Some US States to bring back Firing Squads for Death Penalty

No Pants · 27-05-2014 02:12PM

Jagdtiger wrote: »

Think of the environmental impact tho...

Electric buses?

LeinsterDub · 27-05-2014 02:13PM

catallus wrote: »

From the video (2:10 onwards):

"The [excessive cost]
It is the appeals process that shoots up the cost. It is unnecessary and unjust.

Not sure these lads would agree it's unnecessary
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row?scid=6&did=110

YFlyer · 27-05-2014 02:24PM

No Pants wrote: »

I think they send them a load of forms to fill out too.

A full magazine.

kingchess · 27-05-2014 03:11PM

maybe do it idi amin style-give 5 sledge hammers to 10 guys in a cell and last one standing goes free(-well not really free as the prison officials would shoot him after a while)

Manic Moran · 27-05-2014 04:04PM

Sugar Free wrote: »

Just on this, I saw a documentary a while ago discussing this where they apparently used blank ammunition that was able to replicate the effects of live ammunition, including adequate recoil etc.

Only having very limited experience with firearms I'm not in a position to comment on how likely that is but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Where's Manic_Moran these days? His opinion would be useful here.

I'm around. You are quite correct. It is quite possible to replicate recoil with a blank fired from a specially modified rifle. The rifle is a permanent blank firing one with a moving internal piston which gets kicked backwards as the blank is fired.

A variation of the system is used in training in the Army on the simulator range, except the gas expansion is provided pneumatically through a pipe, but from personal experience, the piston effect is quite convincing, especially when the purpose of the exercise is to convince those who want to be convinced in the first place.

Earlier discussions about soldiers knowing the difference by reason of things like spent casings or lack of perceived feel are true, but irrelevant. Military training with blanks is done with rifles designed to fire live rounds from an issued personal weapon, with a little attachment on the end to allow a semi-automatic or automatic weapon to cycle. For the firing squad, the members can be given a random, bolt-action rifle, which need have no purpose other than use in firing squads. The rifle is obtained already loaded (Obviously, so the shooter doesn't get the opportunity to know if it's the blank or not), and after use, returned uncycled and bolt unopened. There is no spent shell casing ejected for anyone to observe (Either for distance or shape).

Nice thing about firing squad, it's one of the few forms of execution which allows for organ donation.

Manic Moran · 27-05-2014 04:40PM

seamus wrote: »

America gets weirder and weirder. Firing squad is fallible. Shot to the head or the heart, you leave wide open the potential for a death that is not instant but instead is painful and barbaric.

Ergo, the 'coup de grace'

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Not a supporter of the Death Penalty at all but couldn't they fashion some sort of remotely fired machine multiple buttoned for this , instead of this blank nonsense?

Such machines have been fashioned, and a few States have actually used them. However, unless there is a lack of volunteers to do it manually (which there certainly isn't), there's little particular point in it.

No Pants · 27-05-2014 04:50PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Ergo, the 'coup de grace'

Do death penalty states have someone standing nearby to perform such an act?

Maphisto · 27-05-2014 04:59PM

osarusan wrote: »

I thought it was the other way round - only one blank, but still the uncertainty.
.

+1 I'm pretty sure its that way round too. Only one person firing a live round would increase the likelihood of a slow death, or even a non fatal wound.

It's a bit of a meager comfort though beause I'm sure most marksman could tell, after the shot was fired.

Edit: Sorry see about 14 people already replied to this - must learn to curb my enthusiasm

Tail Docker · 27-05-2014 05:13PM

I believe they intend switching to harpoons given the increasing girth of the US population.

longhalloween · 27-05-2014 05:19PM

seamus wrote: »

Inert gas asphyxiation. You stick someone in a chamber and slowly replace the oxygen in the chamber with an inert gas like nitrogen. Because the gas is inert, it does not enter the bloodstream or otherwise cause any reaction in the body. The prisoner slowly becomes drowsy and a little high from lack of oxygen before falling unconscious. Leave them in the chamber for 2 hours. Provided that you ensure the oxygen level remains at zero, death is absolutely guaranteed.

So you're put in a room, knowing that the air you breath is going to slowly kill you? Even if you don't feel it, the waiting would be much worse than a quick death by firing squad.

How about the firing squad sneak into your room and shoot you while you sleep. That's the best way.

No Pants · 27-05-2014 05:21PM

longhalloween wrote: »

How about the firing squad sneak into your room and shoot you while you sleep. That's the best way.

A hand grenade in the porridge.

Maphisto · 27-05-2014 05:23PM

Interesting article

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27586067

What seems even more perverse is that she will be allowed to nurse the baby for 2 years before sentence is carried out.

Speechless :mad:

househero · 27-05-2014 05:24PM

Murder is wrong.

A firing squad 'employee' is guilty of pre meditated murder.

There is no difference between a firing squad wearing a us uniform or a Nazi uniform and it should be stopped in any civilized country.

seamus · 27-05-2014 05:29PM

longhalloween wrote: »

So you're put in a room, knowing that the air you breath is going to slowly kill you? Even if you don't feel it, the waiting would be much worse than a quick death by firing squad.

How about the firing squad sneak into your room and shoot you while you sleep. That's the best way.

So you know that at any time someone is going to sneak up on you and kill you, but you have no idea when that is? Yeah, that's totally not going to drive you completely insane.

Call me crazy, but if someone is to be deliberately killed, the very least bit of dignity they can be given is the right to know when and how that's going to happen.

Tail Docker · 27-05-2014 05:30PM

househero wrote: »

Murder is wrong.

A firing squad 'employee' is guilty of pre meditated murder.

There is no difference between a firing squad wearing a us uniform or a Nazi uniform and it should be stopped in any civilized country.

I think you'll find you are wrong. One set fire on the command "fire" and the others fire on the command "schiessen". If you mixed up your fire with your shiessen you'd have a right mess, not to mention the stylish uniforms and general air of arrogance off the Nazi bunch. Also the others like baseball and large cars.

AlanS181824 · 27-05-2014 05:33PM

America is seriously one of the most fecked up countries in the world, so thankfuk I don't live there...

househero · 27-05-2014 05:47PM

143 people on Death Row have subsequently been proven innocent.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 27-05-2014 05:52PM

Decent sized single cells on death row and plenty of other perks, it wouldn't be too bad in someplace like Wyoming where they rarely carry out the sentence.

lolz..

Wibbs · 27-05-2014 05:56PM

Other than the inert gas method outlined by Seamus, the "best" is arguably long drop hanging where the subject's neck breaks and the shock of impact causes instant deep coma, followed by brain death, with the body following within half an hour or so. It's essentially decapitation minus the removal of the actual head. Actual decapitation by a blade may cause pain for a couple of seconds anyway until the massive blood pressure drop causes death. I'd bet you would feel your head drop into the basket anyway. The oft quoted tale of the doctor who witnessed an execution by guillotine in the 19th century and claimed the subject's head was responsive for nearly 20 seconds is a clear fabrication. The photos of the event show no such doctor and the mechanics of execution by guillotine would preclude such a viewing.

An odd aside, but one of the few people still around that witnessed an execution by guillotine is of all people the actor Christopher Lee. He saw one of the last publicly held ones in France when he was a boy. The Nazi's guillotined over ten thousand people which not a lot of folks know and which isn't far off the lower estimates of those executed by the method in the French Revolution.

I am pie · 27-05-2014 05:58PM

househero wrote: »

143 people on Death Row have subsequently been proven innocent.

Disgusting.

That should be the end of the argument about the death sentence.

Aside from that, what is the objective or observed benefit of the death sentence. I doubt it has a material effect on crime rates, interesting to see a comparison for crimes that merit the death sentence in states that apply it and states that don't.

longhalloween · 27-05-2014 06:05PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Actual decapitation by a blade may cause pain for a couple of seconds anyway until the massive blood pressure drop causes death. I'd bet you would feel your head drop into the basket anyway.

Are you saying the head is still alive for a few seconds?

That's not true.

masonchat · 27-05-2014 06:12PM

Read the second half of this http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27215508 and you might like me change your mind, the slower and more painful wouldnt be quite slow enough for either of these scumbags

Custardpi · 27-05-2014 06:18PM

masonchat wrote: »

Read the second half of this http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27215508 and you might like me change your mind, the slower and more painful wouldnt be quite slow enough for either of these scumbags

If I was related to the victims I'd certainly be of that opinion, which would be perfectly understandable. For the state to engage in such behaviour, in a cold blooded & calculated manner however is to bring the institutions of such a state down to the same level as the murderer & by extension to demean its citizens. In a civilised country the state should act as a bulwhark against the worst of our nature, not as an agent for it.

Tail Docker · 27-05-2014 06:25PM

One phone call to the caterers cutting all food orders for the next three months and someone "forgetting" to open the doors or check on them and bingo - a whole new line of cells ready for the next bunch of charmers. Death by neglect. That or revolving floors that lead to a chute into an incinerator.. carrying out the sentence could just be a press of a button...or exploding toilets with a vacuum seat - they settle down with the Times for a read and a poo, suuuuucccckk the seat grabs them and then BOOM. Could be messy though. Or pillow spikes - massive sharp spikes hidden under the pillows - press a button and whoosh, you're a shish-kebab. The possibilities are endless. Or a lethal version of Wipeout - with spike-pits, snake pits, acid baths, sure the possibilities are endless. Or chuck em in to play with the Lions - see how long they are roman around the enclosure for.

Wibbs · 27-05-2014 06:28PM

longhalloween wrote: »

Are you saying the head is still alive for a few seconds?

I'm saying the head might keep a level of awareness for a couple of seconds. Enough to feel the fall into the basket for example, maybe even feel the pain /shock of the wound, but I pointed out the idea of the head being aware for longer than that is highly unlikely from a physiological point of view and the claim that such awareness was observed in one case is bogus(though still quoted on Wikipedia IIRC).

That's not true.

And you'd know this how?

In any case, unlike in a long drop hanging, in beheading by guillotine the brain/head itself gets no massive shock that would spur unconsciousness. The brain goes unconscious/dies from a massive and complete drop in cranial blood pressure which cuts off the supply of oxygen. However there would be residual oxygen in the brain tissues themselves so some awareness if only measured in a couple of seconds might well be expected. I would imagine in most cases the unfortunate victim blacks out in under a second of the blades passage.

preston johnny · 27-05-2014 06:38PM

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

The French had it right. If it was me I would want the guillotine, fast and painless.

Cutting edge technology

Katie1289 · 27-05-2014 06:45PM

There is an American Christian Fundamentalist group on facebook (great start) I cannot remember the name right now but I will find it if ye wish to see.
They posted status calling for public executions to be brought back. Over 300,000 likes. The comments were barbaric. As posters have already said it is just state sanctioned murder. America believes 'Some lives are expendable and we decide who gets to live'. Who is to say rehabilitation is entirely out of the question for anyone?

I am pie · 27-05-2014 06:47PM

masonchat wrote: »

Read the second half of this http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27215508 and you might like me change your mind, the slower and more painful wouldnt be quite slow enough for either of these scumbags

Not for me. Life in prison is the appropriate sentence. Murdering them doesn't help anyone, and it leaves 143 people killed in innocence. No bloodlust can justify that.

Hitchens · 27-05-2014 06:52PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm saying the head might keep a level of awareness for a couple of seconds. Enough to feel the fall into the basket .

a loose head prop? :pac:

The One Who Knocks · 27-05-2014 06:59PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

The thing is that killing someone is always going to be a brutal and potentially violent act no matter how you try to santisise it with terms like 'lethal injection'.

I prefer Europe's approach of just not killing people! The state has to take the moral high ground and not this eye-for-an-eye vengeance approach.

The US and Japan are pretty much the only developed democracies that retain the death penalty and they keep some pretty dubious company - mostly China, Iran, Saudai Arabia etc

The only country in Europe and Central to retain the death penalty is Belarus. Absolutely every other country (even Russia) has gotten rid of it.

Although I'm against capital punishment, nitrogen asphyxiation would be a very humane way to carry it out. See here.

Some US States to bring back Firing Squads for Death Penalty

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