Season 4, Episode 8 - 'The Mountain and the Viper', HAVE NOT read the books

OneOfThem Stumbled · 03-06-2014 10:35AM

Some people here might like a reading of the text version for comparison. It's largely the same, but longer and with more detail. The narrator's attempt at the Dornish accent might take some getting used to however. There are no spoliers.

Joeface · 03-06-2014 10:40AM

////////sigh

Game of thrones ....Game of Closed caskets coffins more like .
I was fairly ill for awhile after last nights ep, No one is safe , Tyrion death seems inevitable and I would hate for it to happen I am sure there are plenty more characters with the verbal skills of Tyrion to be added, and they will die too. Winter is coming after all and no one survives winter

f**kin show kills leaves you empty and hungry for more all at the same time.

Links234 · 03-06-2014 11:02AM

Also, a few people are wondering if the Mountain is getting up again? Anyone else willing to bet with the sheer amount of signposting that goes on in this show (they practically told us how it was going down episodes in advance) that

all the talk of Oberyn having a way with poisons wasn't just a red herring for Joffrey's murder and that Gregor Clegane was dead the moment he landed the first blow?

*Spoilered in case I'm right

Also, if I am right,

It makes Oberyn's death all the more vexing, because he had assured his victory

coolabula · 03-06-2014 11:13AM

I thought it was a brilliant episode, I watched it alone and was screaming at the TV, poor Oberyn, it was gruesome.

It did get me thinking though, we know there is a theme of bad guys winning and good guys losing but maybe its because the bad guys are looking forward; Twyin for example and sending the pardon letter, he is looking to the future and preserving his family name. Robb Stark was looking for revenge for his Father, Oberyn for his sister and look how they ended up.
Maybe GRRM is trying to tell us all to look forward and stop living in the past

FortuneChip · 03-06-2014 11:14AM

Links234 wrote: »

Also, a few people are wondering if the Mountain is getting up again? Anyone else willing to bet with the sheer amount of signposting that goes on in this show (they practically told us how it was going down episodes in advance) that
all the talk of Oberyn having a way with poisons wasn't just a red herring for Joffrey's murder and that Gregor Clegane was dead the moment he landed the first blow?

*Spoilered in case I'm right

I don't think the spoiler is needed, it's decent speculation based on what we've seen and heard in the show; i.e fair game.

I'd argue though, why would he use poison?
If he uses a poison, it shows a lack of faith in his own ability to best the Mountain in the duel. And as the Mountain was only one of the men he was seeking revenge on, it wouldn't really give him much satisfaction to think "Yeah, he got me, but in a week's time... oh boy will I get him".

His pre-occupation with having Gregor confirm who gave the order proves that while the Mountain was first on his list, he wasn't on the top of it.

TimeToShine · 03-06-2014 11:15AM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Some people here might like a reading of the text version for comparison. It's largely the same, but longer and with more detail. The narrator's attempt at the Dornish accent might take some getting used to however. There are no spoliers.

WTF at that Dornish accent. I'd sooner associate it with North Dublin/Scotland.

Axwell · 03-06-2014 11:17AM

The beetle story is whats known as a Shaggy Dog story - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_dog_story

"In its original sense, a shaggy dog story is an extremely long-winded anecdote characterized by extensive narration of typically irrelevant incidents and terminated by an anticlimax or a pointless punchline.

Shaggy dog stories play upon the audience's preconceptions of joke-telling. The audience listens to the story with certain expectations, which are either simply not met or met in some entirely unexpected manner. A lengthy shaggy dog story derives its humour from the fact that the joke-teller held the attention of the listeners for a long time (such jokes can take five minutes or more to tell) for no reason at all, as the end resolution is essentially meaningless."

Coincidently or not Shaggydog is also the name of Rickons Direwolf.

Liamario · 03-06-2014 11:19AM

FortuneChip · 03-06-2014 11:22AM

TimeToShine wrote: »

WTF at that Dornish accent. I'd sooner associate it with North Dublin.

The Mountain grabbed Oberyn, and lifted him onto his chest, like one takes a lover.

Ellaria could be heard screaming in terror.
"Ah heyor leave it ouh... Leave it bleedin' ouh"

Gumbi · 03-06-2014 11:24AM

Axwell wrote: »

The beetle story is whats known as a Shaggy Dog story - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_dog_story

"In its original sense, a shaggy dog story is an extremely long-winded anecdote characterized by extensive narration of typically irrelevant incidents and terminated by an anticlimax or a pointless punchline.

Shaggy dog stories play upon the audience's preconceptions of joke-telling. The audience listens to the story with certain expectations, which are either simply not met or met in some entirely unexpected manner. A lengthy shaggy dog story derives its humour from the fact that the joke-teller held the attention of the listeners for a long time (such jokes can take five minutes or more to tell) for no reason at all, as the end resolution is essentially meaningless."

Coincidently or not Shaggydog is also the name of Rickons Direwolf.

Good chance Martin himself is the beetle crusher

Chet T16 · 03-06-2014 11:26AM

FortuneChip wrote: »

The Mountain grabbed Oberyn, and lifted him onto his chest, like one takes a lover.

Ellaria could be heard screaming in terror.
"Ah heyor leave it ouh... Leave it bleedin' ouh"

Oh man I need to fire up the video editor

Links234 · 03-06-2014 11:30AM

FortuneChip wrote: »

I don't think the spoiler is needed, it's decent speculation based on what we've seen and heard in the show; i.e fair game.

I'd argue though, why would he use poison?
If he uses a poison, it shows a lack of faith in his own ability to best the Mountain in the duel. And as the Mountain was only one of the men he was seeking revenge on, it wouldn't really give him much satisfaction to think "Yeah, he got me, but in a week's time... oh boy will I get him".

His pre-occupation with having Gregor confirm who gave the order proves that while the Mountain was first on his list, he wasn't on the top of it.

I'm guessing because it's just waaay too signposted, he's even called the viper, I mean come on!

I'm not saying that's how he intended to kill him, I'm thinking he had a bit of extra insurance if things turned ugly.

dutopia · 03-06-2014 11:30AM

I was in shock for a while after that ending.

Kold · 03-06-2014 11:35AM

FortuneChip wrote: »

The Mountain grabbed Oberyn, and lifted him onto his chest, like one takes a lover.

I heard that too and thought to myself, why would you even phrase it like that?
I think there's an alright amount of gay instances in the show but if every fight scene has a homoerotic comparison in the books.... And on top of all that, I've never been pinned to the mat and grabbed a lover one armed and lifted them onto my chest.... That comparison...

Also, it's probably best not to judge George RR's writing from one dodgy accent doing excerpt but it doesn't sound so well written.

SeanJ09 · 03-06-2014 11:39AM

Ya I agree with one of the above posters: The Mountain's confession about killing Ellia Martell could bring the Martells more into the mix. So is The Mountain dying also yes? If he dies, does that have any effect on the judgement on Tyrion by trial by combat?

Kold · 03-06-2014 11:41AM

If the Mountain dies, surely Oberyn scored the killing blow first?

fl4pj4ck · 03-06-2014 11:46AM

SeanJ09 wrote: »

If he dies, does that have any effect on the judgement on Tyrion by trial by combat?

did you actually read this thread?

K_user · 03-06-2014 12:06PM

Wow, what an episode! Well worth waiting through a weeks break.

Who would have thought that such a big moment like Jorah getting the boot would be over shadowed? Both characters are now alone, one physically, one mentally. Nothing good can come of Dany losing her steadiest hand.

Ramsay was as twisted as ever. He's only going to get worse now that he's got the family name.

Sana is stepping it up. She's learning.

I enjoyed that moment between Tyrion and Jamie. It was a shared story between brothers. Well written and acted. Such a trivial conversation, cementing that friendship under a huge amount of stress.

The fight? I think enough has been said here. He had the Mountain on the ropes. His anger outweighed his combat sense. Its classic GOT. Unexpected and the "good guy" never wins.

Favourite scene? Arya laughing. Brilliant.

marco_polo · 03-06-2014 12:38PM

Joeface wrote: »

////////sigh

Game of thrones ....Game of Closed caskets coffins more like .
I was fairly ill for awhile after last nights ep, No one is safe , Tyrion death seems inevitable and I would hate for it to happen I am sure there are plenty more characters with the verbal skills of Tyrion to be added, and they will die too. Winter is coming after all and no one survives winter

f**kin show kills leaves you empty and hungry for more all at the same time.

Pretty last straw of hope I am clinging to that he might make it is that is that it all seems a little too inevitable, I'd really hate for Tyrion to bow out at this point as he is the best part of the whole lot IMO.

Still GOT is just too damn good to stop watching even if GRR does seem to be hell bent on killing all my favorite charachters one by one :mad:.

Dan_Solo · 03-06-2014 12:39PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Only thing possibly he could have gained from it is that the Mace Tyrell was sitting on the council as well. Implicating Tywin in giving the order to murder and rape Elia Martell...and keeeel her children... might unsettle that alliance and lead to Highgarden and Dorne forming a partnership. (The Lannisters badly need the Martells onside). Not too mention giving Oberyn free reign to justifably take out Tywin.
The Mountain was Oberyn's last (and only) chance of proving Tywin guilt.

This is true, things might have turned out like that for him. Then again he might have guessed he'd never get such proof of Tywin's orders, whether he won the fight or not, and Tywin would have to deal with him if he'd lived now he knew his game.

cathalio11 · 03-06-2014 12:53PM

#Justice4Joff

#TeamMountain

03-06-2014 12:55PM

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

did you actually read this thread?

Message boards aren't a place to read what other people have to say, it's just a place to think out loud! :pac:

Samba · 03-06-2014 12:58PM

Links234 wrote: »

Also, a few people are wondering if the Mountain is getting up again? Anyone else willing to bet with the sheer amount of signposting that goes on in this show (they practically told us how it was going down episodes in advance) that
all the talk of Oberyn having a way with poisons wasn't just a red herring for Joffrey's murder and that Gregor Clegane was dead the moment he landed the first blow?

*Spoilered in case I'm right

Also, if I am right,
It makes Oberyn's death all the more vexing, because he had assured his victory

I think you're spot on, I wondered at the time but it only really clicked when I re-watched it. I don't think Oberyn was getting his blade polished and why would they show his assistant doing that right in the middle of the Grand Maester's introduction speech, the cloth looks damp/wet to me and he's wearing a thick pair of gloves. Makes sense imho. It's probably why Oberyn was feeling so cocky.

pookiesboo · 03-06-2014 12:59PM

cathalio11 wrote: »

#Justice4Joff

The "4" instead of "for" in your hastag is class! Makes it look really cool! Wow!

seamus · 03-06-2014 01:01PM

J. Marston wrote: »

Bronn looks out for Bronn and despite the nice moment they had in Tyrion's cell, I can't see him going on a one man rescue mission.

The moment they had in the cell effectively outlined that their relationship was based on what each can do for the other. Tyrion can provide money, Bronn can provide a sword.
It was Bronn's comment of something along the lines of, "Would you do the same for me?" (i.e. "Would you die for me?"), when Tyrion realised that Bronn wasn't willing to die for Tyrion, only for Tyrion's money.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

The Mountain was a total f**king let down TBH. What a lummox. Can't see how The Hound didn't take him apart years ago.

No spoilers, I promise, but they've actually done a great job in the TV show of having the Mountain as this shadowy legendary barbarian, the same way he's portrayed in the books. We've seen him only a couple of times throughout the whole 4 seasons, before the fight we probably saw him for no more than 3 minutes in total screen time.
Yet his deeds are talked about constantly, by all of the characters; the savagery he's committing across Westeros, the savagery he committed during Robert's rebellion, and so on. He's considered almost mythical, like summoning Godzilla to a fight.
The "let down" is exactly what he is supposed to be. The legends speak of an invincible man who is lightning quick wielding a two-handed sword with one hand. Yet when we finally see him in single combat it becomes clear that he's just a monster of a man. Savage and fearless while battling, but relying on brute force and intimidation more than speed and accuracy.
The Viper takes him down gracefully and deftly without the Mountain even managing to take blood. But in the end the Mountain wins with brute force and savagery, because that's what he is.

Da Shins Kelly · 03-06-2014 01:03PM

K_user wrote: »

Who would have thought that such a big moment like Jorah getting the boot would be over shadowed? Both characters are now alone, one physically, one mentally. Nothing good can come of Dany losing her steadiest hand.

Yeah, surely this was not a wise move by Dany? I know her trust in him has been shaken, but surely it's obvious that he was an important cog in the machine. I think Dany is kind of showing some moments of bad judgement this season. She's very quick to dole out her own brand of justice, but she doesn't seem to think too much about the long run. It certainly seems as though Jorah might be right - Tywin is trying to drive a wedge between Dany and her team, causing in-fighting and distrust. It's going to work against her.

Also, is Sansa looking to get a bit of an upper-hand on Littlefinger? Does she have her eye on getting back to Winterfell and maybe using Littlefinger to get there? She seems to be his only potential weakness. As she said herself, she knows exactly what he wants. Keep your friends close, and all that. Roose Bolton also seems to be quite concerned about a Stark comeback. He said himself that the rest of the north would rally around them if they got wind that they're back. Is there a possibility that Sansa could throw a spanner in Bolton's works if she reappears looking to take back what she considers hers?

I can also see the decision to name Ramsay an heir backfiring on Roose. The man's a loose cannon.

cathalio11 · 03-06-2014 01:04PM

pookiesboo wrote: »

The "4" instead of "for" in your hastag is class! Makes it look really cool! Wow!

Thanks.

I like how you left the second "h" out of hashtag. Maybe we should get a team going or something.

FortuneChip · 03-06-2014 01:13PM

Samba wrote: »

I think you're spot on, I wondered at the time but it only really clicked when I re-watched it. I don't think Oberyn was getting his blade polished and why would they show his assistant doing that right in the middle of the Grand Maester's introduction speech, the cloth looks damp/wet to me and he's wearing a thick pair of gloves. Makes sense imho. It's probably why Oberyn was feeling so cocky.

Hope he applied whatever it was to the second glaive as well.

wp_rathead · 03-06-2014 01:51PM

He often gets overlooked but I gotta say that Alfie Allen did some top acting when the Ironborn leader did not surrender straight away - the look of terror on his face as to what Ramsey would do to him when the plan wasn't going the right way..

sebastianlieken · 03-06-2014 02:00PM

I just wrote to my friend who works on GOT and asked her how she lives with herself working with these people, her reply has me more nervous than anything now:

"So I read the scripts, watched it being filmed, and nothing prepared me for watching last night. Episode 10 is the best this year - watch out for it!"

Season 4, Episode 8 - 'The Mountain and the Viper', HAVE NOT read the books

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