Tax Changes under a Sinn Féin Government

steddyeddy · 01-06-2014 02:04AM

comongethappy wrote: »

So keep raising taxes until those who can, flee. While at the same time reduce the burden on those who already pay the lowest, thus reducing the base line to almost nill.

Question:
When you do find that "limit", who pays for the collapse in income tax revenue?

I will answer that I promise but can I ask you does any of the below matter to you in the slightest:

The limit of low earners (I mean low paid workers as opposed to those on benefits) is homelessness, lower access to health care for their children, less food, low quality of life, reduced ability to pay heating and electricity bills and less educationally advantage for their children.

You just brushed over it.

steddyeddy · 01-06-2014 02:05AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Answer to what?

Whatever big question you were talking about:

More taxes isn't the answer.

comongethappy · 01-06-2014 02:07AM

TheBegotten wrote: »

That's funny, I was only looking at their budget proposals before the election :pac: From what I've seen, the most part of their taxation policies check out, with affew conservative guesses in generated revenue. That being said, a lot of it was on the scale of hundreds of millions, rather than the billions every one else seems to be promising. It's not a case of money from nowhere, nor is it a policy of giving everything away. Most of it seems to have the effect of regulating the market a bit more, especially with the changes to CAT (but where shall I hideaway my money now?) and increased PRSI (or the other one, I can never remember the names...10.75% to 15.75%).

But you're right, in a way. SF have been in opposition so long if they got into government it would probably be a shock to the system. I've no doubt many men of straw will be found out. But the one thing I can say for SF, as opposed to the other main parties, is that they have resolve. Something that's sadly lacking in this country today.

Their numbers check out in that 1+1=2.

However when their revenue enhancements are offset by their stated objective of eliminating LPT & water taxes, the impact of the deficit was next to nothing.

I'm also unsure what a party who has never been in power here, has had to "show resolve" for?

comongethappy · 01-06-2014 02:13AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I will answer that I promise but can I ask you does any of the below matter to you in the slightest:

You just brushed over it.

As someone on a mere €24k a year it concerns me big time!

Though I do know that the very lowest earners receive FIS to help makes end meet.

A Mom, Dad & 2 kids family unit qualify for FIS if the earn 30k or less per year, a vital programme for keeping the wolf from the door.
They also qualify for 'back to school allowance' as well as a GP visit card.

These assistances almost completely offset the net cost of income taxes.

If fact..... Click here folks as an example.
Mom, Dad & 2 kids on a modest 28k gross income.

Their net income?
29k or more (including FIS).

Can't get more progressive than that.

Which goes back to the point, what does punishing the 20% who already pay over 70% of all income taxes achieve?

It looks like political point scoring on the part of the Left, rather than sensible policy.

Iwasfrozen · 01-06-2014 02:17AM

Tokarev wrote: »

Like the present Goverment.
Or maybe the past?

Yes, like this government and the last. FG/Lab made the same kind of promises SF are making now while they were in opposition.

Why? Because all politicians are the same, they'll promise anything to get elected. If you think SF are different you are very naive.

Iwasfrozen · 01-06-2014 02:18AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Whatever big question you were talking about:

To our shít services.

steddyeddy · 01-06-2014 02:28AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

To our shít services.

Major overhauls, job losses and assessment of company waste.

Iwasfrozen · 01-06-2014 02:44AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Major overhauls, job losses and assessment of company waste.

Break the power of the unions. Lower public service wages in line with the private sector and use the money saved to upgrade infrastructure. Especially in rural areas.

steddyeddy · 01-06-2014 02:46AM

comongethappy wrote: »

As someone on a mere €24k a year it concerns me big time!

Though I do know that the very lowest earners receive FIS to help makes end meet.

A Mom, Dad & 2 kids family unit qualify for FIS if the earn 30k or less per year, a vital programme for keeping the wolf from the door.
They also qualify for 'back to school allowance' as well as a GP visit card.

These assistances greatly reduce the net cost of income taxes.

If fact..... Click here folks as an example.
Mom, Dad & 2 kids on a modest 28k gross income.

Their net income?
29k or more (including FIS).

Can't get more progressive than that.

Which goes back to the point, what does punishing the 20% who already pay over 70% of all income taxes achieve?

It looks like political point scoring on the part of the Left, rather than sensible policy.

This might sound like brush off but I'm heading to bed but I promise to answer your points tomorrow.

the_syco · 01-06-2014 02:49AM

Will G2 burn it's own offices to the ground "by accident" should SF ever get into power?

Wouldn't blame them if they did.

Fr. Ned · 01-06-2014 09:29AM

lightspeed wrote: »

i could not agree more. Which part of my attitude did you dislike or disagree with?

You feel people like me who work and train for years should have a warmer attitude towards paying for a terribly inefficient, inequitable and unsustainable system like ours ?

You seem to feel like its the civic duty of skilled workers to stay here and pay for the inefficiency of others.

If that is how you feel, then that is something i do disagree with.

Did your years in college get you a job?

Fr. Ned · 01-06-2014 09:30AM

joe swanson wrote: »

A populist party who tell the uneducated what they want to hear.

Is that FFail or labour you're talking about?

Fr. Ned · 01-06-2014 09:33AM

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Sinn Fein have stated openly that they have no intention of going into government with anyone. They are quite happy on the opposition benches, talking bollox, safe in the knowledge that they will never have to implement or answer for any of their absurd economic policies.

That post is a pure lie.

comongethappy · 01-06-2014 09:34AM

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Is that FFail or labour you're talking about?

Could be, though I think he was referring to SF.
(Unless you think his description inaccurate?)

Fr. Ned · 01-06-2014 09:35AM

comongethappy wrote: »

Well, empty rhetoric aside;

When a party promises no taxes & infinite spending, it doesn't take much to see through it.

As a very working class person (well below national salary average), I don't want to live under a masive tax burden to pay an ever expanding national debt.

In fairness to the government, they have reduced the deficit, SF promised instead (as per their website) much more debt.......

..... And what pays off debt sooner or later..?

... Taxes!!

The national debt will have increased to over €220 billion by 2016 under FG.

Angela will be happy.

Ireland is paying 42% of the cost of the european bank scandal.

comongethappy · 01-06-2014 09:39AM

Fr. Ned wrote: »

The national debt will have increased to over €220 billion by 2016 under FG.

Angela will be happy.

Ireland is paying 42% of the cost of the european bank scandal.

In 2010 the day to day deficit was 12bn.
This year it will be 1bn surplus.

Of course overall debt grew while the current deficit was being reduced..... No one sane suggested they cut 20bn in spending on the first day.

At the end of the day though, the gov have closed the deficit, with SF opposing that at every move.

kippy · 01-06-2014 09:52AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Break the power of the unions. Lower public service wages in line with the private sector and use the money saved to upgrade infrastructure. Especially in rural areas.

What area of the private sector?

joe swanson · 01-06-2014 10:09AM

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Is that FFail or labour you're talking about?

Maybe if you read the thread title you would find out. And also, if you read the rest of my post you would see that i don't follow any particular political party so i really don't see what your trying to achieve by saying that given what the thread topic is.

Fr. Ned · 01-06-2014 10:14AM

comongethappy wrote: »

In 2010 the day to day deficit was 12bn.
This year it will be 1bn surplus.

Source?

If we have a €1 billion surplus, why are FG going to take another €2 billion in cuts and taxes in October's budget?

Fr. Ned · 01-06-2014 10:18AM

joe swanson wrote: »

Maybe if you read the thread title you would find out. And also, if you read the rest of my post you would see that i don't follow any particular political party so i really don't see what your trying to achieve by saying that given what the thread topic is.

The point is that FFail's economic policy's destroyed the economy.

The troika got it back on track, however FG have ensured that the weakest and poorest were hit hardest while the super rich get richer.

We, a country of around 4 million people, are paying 42% of the cost of the european banking scandal and FG, enda in particular, refuses to ask or demand a reduction of that debt.

That's pathetic.

enfant terrible · 01-06-2014 10:19AM

How much do the super rich pay here in taxes in total?

Ultra conservative/capitalist people like Sean Hannity are paying a 60% tax rate(state, local, federal taxes), in the home of capitalsim.

http://www.readingisforsnobs.com/2013/04/sean-hannity-inadvertdantly-refutes.html

What are they paying here?

Fr. Ned · 01-06-2014 10:23AM

enfant terrible wrote: »

How much do the super rich pay here in taxes in total?

Ultra conservative/capitalist people like Sean Hannity are paying a 60% tax rate(state, local, federal taxes), in the home of capitalsim.

http://www.readingisforsnobs.com/2013/04/sean-hannity-inadvertdantly-refutes.html

What are they paying here?

Enda's FG benefactor, tax non dom (the one who bought siteserv after the Irish taxpayer wrote off €100 million in debt and then handed him the water meter contract) pays none.

He is tax resident in Malta.

kippy · 01-06-2014 10:23AM

Fr. Ned wrote: »

The point is that FFail's economic policy's destroyed the economy.

The troika got it back on track, however FG have ensured that the weakest and poorest were hit hardest while the super rich get richer.

We, a country of around 4 million people, are paying 42% of the cost of the european banking scandal and FG, enda in particular, refuses to ask or demand a reduction of that debt.

That's pathetic.

What figures are you basing that 42% on?

Fr. Ned · 01-06-2014 10:25AM

kippy wrote: »

What figures are you basing that 42% on?

Eurostat figures.

Here's an article about it.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2F42-of-europes-banking-crisis-paid-by-ireland-219703.html&ei=VvGKU8XXM6Xn7AaQooCQBg&usg=AFQjCNGkfBcYsIz5hzKABRgK1AaOLK9bkw

tomwaterford · 01-06-2014 10:26AM

Fr. Ned wrote: »

The point is that FFail's economic policy's destroyed the economy.

The troika got it back on track, however FG have ensured that the weakest and poorest were hit hardest while the super rich get richer.

We, a country of around 4 million people, are paying 42% of the cost of the european banking scandal and FG, enda in particular, refuses to ask or demand a reduction of that debt.

That's pathetic.

ya...remember his little nod-and-wink before the last election that he was that merkels friend...
all he is fit for is going out to Europe and getting patted on the head like a child...they would only laugh at him...while he getting paid so much in relation to rest of them....why would they take him serious??

Fr. Ned · 01-06-2014 10:31AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

ya...remember his little nod-and-wink before the last election that he was that merkels friend...
all he is fit for is going out to Europe and getting patted on the head like a child...they would only laugh at him...while he getting paid so much in relation to rest of them....why would they take him serious??

In years to come we'll look back at this time in our history and wonder what the f*ck happened.

A drunk crashed the car and we then let a circus clown drive it on...

We really do get just what we deserve by electing these morons.

R0ot · 01-06-2014 10:33AM

super_furry wrote: »

Reintroducing betting tax is a non-starter. How do you enforce that for online gambling? And then if you do attempt to enforce it for online gambling, say goodbye to every single online bookmaker based here.

Yeah because I mean it's not like people are addicted to gambling or anything. Look at the amount of money lost every time they raise tax on alcohol and cigarettes.

kippy · 01-06-2014 10:34AM

Fr. Ned wrote: »

In years to come we'll look back at this time in our history and wonder what the f*ck happened.

A drunk crashed the car and we then let a circus clown drive it on...

We really do get just what we deserve by electing these morons.

The biggest issue is, in my opinion, that the only people in politics are in general morons.
Job spec for a politician;
Get elected.

R0ot · 01-06-2014 10:35AM

awec wrote: »

48% on anything over 100k.

Wow.

I'm almost sure I'm paying this on anything I earn in over time these days. (I'm well under 100k p/a )

mikemac1 · 01-06-2014 10:36AM

Charlie McCreevy cut betting tax from 10 per cent to 5 per cent and the government took in more money.

Same happened with capital gains tax.

If the Department of Finance are clever they can find more solutions like this

Also, the government of the day went hard after Isle of Man accounts and tax defaulters. Our local county councillor had to make a settlement of over 2 million. With the amount of cash in hand landlords I've met over the years I'm sure an amnesty and then penalty deadline could be done. Though this should have been done a few years ago

Tax Changes under a Sinn Féin Government

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