Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

KH25 · 31-05-2014 10:11AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

exactly my thoughts. they have let the club get on with it over recent years and the majority of the poor decisions lately (Moyes getting the job, signing poor players, wasting money on pointless transfers) has been mad made by Fergie.

Glazers are an easy target, but people need to realise it wasnt them who decided to splash the guts of 100million on Young, Jones, Fellaini, Valencia, Bebe and Henriquez when other better players could have been got for better value, with a little bit of scouting and thought.

Agree with what you said but do you not think its a bit unfair to mention henriquez there? I don't recall him costing much and from what I've heard he has great potential.

homerjay2005 · 31-05-2014 10:26AM

just going through some emails and i notice the club are definately playing on the appointment of Van Gaal to bump up season ticket renewals.

all season ticket holders were emailed within a few minutes of the offical announcement and now, they are sending out renewal letters/emails to ST holders with reference to Van Gaal in the first line.

Dear supporter,

With Louis van Gaal at the helm, an exciting new era beckons at Old Trafford. The current Dutch national coach has pledged to make history in his new post, and as this Saturday's final Season Ticket renewal deadline edges ever closer, there's not long left to guarantee your seat to see all the action unfold.

its a decent possiblity that one of the main reasons they delayed his announcement was to have it as close as possible to end of month renewal date to change peoples minds who were going to give up their ticket. would have expected a signing announced also this week to push people even more.

beno619 · 31-05-2014 10:38AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Glazers are an easy target, but people need to realise it wasnt them who decided to splash the guts of 100million on Young, Jones, Fellaini, Valencia, Bebe and Henriquez when other better players could have been got for better value, with a little bit of scouting and thought.

Timmyctc · 31-05-2014 10:53AM

NeVeR wrote: »

Man United Fans World Cup Sweeps

Updated paid list.

--- Player --- |--- Paid --- |--- Team ---
1: NeVeR | Yes |
2: Gadge | Yes |
3: keane2097 | Yes |
4: Donnielighto | |
5: LightOfTruth | Yes |
6: Vertigo100 | Yes |
7: s.welstead | Yes |
8: duffman13 | Yes |
9: irishfeen | Yes |
10: bucketybuck |Yes |
11: astradave | Yes |
12: RasTa | Yes |
13: ManofStraw | Yes |
14: LostBoy101 | |
15: glued | Yes |
16: Thepoet85 | Yes |
17: Timmyctc | |
18: KevIRL | Yes |
19: scudzilla | Yes |
20: collie0708 |Yes |
21: Liam O | |
22: markc1184 | Yes |
23: Blatter | Yes |
24: bennyl10 |Yes |
25: stankratz | |
26: Thatsfootball | Yes |
27: Iago | Yes |
28: bren2001 | Yes |
29: ninja900 | Yes |
30: yermandan | Yes |
31: Saucy McKetchup |Yes |
32: Will I Amnt | Yes |

I've decided that this is the final prizes list.

World Cup winner €150
Runner Up €70

1st Most yellow cards in group stages €20
1st Red Card €20
1st OG €20
1st Peno €20
Worst goal difference in group stages. €20

Looking good lads.. 5 left to pay. Once we get them all I'll do the Draw

I'm waiting for the money to clear into my paypal from my bank acc. My bank card is fooked. Whens the deadline?

homerjay2005 · 31-05-2014 11:00AM

beno619 wrote: »

you forgot to type your post....you think those players represented good value?

beno619 · 31-05-2014 11:06AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you forgot to type your post....you think those players represented good value?

I think some of your inclusions are strange.

Jones is 22 id be surprised if he didn't pay back his fee and then some.

Valencia was a very good player for us.

Hanriquez €4 million and lots of potential.

Fellaini while overpriced it would be very fickle to write him off already.

Lord TSC · 31-05-2014 11:09AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you forgot to type your post....you think those players represented good value?

I get your thing for Jones so am ignoring that one.

Valencia was 16m according to wiki, and had some very successful spells at United. Right, his last season and a half has been dire, but I'd think it's pretty easy to argue we got our 16m worth out of him.

Fellaini is hard to judge right now; it seems we overpaid by a few million but he's had a bad season in a season where EVERYONE, bar a select few, have struggled drastically. He's being tainted by who brought him in though rather than by an objective viewing of the season as a whole. Will need more than last season to prove a discussion one way or the other.

Henriquez is 20 and has barely had a chance at United yet. How much was his fee? Seems very OTT to be slamming him just yet though.

Lukker- · 31-05-2014 11:18AM

In fairness Jones was easily the best young CB in the country at the time. He wasn't a bad investment, it's just Ferguson really stunted his development by playing him out of position so much.

I don't know if he's good enough now to hold down a regular starting position at CB. I think if he played regularly in his natural position he'd be a far better player for it.

A jack of all trades, an ace at none.

RobertKK · 31-05-2014 11:34AM

De Gea has spoken out against the selling of Mata.

"I would not sell Juan Mata. He is a very important player for us. "We have taken a qualitative leap with him and he has adapted very well."

Says United should buy Iniesta...

"If I had millions and millions, I would buy Iniesta, he is one of the best players in the world. He has character, quality and goals. He has everything."

Iniesta claimed to be another person Van Gaal is interested in...who isn't he reported to be interested in...

Pudsy33 · 31-05-2014 11:36AM

Mata going to the World Cup. Have to say I am happy for him.

thelad95 · 31-05-2014 11:45AM

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Mata going to the World Cup. Have to say I am happy for him.

One could argue we have fulfilled the purpose we were to him. He knew if he stayed at Chelsea, he wouldn't be going to the WC. He came to us for first team football and to get a chance in the WC and now that he's gone maybe he might angle away for another move, especially if the rumours are true that he isn't in LVG's plans. He is far too good to rot away on the bench again.

Surely he couldn't be that fickle.. could he?

homerjay2005 · 31-05-2014 11:46AM

beno619 wrote: »

Fellaini while overpriced it would be very fickle to write him off already.

im not writing Fellaini off at all...he has been signed and we all hope he comes good. but no matter how his career turns out, he is worth about half of what we actually paid for him and that was bad business.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Henriquez is 20 and has barely had a chance at United yet. How much was his fee? Seems very OTT to be slamming him just yet though.

slamming him? im not slamming him at all, just dont see the point in us buying him when we already had 5 strikers at the club and starved of games. that money would have been better spent going towards adding a few extra million that was needed to close other deals (Hazard for example) that we pulled out of.

Lukker- wrote: »

In fairness Jones was easily the best young CB in the country at the time. He wasn't a bad investment, it's just Ferguson really stunted his development by playing him out of position so much.

best young cb based on what, a season with a relegated blackburn rovers? if he was good enough, he'd have been played at CB and ferguson wouldnt have been in the position to move him. we all hope he comes good, but he has a huge amount of improving to do and in the 3 years since he came to the club, he is still the exact same standard of player and has not improved one bit.

i cant believe im actually having to argue with people who are defending our transfer business over the past 5 years. its been very poorly handled and our season last year had been coming for a long time - too much money was spent on average players who came to us for almost world class prices.

our net spend over the past 3 years is almost equal to that of Citys, yet they have a squad of world class players to show for it, we have about 5 or 6 maximum (DDG, Mata,RVP, Rooney, Nani).

Rayne Wooney · 31-05-2014 11:58AM

It's strange for that question even to be answered considering he has only been with us 5 months

VG played Muller right wing for Bayern as far as I know so the 433 with the two wide players don't have to be out and out wingers all of the time, but they will still have to work very hard for the system to work. Rooney is more the odd one out than anybody I think, no way will Van Gaal play him as a 10 he just won't work there.

RobertKK · 31-05-2014 12:17PM

It is upto Van Gaal to make Mata a part of his plans, it is not like the team is overflowing with talent at the level of Mata.
I would be very disappointed if he was to be sold to Barcelona. He has a lot to offer.

Paul Tergat · 31-05-2014 12:21PM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is upto Van Gaal to make Mata a part of his plans, it is not like the team is overflowing with talent at the level of Mata.
I would be very disappointed if he was to be sold to Barcelona. He has a lot to offer.

Flip that

Lord TSC · 31-05-2014 12:24PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im not writing Fellaini off at all...he has been signed and we all hope he comes good. but no matter how his career turns out, he is worth about half of what we actually paid for him and that was bad business.

We paid around 28m for him supposidly. When you see the likes of Bale going for 85m, Luiz going for 50m...in today's market, we didn't overpay for Fel significantly, especially when you consider Everton held all the cards in the deal; he was a young midfielder coming off a good year, PL proven, they knew we were desperate and that our new manager was trying to be a tad hypocritical trying to get him. He certainly wasn't worth 12-15m as you're trying to say.

slamming him? im not slamming him at all, just dont see the point in us buying him when we already had 5 strikers at the club and starved of games. that money would have been better spent going towards adding a few extra million that was needed to close other deals (Hazard for example) that we pulled out of.

Ah, come off it. The problem with Hazard wasn't that the bank was running a bit dry and we didn't have the cash to afford him. Had we wanted him and if the problem was cash, we'd have got him. It came down to Fergie being pig headed, as usual, and the fact Chelsea won the CL didn't help either.

best young cb based on what, a season with a relegated blackburn rovers? if he was good enough, he'd have been played at CB and ferguson wouldnt have been in the position to move him. we all hope he comes good, but he has a huge amount of improving to do and in the 3 years since he came to the club, he is still the exact same standard of player and has not improved one bit.

The original point was we overspent on him, and again, relative to other players in similiar positions (age, potential, at a club who didn't want him to go, with other teams after him, and being English), we really didn't.

i cant believe im actually having to argue with people who are defending our transfer business over the past 5 years. its been very poorly handled and our season last year had been coming for a long time - too much money was spent on average players who came to us for almost world class prices.

our net spend over the past 3 years is almost equal to that of Citys, yet they have a squad of world class players to show for it, we have about 5 or 6 maximum (DDG, Mata,RVP, Rooney, Nani).

Funny enough, the problem isn't (at least for me) a disagreement on whether our transfer business or not needs examining over the past few years; it's that you're using dreadful examples to try and justify your point...I'd actually agree that Fergie (and Moyes) were poor at identifying targets and did bring in and let go the wrong people. I just disagree on some of the players you've named as examples.

homerjay2005 · 31-05-2014 12:37PM

for those of you interested, here is the net spend over the past 3 years. when you look at these figures, it really is an eye opener for those who blame the glazers for our poor squad

man united - 156million
chelsea - 188 millon
Liverpool - 97million
Arsenal - 24million
Man City - 152million

source - transfer league website.

in this time, we have added 10 players with value over 5million.

City have added 13 players including Nasri, Aguero, Navas, Fernandiho, Clichy, Negredo.

i think its clear to see who got better business and deals.

Timmyctc · 31-05-2014 12:43PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

for those of you interested, here is the net spend over the past 3 years. when you look at these figures, it really is an eye opener for those who blame the glazers for our poor squad

man united - 156million
chelsea - 188 millon
Liverpool - 97million
Arsenal - 24million
Man City - 152million

source - transfer league website.

in this time, we have added 10 players with value over 5million.

City have added 13 players including Nasri, Aguero, Navas, Fernandiho, Clichy, Negredo.

i think its clear to see who got better business and deals.

why the last three years ?

Timmyctc · 31-05-2014 12:44PM

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Flip that

"its up to Mata to make van gaal a part of his plans"?

I can see Louis being upset he isn't a part of Mata's dinner arrangements

Lukker- · 31-05-2014 12:45PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

best young cb based on what, a season with a relegated blackburn rovers? if he was good enough, he'd have been played at CB and ferguson wouldnt have been in the position to move him. we all hope he comes good, but he has a huge amount of improving to do and in the 3 years since he came to the club, he is still the exact same standard of player and has not improved one bit.

He had 2 seasons at Blackburn, one where he was a prospect and one where he played most games when he was fit. The fee was decided by his release clause, 16m which Liverpool also met. I'm not trying to defend him, no he hasn't pushed on since he joined but he's also played out of position for the majority of games. You can't expect a player to develop by constantly swapping him from RB, DM to CB. He'd probably be a better player now if he joined Liverpool.

homerjay2005 · 31-05-2014 12:46PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

it's that you're using dreadful examples to try and justify your point...I'd actually agree that Fergie (and Moyes) were poor at identifying targets and did bring in and let go the wrong people. I just disagree on some of the players you've named as examples.

?????

you are contracting yourself here completely. you say we brought in the wrong players, but disagree with the ones i mentioned.that very baffling, who else then would you have on that list?

De Gea?
RVP?
Mata?
Kagawa?

after that theres very few left apart from the ones i mentioned, so your point is completly baffling seen as youve not provided anything to back up your point.

i also forgot to mention the 15million we paid for Zaha, another silly transfer. look at it this way,

we got Jones, City got Nastasic (cheaper and better player).
we got Fellaini, City got Fernandinho ( better player for around same price).
we got Young, City got Navas (better player for about 5million more).
we got Zaha, City got Nasri (better player for 7million more).

and that doesnt include their superstar signings like Aguero and Negredo and yet, they still spent less than us. of course you could argue they got big money for their sales (80 million v 28 million) but then the other side of that is the fact that they had better players availalble to sell in the first place.

homerjay2005 · 31-05-2014 12:49PM

Timmyctc wrote: »

why the last three years ?

because its the most relevent to the status of our current squad. City and other clubs have spent wisely and closed the gap on us and come august, the vast majority of our squad will have been at the club less than 4 years.

Paul Tergat · 31-05-2014 12:57PM

Timmyctc wrote: »

"its up to Mata to make van gaal a part of his plans"? I can see Louis being upset he isn't a part of Mata's dinner arrangements

féck off - you know what i meant

Lord TSC · 31-05-2014 01:26PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

?????

you are contracting yourself here completely. you say we brought in the wrong players, but disagree with the ones i mentioned.that very baffling, who else then would you have on that list?

after that theres very few left apart from the ones i mentioned, so your point is completly baffling seen as youve not provided anything to back up your point.

RVP and Mata certainly weren't what we needed at the time of their purchases; both were vanity buys designed to gloss over weaknesses in other areas. Don't get me wrong, I love both players, and RVP certainly covered up the holes really well.

But if RVP hadn't been bought, we might have actually gotten more use out of Kagawa and Rooney would have been played up front where he'd probably have done quite well. Had that money been invested into midfield, we likely still would have done well.

Mata is a player I adore, but clashes positionally with Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj. The only way to justify it is if we move on other players (personally Rooney would be my choice there). But while I love him, the reality is it was 38m spent in January while our midfield went gaping again.

Kagawa could be argued as money misspent simply based on the fact we've not deployed him properly. I know there's the issue he was bought before we knew RVP was available but it does seem like a waste of a great talent, and the waste comes from the fact we've overstocked in certain areas.

We spent 15m for Zaha and never played him, despite crying out for a change on the wings. We let Pogba go for nothing.

Those three transfers to me sum up United's transfer problems; we're getting the right types of players but for the wrong positions. We're turning our nose up at youth who play positions where out current crop are weak (not saying they'd be the answer to our problems, mind; just that we never even give them a chance).

Add to that the fact that last summer, we seemed only interested in a small handful of superstars and ignored cheaper players too. That, at least, seems to be something that feels different this year; I know it's just the Dutch connection we seem to be getting linked to cheaper but solid talents who'd improve our team drastically.

Rubber_Soul · 31-05-2014 01:26PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

because its the most relevent to the status of our current squad. City and other clubs have spent wisely and closed the gap on us and come august, the vast majority of our squad will have been at the club less than 4 years.

What's the difference in outlay for wages over the same period?

Headshot · 31-05-2014 01:44PM

I was just thinking which utd player will have a a successful WC and just hit me, Nani. All to play for and will have somthing to prove

thelad95 · 31-05-2014 01:59PM

Headshot wrote: »

I was just thinking which utd player will have a a successful WC and just hit me, Nani. All to play for and will have somthing to prove

The World Cup could benefit us massively in getting rid of players. Nani is exactly the type of player whose value could be wildly inflated by a magnificent world cup performance along with Welbeck, Valencia and Kagawa.

homerjay2005 · 31-05-2014 02:12PM

StarshipPooper wrote: »

What's the difference in outlay for wages over the same period?

not alot i would imagine (on the phone at moment and about to go to a wedding so i cannot check) but Uniteds wage bill is exceptionally high and one of the biggest around. there is a massive misconception that we dont pay well, but we do.

speaking of this wedding, theres an international footballer going to it...his missus is best mates with the bride, will try get some gossip out of him when he is drunk

Lord TSC · 31-05-2014 02:14PM

This site...

http://www.tsmplug.com/football/premier-league-player-salaries-club-by-club/

...has us as third highest wages (50m behind City this year, pretty close to Chelsea).

Quandary · 31-05-2014 02:27PM

Ashley Young on £118k per week according to that link.

Quite simply, shocking. Compared to almost all to other players, relative to their ability and importance to the team, his wages are a joke.

He is the first player I want to see gone this summer.

Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

Comments