. She was two or three before she got baptised.


  • #47
    Umadbrah?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 164 ✭✭Umadbrah?


    Chattastrophe! wrote: »
    They actually took a small dead baby (were the babies even dead at the time? And if so, by what means?) and threw them into a septic tank? And they could live with themselves?

    Yeah it' actually disturbing can you imagine the slight and smell etc. What sane person would do that?


  • #48
    snaphook
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭snaphook


    This is one of the most significant discoveries in the history of the state.

    Kudos to historian Catherine Corless on her work here.
    It is our national holocaust.


  • #49
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    Reformed Character wrote: »
    We don't know with any certainty that they were born dead, they may well have been murdered because they were born with mental of physical disabilities

    Steady on. I'm all for moral outrage, but lets not just make up stuff! There's enough horrible acts in this story without haphazardly throwing accusations of murder around.
    Reformed Character wrote: »
    sale to Americans, which was the real business of these place, baby selling!

    Sadly, I have no doubt that this is true :(
    Plazaman wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, this story is tragic beyond belief and I'm no fan of the Church but to lay the blame solely at their feet is letting others off the hook. The State was equally to blame and many girls were sent to these workhouses through the courts and guards.

    True. Without trying to dilute or distract blame from the RCC, the state basically enabled their subjugation of society.
    Plazaman wrote: »
    In some cases their own families turned them in because of the shame their pregnancy would bring on the family.

    All part of that subjugation and control.
    Can't understand why there is any debate over an investigation,surely it's a given.You discover a mass grave of all things an investigation starts immediately surely to God?

    Is there a debate? I really don't see how one could object in any way to one.


  • #50
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    If anyone missed it here it the petition started here on boards yesterday calling for an investigation

    https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Frances_Fitzgerald_Irish_Minister_for_Justice_and_Equality_A_full_Gardai_investigation_into_the_mass_grave_in_Tuam_Co_Ga/


  • #51
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,246 ✭✭✭Daith


    snaphook wrote: »
    This is one of the most significant discoveries in the history of the state.

    Kudos to historian Catherine Corless on her work here.
    It is our national holocaust.

    And fair play to our national broadcasters and media for highlighting this story. Right? :(


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  • #52
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    There was international outrage & a UN investigation into mass graves from the Bosnia/Serb conflict.I can't see why this isn't dissimilar,800 kids dumped into a septic tank.
    The Nuns got well paid for the 'care':rolleyes: of these kids and there mothers but it just seemed to be a death camp for some.

    I get the feeling that religious orders in this country were used as dumping grounds for deviants by families back in the day,if a son or daughter were deemed as 'odd' they joined the priesthood or a convent to keep them out of sight & mind while those in the community applauded the family for having a son or daughter as a nun or priest,the likes of this scandal are sadly the outcome of all this.


  • #53
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    Steady on. I'm all for moral outrage, but lets not just make up stuff! There's enough horrible acts in this story without haphazardly throwing accusations of murder around.

    .

    Twice the mortality of the child mortality rate for the rest of society, children up six dying?
    It is very possible that murder was committed, which is all I said, possible.
    There are no made up accusations being made!


  • #54
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    The Roman Catholic Church must be eradicated from this land. Murdering Bastard$.


  • #55
    jandm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 90 ✭✭jandm


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Bastard children of unwed mothers were not baptized back then.

    I was baptised !


  • #56
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    For such a small country we have a shameful past, mostly to do with the Catholic church.


  • #57
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,039 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Daith wrote: »
    And fair play to our national broadcasters and media for highlighting this story. Right? :(

    It shows how the tentacles of the catholic church are still wrapped tight around some media outlets in this country


  • #58
    obezyana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭obezyana


    Just had a look on the RTE website no mention of anything about this story???????


  • #59
    Seedy Arling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭Seedy Arling


    obezyana wrote: »
    Just had a look on the RTE website no mention of anything about this story???????

    There's a brief mention in the Irish Times and Independent.ie is obsessed with some dude filming people taking a dump.

    What am i missing here? :confused:


  • #60
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    It really is shameful.

    How Irish people could have treated their own like this. What parent could have sent a daughter to places like this. Was the shame of having an illegitimate grand child worth the guilt I hope they felt/feel for aiding and abetting some woeful and inhumane acts.


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  • #61
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    obezyana wrote: »
    Just had a look on the RTE website no mention of anything about this story???????

    It's nuts that we need to have US newspapers break stories like this. I like to think that RTE does it's best with it's limited resources, but events like this and pantigate show how quickly it'll crumple when faced with catholic right wingers.


This discussion has been closed.
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