Senior Hurling Championship 2014

feargale · 25-05-2014 09:44PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

And that of course, although if Cork performed better I don't think Waterford would have been so far ahead at half time :P

Do you know why my aunt isn't my uncle?

ShamoBuc · 25-05-2014 09:46PM

feargale wrote: »

RTE1 6p.m. " Antrim 0-22, Laois 0-2"
RTE1 9p.m. "Antrim 0-22, Laois 0-20"

Ahhhh, that makes it much clearer.

Antrim must be pure shít though......not scoring in 3 hours.;)

Hotale.com · 25-05-2014 09:47PM

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Ahhhh, that makes it much clearer.

Antrim must be pure shít though......not scoring in 3 hours.;)

To be fair scoring 18 points in three hours isn't a great turnover either :pac:

feargale · 25-05-2014 09:49PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

I presume the 9pm score was the right one? :pac:

Yes, but imagine if they did it for KK v. Tipp. And they don't bother to give results of Nicky Rackard or Lory Meagher. I guess it wouldn't be sophisticated enough for the m.

feargale · 25-05-2014 09:51PM

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Ahhhh, that makes it much clearer.

Antrim must be pure shít though......not scoring in 3 hours.;)

Maybe Antrim were on their way home while Laois were doing the scoring.

Roquentin · 25-05-2014 09:58PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

It doesn't mean nothing. It has been a great barometer of the shape of Kilkenny teams for well over a decade. But setting that aside, Tommy hasn't been or strongest payer, in championship, in at least two years. I hope I'm wrong and that he makes it back into the team for championship, but I'd be absolutely knocked for six if he was anywhere close to being Kilkennys best player.

But sure we'll see.

Im being serious. Teams dont take the league seriously. Clare and cork last year for example. The intensity goes up for the championship.

The league is used to see players and so on. The reason kilkenny do so well in the league is because they have better skilled players overall and more of them and cody has instilled a working like mentality in the squad. So them playing in second gear is better than other teams in second gear.

Galway in particular use the league to gauge players. Its a sort of trial period.

Expect to see a different clare in the championship. Waterford today almost did one on cork. Cork will be different the next day though.

Last year the whole kilkenny team didnt pull through. I suppose after nearly 15 years of dominance, thats to be expected. I thought though that tommy walsh was still good in 2012.

kilkenny have three games: The leinster final (assuming they beat galway), the semi final and the final and if walsh is starting id expect to see the real deal. Cody wont start him unless he can deliver.

JJ might be playing better, but walsh on his day is still better. When hes fired up he plays like a man possessed. Like i said, league form means nothing, so i wouldnt be surprized if its different come the championship.

Roquentin · 25-05-2014 10:03PM

Galway will struggle to beat laois. Then they will up their game against kilkenny. Kilkenny though aware of what happened in 2012 will be prepared and win. Kilkenny to beat dublin in the final to avenge last year.

Clare to win munster. (if tipp hadnt played their cards in the league, i would have predicted them)

Kilkenny vs clare final

Mountainlad · 25-05-2014 10:20PM

ShamoBuc wrote: »

And rightly so. Made a few bad calls that lead to Waterford scores.

All refs make mistakes but I did think he nearly cost us, taking nothing away from the Waterford performance.

Few decisions went yet way too. Say it was even enough. What was the last free for, was it shown?

ShamoBuc · 25-05-2014 10:24PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

Few decisions went yet way too. Say it was even enough. What was the last free for, was it shown?

Didn't watch tsg, was it the late challenge on Nash, or was that earlier.

Grats · 25-05-2014 10:57PM

Cork will feel hard done by

legendary.xix · 25-05-2014 11:08PM

Congrats to Antrim and Laois on a good qualification campaign. Good luck to both counties in the Leinster SHC proper.

Mountainlad · 26-05-2014 08:36AM

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Didn't watch tsg, was it the late challenge on Nash, or was that earlier.

Seemed the only thing that would make sense but Gleeson was on the ground, and the Waterford lads weren't happy. That said, he could have been trying to pull a fast one.

robbiezero · 26-05-2014 09:09AM

Roquentin wrote: »

Im being serious. Teams dont take the league seriously. Clare and cork last year for example. The intensity goes up for the championship.

The league is used to see players and so on. The reason kilkenny do so well in the league is because they have better skilled players overall and more of them and cody has instilled a working like mentality in the squad. So them playing in second gear is better than other teams in second gear.

Galway in particular use the league to gauge players. Its a sort of trial period.

Expect to see a different clare in the championship. Waterford today almost did one on cork. Cork will be different the next day though.

Last year the whole kilkenny team didnt pull through. I suppose after nearly 15 years of dominance, thats to be expected. I thought though that tommy walsh was still good in 2012.

kilkenny have three games: The leinster final (assuming they beat galway), the semi final and the final and if walsh is starting id expect to see the real deal. Cody wont start him unless he can deliver.

JJ might be playing better, but walsh on his day is still better. When hes fired up he plays like a man possessed. Like i said, league form means nothing, so i wouldnt be surprized if its different come the championship.

I think teams do take the league quite seriously. Why do you think Clare and Cork didn't take it seriously last year? I think it was a fair barometer of where they were at the time. Clare progressed hugely through the year with the more matches they played, but the league was a reasonably barometer of where they were. They were comfortably beaten by Cork in the Munster championship and nearly knocked out by Wexford.

Likewise there is no suggestion that Cork didn't take the league seriously it was a fair barometer of where they were. They got a very favourable run through the qualifiers with crucial sendings off v KK and Dublin and meeting a KK team at its lowest point in 15 years.

I don't think the intensity of todays match was up that much on that of the league. It was certainly nowhere near the league final anyway.

I'm not sure Cork will be all that different the next day either, they should learn enough from today to beat Waterford in the replay, but they are not a very good team and if they get anywhere near an All-Ireland this year I will be amazed.

I do agree though that we only saw Clare at 50% during the league and will see a massive improvement come championship, but this is no unusual for the All-Ireland champions.

robbiezero · 26-05-2014 09:13AM

Grats wrote: »

Worryingly for Waterford in the replay is that so many of the Cork big guns didn't fire today and still managed to draw. Conversely, Waterford looked dead on their feet in the second half and two weeks training should bring them on a ton, to say nothing about the confidence gained from running Cork so close.

I hadn't given Waterford any hope today with all the injuries but once again the display from the young guys shows that youth is the way to success.

What big guns?
Horgan had a good second half and helped to drag them back into the game. Lehane and Cronin are very inconsistent and Waterford certainly have better players in their opposing positions - Walsh, Nagle, Moran etc. Harnedy was probably surprisingly poor, Shane O Neill also, but other than that I'm not sure that you could guarantee an improved performance out of much of the others.

Roquentin · 26-05-2014 12:19PM

I think teams do take the league quite seriously. Why do you think Clare and Cork didn't take it seriously last year? I think it was a fair barometer of where they were at the time. Clare progressed hugely through the year with the more matches they played, but the league was a reasonably barometer of where they were. They were comfortably beaten by Cork in the Munster championship and nearly knocked out by Wexford.

You dont suddenly make a quantum leap like clare did in hurling last year. Clare didnt pay attention to the league, like many teams dont. It was a training exercise for them. Same with galway, cork, waterford. Then for the big matches they up their mentality and intensity. You cant go from being that poor to that good, unless you are not taking the league seriously

The league has lost its mojo

Likewise there is no suggestion that Cork didn't take the league seriously it was a fair barometer of where they were. They got a very favourable run through the qualifiers with crucial sendings off v KK and Dublin and meeting a KK team at its lowest point in 15 years.

In fairness cork destroyed kilkenny that day. Again it has nothing to do with cork progressing. What happens is the psychology is different of the match is different. They go from playing in a league that is redundant to them, to playing in the championship which carries weight

I'm not sure Cork will be all that different the next day either, they should learn enough from today to beat Waterford in the replay, but they are not a very good team and if they get anywhere near an All-Ireland this year I will be amazed.

I think they lack the individual talent, but are a fairly good team. Kind of similar to galway in that respect

It is very hard to motivate yourself continuously for big matches. So what teams do is they bypass the league and then in the championship, they completely up their game. If a team like galway or cork had to play the league and championship at both the same level they would tire out mentally. So what they do is relax during the league and up the game considerably during the big matches.

Hotale.com · 26-05-2014 01:36PM

Cork were in division 1b, they played shockingly and were completely uninterested in every game and still ended up getting promoted above Limerick. If they actually took that league seriously they'd have won every game by a good 15 points, no disrespect to the opposition, that's simply a fact.

And like I've said before, Cork never take the league seriously. Won it twice in the past 32 years.

adrian522 · 26-05-2014 01:43PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

If they actually took that league seriously they'd have won every game by a good 15 points, no disrespect to the opposition, that's simply a fact.

Because of course that's exactly the score they beat Limerick by in the Munster final? Or were they not taking that seriously either?

Vanolder · 26-05-2014 01:45PM

Yesterday's match only highlights how soft last year's all Ireland was... Clare will never win a handier one.

Hotale.com · 26-05-2014 01:50PM

adrian522 wrote: »

Because of course that's exactly the score they beat Limerick by in the Munster final? Or were they not taking that seriously either?

I forgot about Limerick.

Roquentin · 26-05-2014 01:57PM

Vanolder wrote: »

Yesterday's match only highlights how soft last year's all Ireland was... Clare will never win a handier one.

There is substance to this post. Tipp and kilkenny last year took a vacation. Galway were and probably still are in disarray.

In fairness to cork they took the fight to clare, just missing a bit of class in the forward line.

I would say clare will beat tipp, but only once. If they meet twice, tipp will win one. And if clare meet kilkenny, its gona be a different kettle of fish to cork. A fired up Brian Cody kilkenny who want to make a statement are unstoppable.

Im praying for a clare kilkenny final, just to see the fireworks.

robbiezero · 26-05-2014 02:02PM

Roquentin wrote: »

You dont suddenly make a quantum leap like clare did in hurling last year. Clare didnt pay attention to the league, like many teams dont. It was a training exercise for them. Same with galway, cork, waterford. Then for the big matches they up their mentality and intensity. You cant go from being that poor to that good, unless you are not taking the league seriously

Clare didn't suddenly make a quantum leap.
Just about got over a dire Waterford in first round of championship, well beaten by Cork after a poor performance.
Needed extra time to get over Wexford.

They got gradually better as the year went on, there was no sudden leap. One would have imagined that they were trying their best in the Munster championship and v Wexford.

Roquentin · 26-05-2014 02:03PM

adrian522 wrote: »

Because of course that's exactly the score they beat Limerick by in the Munster final? Or were they not taking that seriously either?

What happened in that match, is cork underestimated the opposition. Psychology is such a powerful tool. Cork played them in the league, beat them handy and thought, limerick wont put up much of a fight in the munster final.

Then limerick come out all guns blazing and cork were still asleep.

Its the same what happened kilkenny in the leinster final in 2012 against galway. Just not expecting such an attack.

Teams like limerick, galway, waterford, because they are deficient in talent, only get maybe one or two bites of the cherry. other teams then realize they will have to up their own game to beat them and do so appropriately.

Limerick pulled a surprize in the munster final, but clare were predicting it and so beat them handy.

Roquentin · 26-05-2014 02:15PM

robbiezero wrote: »

Clare didn't suddenly make a quantum leap.
Just about got over a dire Waterford in first round of championship, well beaten by Cork after a poor performance.
Needed extra time to get over Wexford.

They got gradually better as the year went on, there was no sudden leap. One would have imagined that they were trying their best in the Munster championship and v Wexford.

I meant with regards their abysmal league form. My point being their championship play was more intense than their league play.

They still beat them didnt they. As i said in an earlier post, players cant keep motivating themselves for every match. So they concentrate on the big matches. What clare did was they came in relaxed to cork, waterford, wexford.

Then against galway, limerick and cork twice, they upped their game. Psychologically they are more fired up. Its exactly what cork did for the championship. Kilkenny, dublin.....

There was a big jump between when they played galway and how clare had played up to that. More energy, more physicality, more hunger. Its the same team, so what has happened? Just more psyched up for those matches.

The gradual progression argument in my opinion is wrong. Clare were picking which matches to really go at it. Then in the league this year, they were poor. They will be different though in the championship. Cork are the same.

robbiezero · 26-05-2014 02:31PM

Roquentin wrote: »

I meant with regards their abysmal league form. My point being their championship play was more intense than their league play.

They still beat them didnt they. As i said in an earlier post, players cant keep motivating themselves for every match. So they concentrate on the big matches. What clare did was they came in relaxed to cork, waterford, wexford.

Then against galway, limerick and cork twice, they upped their game. Psychologically they are more fired up. Its exactly what cork did for the championship. Kilkenny, dublin.....

There was a big jump between when they played galway and how clare had played up to that. More energy, more physicality, more hunger. Its the same team, so what has happened? Just more psyched up for those matches.

The gradual progression argument in my opinion is wrong. Clare were picking which matches to really go at it. Then in the league this year, they were poor. They will be different though in the championship. Cork are the same.

We can agree to disagree.
After losing to Cork, Clare could have got Kilkenny down in Nowlan Park. I firmly believe that would have seen them exit the championship as it did Tipp.

I stand by my gradual progression argument. There is no way the Clare team of last year were able to "pick and choose" which matches they would "really go at it".
I have no doubt they were flat out in all their Munster championship games and qualifiers, while probably slackening off near the end v Wexford with a big lead.

Realt Dearg Sec · 26-05-2014 02:46PM

Roquentin wrote: »

What happened in that match, is cork underestimated the opposition. Psychology is such a powerful tool. Cork played them in the league, beat them handy and thought, limerick wont put up much of a fight in the munster final.

.

They didn't play each other in the league last year.

MfMan · 26-05-2014 02:55PM

Roquentin wrote: »

Galway will struggle to beat laois. Then they will up their game against kilkenny. Kilkenny though aware of what happened in 2012 will be prepared and win. Kilkenny to beat dublin in the final to avenge last year.

Clare to win munster. (if tipp hadnt played their cards in the league, i would have predicted them)

Kilkenny vs clare final

Why?

IrishAlice · 26-05-2014 03:30PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

It doesn't mean nothing. It has been a great barometer of the shape of Kilkenny teams for well over a decade. But setting that aside, Tommy hasn't been or strongest payer, in championship, in at least two years. I hope I'm wrong and that he makes it back into the team for championship, but I'd be absolutely knocked for six if he was anywhere close to being Kilkennys best player.

But sure we'll see.

By all accounts Tommy was on fire in the challenge match against Clare a couple of weeks ago.

His form does always seem to be that he comes good by championship season. He's definitely not as good as he was a few years ago but I think he could potentially play a pivotal role this year.

Vanolder · 26-05-2014 03:39PM

Roquentin wrote: »

What happened in that match, is cork underestimated the opposition. Psychology is such a powerful tool. Cork played them in the league, beat them handy and thought, limerick wont put up much of a fight in the munster final.

Then limerick come out all guns blazing and cork were still asleep.

Its the same what happened kilkenny in the leinster final in 2012 against galway. Just not expecting such an attack.

Teams like limerick, galway, waterford, because they are deficient in talent, only get maybe one or two bites of the cherry. other teams then realize they will have to up their own game to beat them and do so appropriately.

Limerick pulled a surprize in the munster final, but clare were predicting it and so beat them handy.

None of that makes sense---- Limerick and Cork didn't play in the league last year. It was a Munster final, Limerick had just physically blown Tipp off the pitch in the semi final- And you are telling me Cork underestimated them?? :rolleyes:

Roquentin · 26-05-2014 03:44PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

They didn't play each other in the league last year.

i was going by what someone earlier had posted. my bad.

Roquentin · 26-05-2014 03:45PM

MfMan wrote: »

Why?

not fired up more than likely. They will pull away towards the end id say, but wont win comfortably

Senior Hurling Championship 2014

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