Diarmuid Connolly

kippy · 29-05-2014 11:56AM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

he was already found guilty and admitted guilt.
yesterday was his sentencing.
I would have though county teams would have codes of discipline for players and management

I've only loosely kept an eye on this case.

The "punishment" isn't really a "punishment" - I assume the judge it giving the guy a chance and hoping he wises up. To be honest, I'd be pretty pi$$ed if I were the victim however - It seems to be a case of letting the guy who does the crime off easily while forgetting about the impact on the victim.
That being said, I hope he does wise up.

On the "codes of discipline" issue.
Controversial here, but its difficult for a club or body to have a code for behaviour outside of the sporting field when some of the behavior that occurs on the field of play would be construed as assault in the "real world". Indeed some of the behavior is encouraged on the field of play in some quarters.
(Not specifically saying anything about Vincents or Dublin GAA, it's just a general comment)

jacko · 29-05-2014 11:58AM

NavyandBlue wrote: »

... Nothing that good parenting couldn't solve.

So are you saying that Connollys parents failed him then?

Ash.J.Williams · 29-05-2014 11:59AM

kippy wrote: »

I've only loosely kept an eye on this case.

The "punishment" isn't really a "punishment" - I assume the judge it giving the guy a chance and hoping he wises up. To be honest, I'd be pretty pi$$ed if I were the victim however - It seems to be a case of letting the guy who does the crime off easily while forgetting about the impact on the victim.
That being said, I hope he does wise up.

On the "codes of discipline" issue.
Controversial here, but its difficult for a club or body to have a code for behaviour outside of the sporting field when some of the behavior that occurs on the field of play would be construed as assault in the "real world". Indeed some of the behavior is encouraged on the field of play in some quarters.
(Not specifically saying anything about Vincents or Dublin GAA, it's just a general comment)

I think Diarmuid can count himself lucky that he assaulted a very reasonable chap.

yop · 29-05-2014 12:20PM

NavyandBlue wrote: »

The analogy with soccer clubs is surely not the best example because that would involve an employment relationship. The club's reputation is much more closely connected to the actions of its employees (as the club is playing their wages) than is the case between the County Board and a County player in the GAA. Also, the contract of employment for soccer players would establish a legal position where the clubs are clearly entitled take such suspensory action - I don't think there is anything with the internal rules of the GAA to cater for this. The intercounty player is not in receipt of remuneration (leaving aside any income they would receive from third party sponsors resulting from their intercounty career) from the GAA, therefore I don't think it would be right for the GAA to insist that the player lives an exemplary off-field lifestyle before they are picked.

And I don't really buy the "think of the children" argument. Nothing that good parenting couldn't solve.

Happens in all sports, have a good for assault, suspension.
Regardless of whether they are paid or not, they are representing their club and county and need to behave in a way that reflects this.

So you think players whether they are GAA/Soccer/Rugby etc don't influence kids?? Ask anyone who coaches kids and ask them what influence the diving from the PL has had on games.

Ash.J.Williams · 29-05-2014 12:23PM

It typical GAA fashion they rally around the star like he's the victim, no doubt he got plenty of sympathy and all are delighted now that he can move on and get on with his life after his 2 year hell/ordeal.

keane2097 · 29-05-2014 12:23PM

yop wrote: »

Happens in all sports, have a good for assault, suspension.
Regardless of whether they are paid or not, they are representing their club and county and need to behave in a way that reflects this.

So you think players whether they are GAA/Soccer/Rugby etc don't influence kids?? Ask anyone who coaches kids and ask them what influence the diving from the PL has had on games.

Era that's only an auld cod. If the coach told his kids before the game that anyone diving would be hauled off and dropped and he followed through with it it would soon stop.

Kids diving in soccer matches on a Saturday morning is the coaches' issue, not Ronaldo's.

You think Sean Cavanagh would carry on diving if Mickey Harte hauled him off for it a few times?

yop · 29-05-2014 12:29PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Era that's only an auld cod. If the coach told his kids before the game that anyone diving would be hauled off and dropped and he followed through with it it would soon stop.

Kids diving in soccer matches on a Saturday morning is the coaches' issue, not Ronaldo's.

You think Sean Cavanagh would carry on diving if Mickey Harte hauled him off for it a few times?

Ok, so where do you think the kids pick up the diving or flicks or free kicks styles from? Where do kids pick up the idea of a new hair style or a collar up or a new colored pair of boots?

The kid sees Rooney doing a bicycle kick or a dive by Ronaldo on a Saturday, so on the Sunday morning a few of them will try it, what is a coach meant to do, watch every game and before the match on the Saturday and then outline what they can or can't do?
Have you coached underage?

keane2097 · 29-05-2014 12:36PM

yop wrote: »

Ok, so where do you think the kids pick up the diving or flicks or free kicks styles from? Where do kids pick up the idea of a new hair style or a collar up or a new colored pair of boots?

The kid sees Rooney doing a bicycle kick or a dive by Ronaldo on a Saturday, so on the Sunday morning a few of them will try it, what is a coach meant to do, watch every game and before the match on the Saturday and then outline what they can or can't do?
Have you coached underage?

If the coach wants to cut out behaviour it's simple. Underage players in my club have been dropped indefinitely for fighting on the pitch etc. One lad got three red cards at U16, didn't play again for the year, was allowed play again at minor and was never in so much as a scuffle.

Abdication of responsibility by adults with actual interaction with kids is a disgrace. Blame the TV my hole.

yop · 29-05-2014 12:40PM

keane2097 wrote: »

If the coach wants to cut out behaviour it's simple. Underage players in my club have been dropped indefinitely for fighting on the pitch etc. One lad got three red cards at U16, didn't play again for the year, was allowed play again at minor and was never in so much as a scuffle.

Abdication of responsibility by adults with actual interaction with kids is a disgrace. Blame the TV my hole.

So would your club then have been banned Diarmuid Connolly indefinitely from your club for his off the pitch fighting?

So kids watching games are not influenced then by what they see is that what you think?

keane2097 · 29-05-2014 12:44PM

yop wrote: »

So kids watching games are not influenced then by what they see is that what you think?

That's not what I think in the slightest. I said it's the coaches' responsibility to disabuse his kids of any odious notions they pick up from other sources and that it is a very simple thing to do. If he can't or doesn't want to or finds himself blaming the TV for things his players do on the pitch I would suggest he take some time to reassess his approach.

Anyway, this thread is about Diarmuid Connolly, not coaches who lack the ability to instruct their teams properly.

keane2097 · 29-05-2014 12:48PM

yop wrote: »

So would your club then have been banned Diarmuid Connolly indefinitely from your club for his off the pitch fighting?

There's a precedent that players who consistently get red cards stop getting game time for an indeterminate period until their attitude has suitably adjusted.

Realistically, with someone like Connolly exceptions are likely to be made by most clubs, but thankfully it's not a problem we typically have to deal with since players are coached with proper discipline at underage level.

This is so obvious. Kids for the vast majority of cases don't dive at GAA or rugby training because it's not accepted by their coaches and peers. Dive, you're told to cop yourself on or you're dropped, while your teammates tell you stop being a wimp.

yop · 29-05-2014 12:49PM

keane2097 wrote: »

That's not what I think in the slightest. I said it's the coaches' responsibility to disabuse his kids of any odious notions they pick up from other sources and that it is a very simple thing to do. If he can't or doesn't want to or finds himself blaming the TV for things his players do on the pitch I would suggest he take some time to reassess his approach.

Anyway, this thread is about Diarmuid Connolly, not coaches who lack the ability to instruct their teams properly.

lol, I will wait until you have responsibility for 25 kids on a training pitch or 20 during a game before you to understand how you might coordinate a teamtalk outlining the dos and don't of what they saw the previous day to a bunch of U10's or U8's, you seemingly haven't coached at underage, until then you can't grasp it and obviously can't assess it.

yop · 29-05-2014 12:53PM

keane2097 wrote: »

There's a precedent that players who consistently get red cards stop getting game time for an indeterminate period until their attitude has suitably adjusted.

Realistically, with someone like Connolly exceptions are likely to be made by most clubs, but thankfully it's not a problem we typically have to deal with since players are coached with proper discipline at underage level.

This is so obvious. Kids for the vast majority of cases don't dive at GAA or rugby training because it's not accepted by their coaches and peers. Dive, you're told to cop yourself on or you're dropped, while your teammates tell you stop being a wimp.

If that applied to all walks of life it would be great, it doesn't.

Who said that kids dive at GAA? Its not just diving, kids are easily influenced, GAA, Rugby, soccer etc etc.

bruschi · 29-05-2014 01:54PM

yop wrote: »

lol, I will wait until you have responsibility for 25 kids on a training pitch or 20 during a game before you to understand how you might coordinate a teamtalk outlining the dos and don't of what they saw the previous day to a bunch of U10's or U8's, you seemingly haven't coached at underage, until then you can't grasp it and obviously can't assess it.

if your issue is what the kids see on the field and copying players, show them the video of Connollys performance in the Club final, that should be enough for them to see how to play football.

if your team talks revolve around watching what has been on tv, then there is something wrong.

I agree, that GAA players are role models, but seriously, there is a line of taking it too far. Do you think your Under 10s are going to go into a bar and lamp some fella across the head because he heard Connolly did it?

freddiek · 29-05-2014 02:54PM

i have not ever come across an interview with Connolly either in print or on camera. Strange as he is undoubtedly one of the best players in the country and taking into account how obsessed the media is with the Dubs.

perhaps he's just not the sharpest tool in the box and the Dubs management are aware of it. as his victim discovered in this instance.

keane2097 · 29-05-2014 03:01PM

yop wrote: »

lol, I will wait until you have responsibility for 25 kids on a training pitch or 20 during a game before you to understand how you might coordinate a teamtalk outlining the dos and don't of what they saw the previous day to a bunch of U10's or U8's, you seemingly haven't coached at underage, until then you can't grasp it and obviously can't assess it.

Wrong again I'm afraid.

Godge · 29-05-2014 05:00PM

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

You've got me - this is a childish attempt to derail Dublin's Championship run so that my own backwater can have a shot.

I have little interest in GAA but this goes beyond and reflects societies attitude to violence - playing for Dublin is a prestigious opportunity. These players are role models. Your "win at all costs" mentality condones the behaviour of this player who has displayed he is violent, aggressive and dangerous both on and off the pitch.

If Dublin GAA wanted to make a statement about violent disorder they should suspend Diarmaid Connolly and condemn outrightly his behaviour - perhaps this would alienate "the hill". Instead, they have said nothing and in doing so, speak volumes about the mentality and lack of morality within GAA circles. Violence is a growing problem in this society - the GAA portray themselves as a bastion of irish society yet when they have had an opportunity to make a statement they have been found wanting.

This is something which really angers me and intend contacting the Dublin GAA county board regarding their apathy. Society has to be consistent in these matters. On one hand, we unreservedly abhor violence yet if somebody can kick a ball, it is acceptable for them to engage in a violent UNPROVOKED vicious assault.

Yes, close the thread when a genuine issue has been raised - maybe you like to keep things light and superficial around here.

Reading these posts is something of an education and helps me understand why society is rapidly disintegrating when such opinions/mentalities exist.

"it only matters what he does on the pitch"
Go cheer your hero with a clear conscience.

Yes, society has to be consistent in these matters.

We appoint judges to be the arbiters of that consistency, we do not allow mob rule or lynching. In this case, the judge ruled that community service was appropriate and it should involve teaching GAA to kids.

Now you believe that this sentence is lenient? You are throwing consistency out the door.

Now you believe that the Dublin GAA should throw the book at him? You are throwing consistency out the door.

MayoAreMagic · 29-05-2014 05:05PM

Godge
Yes, society has to be consistent in these matters.
We appoint judges to be the arbiters of that consistency, we do not allow mob rule or lynching. In this case, the judge ruled that community service was appropriate and it should involve teaching GAA to kids.
Now you believe that this sentence is lenient? You are throwing consistency out the door.
Now you believe that the Dublin GAA should throw the book at him? You are throwing consistency out the door.

No that isn't accurate at all. The belief is that the sentence was more lenient than other sentences handed out for similar crimes, and it is, that was established earlier in the thread via examples. Surely that is actually searching for consistency rather than undermining it?

Godge · 29-05-2014 05:17PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No that isn't accurate at all. The belief is that the sentence was more lenient than other sentences handed out for similar crimes, and it is, that was established earlier in the thread via examples. Surely that is actually searching for consistency rather than undermining it?

No. we didn't. It took until the twelfth convictions for the GAA player in Donegal to get a custodial sentence and James MacCartan didn't even get community service.

What we established is that Diarmuid Connolly's sentence is somewhere in the middle. As we were not in court to judge all of the evidence and hear all of the context, we can only accept the conviction and sentencing as fair.

yop · 29-05-2014 05:18PM

MayoAreMagic - If you press the "QUOTE button there you will quote that persons comment, save you copying and bolding.

Lucas Castroman · 29-05-2014 06:56PM

Godge wrote: »

Yes, society has to be consistent in these matters.

We appoint judges to be the arbiters of that consistency, we do not allow mob rule or lynching. In this case, the judge ruled that community service was appropriate and it should involve teaching GAA to kids.

Now you believe that this sentence is lenient? You are throwing consistency out the door.

Now you believe that the Dublin GAA should throw the book at him? You are throwing consistency out the door.

If this country had a proper legal system Diarmuid Connolly would be sitting in Mountjoy due to attempted manslaughter.

However, you are confusing the two issues. It is already acknowledged that the legal system has once again proved inadequate in sentencing however I am discussing the GAA's code of ethics (or lack thereof). IF he intentionally cracked somebody's skull on the field of play he would receive a criminal sentence (probably 3 weeks teaching Roscommon the nuances of the fist pass) and a lifetime ban from the GAA - would he not? We bury our head in the sand when it happens a few days after a match?

If you are satisfied with your team playing a violent psychopathic thug then I think this reflects most poorly on you. Perhaps you've never had first hand experience of real violence and in that case I'd hope you'd change your tune. I've encountered people like Diarmuid Connolly in my lifetime and I know exactly what he is - but sadly can't explicitly say it here.

Answer me this - Would you be happy with virtually anybody playing for Dublin? A rapist at corner back and a paedophile at full forward?

Nobody is suggesting a "lynching/mob rule" - what I would like is the GAA to make a statement that violent disorder is unacceptable by suspending him for a year. By doing nothing, they condone his behaviour and the slide will continue to an increasingly violent society.
Forget anger management classes, going back to being a nobody electrician could be the best possible treatment for this guy.
I find it sickening that you believe he should waltz back into the Dublin team without any consequences. Just because there is a precedent of turning a blind eye to these matters in the GAA, does not excuse their inaction.

RoscommonTom · 29-05-2014 07:32PM

The jacks would be the first fellas to be shouting and roaring if it was a meath or kerry fella what did this, when its one of their own fellas it's differnt

NavyandBlue · 29-05-2014 07:57PM

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

If this country had a proper legal system Diarmuid Connolly would be sitting in Mountjoy due to attempted manslaughter.

:rolleyes: Exaggeration! If the DPP thought that this offence was committed then I'm sure such charges would have been brought. I think we should defer to her decision on this point. FYI, you can't attempt manslaughter - that's just not possible.

Answer me this - Would you be happy with virtually anybody playing for Dublin? A rapist at corner back and a paedophile at full forward?

Again, more exaggeration. S3 Assault is much less serious than those two offences, as reflected by the statutorily prescribed sentences. There is a grey area as to how bad someone's conduct off the pitch must be before they should not be considered for selection. Rape and Paedophilia are obviously so morally and legally reprehensible that an offender should not be picked. S3/1997, on the other hand, is a minor offence. Do you think the bar should be set so high that the GAA should exclude anyone with a criminal offence no matter how petty?

Nobody is suggesting a "lynching/mob rule" - what I would like is the GAA to make a statement that violent disorder is unacceptable by suspending him for a year. By doing nothing, they condone his behaviour and the slide will continue to an increasingly violent society.
Forget anger management classes, going back to being a nobody electrician could be the best possible treatment for this guy.
I find it sickening that you believe he should waltz back into the Dublin team without any consequences. Just because there is a precedent of turning a blind eye to these matters in the GAA, does not excuse their inaction.

How do they condone his behaviour? Is Liam O'Neill personally endorsing Saturday night assault as a recommended lifestyle? I think most people would be able to disassociate the private actions of citizens from the values and principles of an organisation to which they belong. And I must ask again, how far do you think the non-judicial punishment should extend? Should everyone and every entity in society shun Connolly because of his criminal conviction?

keane2097 · 29-05-2014 08:22PM

lol at "attempted manslaughter", impossible by bloody definition. Surely that's the low point of this thread reached.

corny · 29-05-2014 08:37PM

Hammer Archer wrote: »

I do think this has helped him become a better player. In 2012 and before, he was a liability to Dublin if you look at his red cards against Wexford and Donegal and his antics against Kildare in the O'Byrne Cup, he couldn't be trusted and opposition players knew he would react if they wound him up. He seems to have gotten rid of this aspect of his game and become a better player because of it (unfortunately).

I'm not quite sure he has turned a corner. Look at the replayed Dublin club final last year for example. Got himself sent off for getting involved with McMahon.

He won't ever lose that edge on the pitch imo. Outside of the game i hope he's learned a lesson.

PS This thread is ridiculous now.

rebel girl 15 · 29-05-2014 09:00PM

I'm locking this until I can get onto a computer and edit things

Hammer Archer · 30-05-2014 02:19AM

We're keeping this closed.
It's run its course.

Diarmuid Connolly

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