Ignoring parents with dementia?

Reiketsu · 29-05-2014 09:25AM

My grandfather has Alzheimers. He is 82. I still go to visit him but I'll only go if my Dad is going as I find it upsetting. He knows who I am at times but its awful when he doesn't remember me. His children are all very good though. They take turns to stay with him and help out. Then the carers come in in the mornings and evenings. I don't think we could abandon him but I do understand the difficulty in seeing someone like that all the same.

enda1 · 29-05-2014 09:29AM

I understand what he means. In the end our body is just a vessel for our mind. It is our mind and those of others that create affection and love. A loved one dies when their mind does, afterwards we're just waiting for nature to catch-up.

herisson · 29-05-2014 09:34AM

My gran had dementia. Never in a million years did any of us ignore her. My mam my aunts and my uncles all cared for her up until she died. The week she was going out she had someone by her side, even when she finally passed she wasn't alone day or night. As soon as she came back to the house there was always someone by her side day and night right up until she was buried. She didn't like being alone, and even though she had dementia and didn't remember half us at the best of times she wasn't alone. She raised her kids and she raised pretty much me and my cousins, not a chance any of us were going to ignore her.

For me personally, I do remember how bad she became but I cherish the memories I had when I was a child too. I don't let the memory of her dementia distort my over all memory of her.

Yes it is extremely difficult and heartbreaking to deal with someone close who has dementia, but if the tables were turned, my Gran would care for anyone with it.

cena · 29-05-2014 09:42AM

My dad has early on set dementia and alzheimer's. Only 64. I myself am in my late 20's. It is hard going in know your parent well never know who you are again.

I wish sometimes I could slip him something and put him out of misery.

Penny Tration · 29-05-2014 09:48AM

I don't fully believe the whole 'they're not who they were' line.

My grandad couldn't speak, eat, walk, urinate, none of that. But he sure as hell made his personality known. If he didn't want to do something, he showed his stubbornness, by fighting it tooth and nail.

If a female nurse tried to help him with something 'intimate,' he refused to move or do anything until a male nurse took over, because he always believed the only female who should see his bits was his wife.

Even with late stage dementia, he may not have remembered us, but he never forgot who he was. His personality still shone through. Even his personal nurse said it.

Sleepy · 29-05-2014 09:50AM

I think it's pretty disgusting that I haven't got the right to ask to be put to sleep should I ever end up like that. How many of us would choose to live out the end of our days in such a meaningless existence and placing such a burden on our families?

FullblownRose · 29-05-2014 09:59AM

obplayer wrote: »

How can you tell what they understand about the world around them? They may well be recognizing you but unable to say. You have to act on the best option, even if you never get a response to support it.

I have seen ''support workers'' and some parents of non verbal people with indeterminate or low levels of receptive language, basically ignoring them and talking over their heads so to speak, as if they weren't there. I totally disagree with it and I totally agree with your comment above in such cases as the OP mentioned.

Maphisto · 29-05-2014 10:01AM

oldyouth wrote: »

..... My mother in law has it and it is a nasty, nasty illness, especially when the person was so vibrant in their prime

This has to be one of the saddest illnesses.

I remember my wifes Grannie. She was a fiesty, cheeky humerous woman. I was chatting to someone at her funeral who said that it was a shame that youngsters would simply remember (or not most likely) a confused little old lady, and not the vibrant, strong generous and funny person she had been.

Ah well, just my bit of nostalgia - comes to us all in the end I suppose.

sbsquarepants · 29-05-2014 10:14AM

ryan101 wrote: »

Your parents are still your parents. Should parents refuse to visit children with brain damage or such like ?
Sir Ian is just another self centred, self interested dick looking for excuses.

It does seem a bit prickish, especially seeing as he has plenty of money to get the best help, he just doesn't want to be bothered by seeing it. But I think in reality, his father is already gone - all that's left is the shell that used to house whatever it is that makes us us.
Personally I'd rather just be put down - it's cruel to keep someone "alive" if you can call it that. In our normal natural existence, without medical intervention he'd be dead in no time, in our "caring" society we pump them full of chemicals and string them out like that for years on end - it's disgusting!

jimgoose · 29-05-2014 10:20AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It does seem a bit prickish, especially seeing as he has plenty of money to get the best help, he just doesn't want to be bothered by seeing it. But I think in reality, his father is already gone - all that's left is the shell that used to house whatever it is that makes us us.
Personally I'd rather just be put down - it's cruel to keep someone "alive" if you can call it that. In our normal natural existence, without medical intervention he'd be dead in no time, in our "caring" society we pump them full of chemicals and string them out like that for years on end - it's disgusting!

It is not "normal" to want to put your father down like a cat that's been run over. It is natural to want to hang on to them as long as possible. What if there's a spark of that person in there, surrounded by dysfunctional brain-tissue? There's a lot of high-falutin' talk about putting people out of their "misery" at a certain age/with certain medical conditions from people in their thirties who've never so much as had their tonsils out. We as a society need to drastically improve our attitude to the elderly, and fairly lively. If money was all it was, and if I could, I'd have had my Dad rebuilt Darth Vader-style if it meant hearing his wit and wisdom for another few years.

ryan101 · 29-05-2014 10:22AM

Kirby wrote: »

They aren't your parents anymore once they lose their minds. Your mind is what dictates who you are.

If I had dementia, I would hope my family carted me off to a home. It's the right thing to do. "I" am gone and the husk that remains shouldn't be a burden on them. A slight financial burden might be inevitable but they shouldn't have to deal with feeding me, dressing me, wiping my arse and just the daily reminder of what happened to me.

I think they still are your parents, and yes if they get very bad it takes professional care in a home, but not visiting them seems wrong. Would they have refused to visit you as a child if you had brain damage and were put into a care home or have you put down ? I'm not sure so they would. There are few certainties in life, but we all get older.

Sunny Dayz · 29-05-2014 10:26AM

As upsetting as it may seem to see someone you love with Alz or Dementia - when they are gone the memories you are left with are of the good times, not the last few years when they were ill.

My grandfather had Alz and although we hated having to visit him in the nursing home we still did it. But when I think back on him, I don't dwell on when he didn't recognise us of thought we were someone else - I remember the good times.

sbsquarepants · 29-05-2014 10:28AM

jimgoose wrote: »

If money was all it was, and if I could, I'd have had my Dad rebuilt Darth Vader-style if it meant hearing his wit and wisdom for another few years.

So would I. But do you think it's right to keep them alive in such a fashion with no chance of ever hearing and wit and not a shred of wisdom left? Another x amount of years spent, scared, angry, apprehensive, confused and so on? Just so it could be said you were "alive".
Would you thank your child for doing that for you? I know I certainly wouldn't.

jimgoose · 29-05-2014 10:29AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

So would I. But do you think it's right to keep them alive in such a fashion with no chance of ever hearing and wit and not a shred of wisdom left? Another x amount of years spent, scared, angry, apprehensive, confused and so on? Just so, just so it could be said you were "alive".
Would you thank your child for doing that for you? I know I certainly wouldn't.

In the absence of knowledge to the contrary, yes. Yes, I would. Where there's life there's hope.

kylith · 29-05-2014 10:42AM

My mother has blatantly told me that if she develops dementia she would like me to take her for a walk along the top of a high cliff in a strong gale - she does not want to live like that.

Personally I think that it's cruel and selfish to force someone to live in fear and anxiety, not knowing who they are, not knowing who the people around them are, not knowing where they are, incontinent, and having momentary flashes of lucidity which make them aware of all they have lost, just because you're not ready to let your dad go. You're dad is already gone. His brain will never heal, he will just get more confused and more afraid. I would rather my parents die with dignity and, were they to ask me, I would absolutely travel to Dignitas with them so that they could end their life on their own terms.

I have never understood why it's considered barbaric to force a dog to live in fear and pain, but barbaric not to force a human to live in fear and pain.

DubOnHoliday · 29-05-2014 10:54AM

Its a cop out by Botham. If you leave the care of those you 'love' to strangers in a care home, no matter how good the home is, you are a low life. It is your responsibilty to visit them, and be there for them.

ryan101 · 29-05-2014 10:54AM

kylith wrote: »

My mother has blatantly told me that if she develops dementia she would like me to take her for a walk along the top of a high cliff in a strong gale - she does not want to live like that.

Personally I think that it's cruel and selfish to force someone to live in fear and anxiety, not knowing who they are, not knowing who the people around them are, not knowing where they are, incontinent, and having momentary flashes of lucidity which make them aware of all they have lost, just because you're not ready to let your dad go. You're dad is already gone. His brain will never heal, he will just get more confused and more afraid. I would rather my parents die with dignity and, were they to ask me, I would absolutely travel to Dignitas with them so that they could end their life on their own terms.

Why not do the same with children who due to brain damage cannot recognise their parents ?

kylith · 29-05-2014 11:10AM

ryan101 wrote: »

Why not do the same with children who due to brain damage cannot recognise their parents ?

Personally, if I had a child who was in an accident bad enough to leave them brain damaged I would ask the doctors not to resuscitate them, if I found out that I was carrying a foetus that would be born severely brain damaged I would probably have a termination. I would not support euthanizing a child that had become brain damaged through illness because they would not have the capacity to ask for that to be done, but neither would I support using extra-ordinary means to keep them alive.

You will note that in my above comment I said that these would be my parent's wishes.

ryan101 · 29-05-2014 11:14AM

kylith wrote: »

I would not support euthanizing a child that had become brain damaged through illness because they would not have the capacity to ask for that to be done

Glad you hear you get that at least. The same applies to parents, and not visiting them.

kylith · 29-05-2014 11:20AM

ryan101 wrote: »

Glad you hear you get that at least. The same applies to parents, and not visiting them.

Oh, I'd visit my parents, and I certainly wouldn't go smothering them but as I said, if my parent was still compos mentis and asked me to take a trip to Switzerland with them I would.

ryan101 · 29-05-2014 11:24AM

kylith wrote: »

Oh, I'd visit my parents, and I certainly wouldn't go smothering them but as I said, if my parent was still compos mentis and asked me to take a trip to Switzerland with them I would.

I don't think they'd resort to that yet, they'll probably give you a few more years to see.

sbsquarepants · 29-05-2014 11:32AM

ryan101 wrote: »

Why not do the same with children who due to brain damage cannot recognise their parents ?

I don't know. Why not?
I'm not suggesting we should, I just don't know any particularly compelling or convincing argument as to why we shouldn't either. Each individual case is so wildly different that blanket answers are practically meaningless.
Normally in cases like this you get vague nonsense answers like life is precious, or we can't play god or something like that - neither of which hold much actual meaning.

jimgoose wrote: »

In the absence of knowledge to the contrary, yes. Yes, I would. Where there's life there's hope.

It's a matter of personal choice, you would, I wouldn't. Neither of us should be able to insist the other is bound by our choice.

kylith · 29-05-2014 11:34AM

ryan101 wrote: »

I don't think they'd resort to that yet, they'll probably give you a few more years to see.

Well, I'll keep phoning her every week to check. "You feeling alright mammy? Ready to do yourself in yet, mammy? You sure about that? Ok, talk to you again next week."

fyfe79 · 29-05-2014 11:40AM

My mother suffered from Motor Neuron's and Dementia before dying a couple of years ago, aged 60. In her last few months, it was unbearable. She became highly agitated when at home which drove my father into a depression.

It got so bad, so quickly, that no nursing home would take her as she was too aggressive, yet my father needed to do so without any help even though he needed a hip replacement at the time which he had to cancel. He was in agony and in hindsight, had something of a mental breakdown. Eventually, my mother got a kidney infection and was admitted to hospital where she stayed for a couple of months until her death. The immediate family, and extended family, took turns minding her in her bed even though she wanted to repeatedly get out and wander aimlessly around the hospital and was a danger to herself and others. A truly horrible, horrible time.

A quiet mild-mannered woman became something else entirely in her final year or so, and it was horrible to see. My memories are still vivid unfortunately. I still wonder just what was the point of it all? My mother suffered for longer than she should have and family members became more depressed the longer it continued. I think we really need to talk more about euthanasia, albeit highly controlled, and remove the stigma.

SEPT 23 1989 · 29-05-2014 11:42AM

Are there not moments of lucidity with dementia?

ryan101 · 29-05-2014 11:52AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't know. Why not?
I'm not suggesting we should, I just don't know any particularly compelling or convincing argument as to why we shouldn't either. Each individual case is so wildly different that blanket answers are practically meaningless.
Normally in cases like this you get vague nonsense answers like life is precious, or we can't play god or something like that - neither of which hold much actual meaning.

Really at the end of the day, does anything hold meaning ?

thegreatgonzo · 29-05-2014 12:02PM

stpaddy99 wrote: »

is it better if n0o one visits them and we all just remember them as they were?

My dad has alzheimers now and while he gets confused about a lot of things, occasionally he is surprising lucid and his feelings are sensitive. My granny had dementia before she died and although she didn't have a clue which way was up she loved visitors.
The point is, we really don't know what is going on inside their heads and while their brain function may have deteriorated, they still have feelings and like children they get upset easily and can feel lonely and abandoned. I wouldn't wish anyone to feel like that, never mind someone I love.

Irishcrx · 29-05-2014 12:56PM

It's a terrible terrible illness for anyone to go through , my neighbour has it and was becoming consumed by it. His wife was away doing charity work in Africa when it really took a hold of him and we had to keep an eye on him , when I say we had to I mean we did, obviously we could have tried to ignore him but I've known him a long time and wouldn't do that.

He was a handfull , hammering nails into the walls at all hours of the night , seeing 'sound patterns', constant ringing in his ears , called the guards on me a few times claiming various thing's from parties to me being a drug dealer to me being part of a covert undercover operation , he would sit in his car four hours on end staring into space , he'd talk to you for 2 minutes and then re-start the conversation by asking you who you are and what you are doing there , he warned me that he knew my friends were working with the CIA and we were to stop investigating me , he printed cheap documents claiming to be from a solictor that we are to drop our investigation and leave, he waited by the windows for hours on end looking for 'them'...

Really took a hold of him , in the end the only way we could make sure he was ok was to at times play into the fantasy and convince him we were on his side anything else he wouldn't accept either we played into it or we were against him.

He's improving a bit now, his wife came back and got him some help/meds but there is no cure it's only a matter of time with these thing's , the whole experience frightend me of the illness. I'd honestly rather go.

Remmy · 29-05-2014 01:13PM

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

My Grandmother is really bad and in all honesty, I'll probably never see her again.
The last time I was in Ireland visiting, it was really upsetting. My mother cares for her half of the week in our house but she couldn't leave me alone with her because she would wake up from a nap or something and find a 'stranger' in the house. She would be really scared.

I would have to call my father (a man that in her better days my grandmother despised with a passion) to come home to comfort her.
At other times, she would get really aggressive because she thought i was an intruder.

I've grieved for my granny. A woman who made me who I am today and has always supported me. She's gone now and so is her memory of her first granddaughter who she used to tell everyone about because she was so proud.

I know my presence is no comfort to her and is in fact the opposite. It's scary for her to have a stranger in her house or her daughters house who seems to be making herself at home! I'm a grown woman who had to stand crying in the back hall saying 'This is my house, granny' over and over before eventually having to wait outside until a family member who she recognized could come back.

I feel it would be selfish to inflict myself on her.

That sounds so heartbreaking. I think I'm tough in some ways and able to deal with adversity and setbacks etc but if that ever happened to a loved one of mine I would be broken in two and totally unable to cope.

readyletsgo · 29-05-2014 01:23PM

deco nate wrote: »

Ah, holy ****!! I really hope you people don't have to go through the pain we have gone through! I pray for your parents also, for having kids like you.

You really haven't got a clue about it, yes sometimes they don't know who you are, but
For the most part They know
Those around them they know, be it drifting in and out.

Absolutely 100% agreed here!

People on here who say 'ship me off, I'm a husk, pointless, forget about them/me' are, of course, people who have not gone through having a parent, friend or sibling with dementia and/or alzheimer's or other serious memory problems, in my fathers case, Lewy Body disease, a mixture of a lot of different memory problems, all in one person.

Yes I can totally understand what this guy Sir Ian is saying, and if I was a hard/heartless bastard, maybe I would do it to my dad at this moment instead of going through the past 5 years of everyday being stressfull and doctors and visits to hospitals and falls and panics and getting the house set up for his needs and him not remembering a lot of things, but god damn it, he's my father, the man who gave me life, looked after me, paid for all the rubbish I wanted, housed me and put up with my teenage years. I remember all that and now its my turn to return the favour, no matter what.

He did it for his mother, he remembers it very well and how hard it was for 7 years and thanks me whenever he can in what I and my brother do for him every day. That is all he can do.

Part of life, people get old and have to be looked after, you cant just say 'oh well, that person is finished, off to a home with you while I remember only the parts I want to remember' selfish twat!!!:mad:

God, this makes me so angry!

Ignoring parents with dementia?

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