Senior Hurling Championship 2014

Grats · 24-05-2014 12:52PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Maybe I was wrong to call Canning the best player at the moment, but I certainly don't think that there's any players "miles ahead" of him, and I think this is probably the most difficult year to pick the best player currently because the championship's so open.

We simply don't have a clue who's the best. Nearly all of last year's all stars had their first good season last year, and most of the all stars from previous years (Shefflin etc.) either had a poor season last year or are getting too old to be up there with the best.

Agreed. Since you keep mentioning Shefflin in relation to Canning - nobody expects Shefflin to be the best currently, he's done it from the age of 19 since 1999 consistently. Canning was tipped/expected to take over Shefflin's "title" each year since he appeared on the scene over seven years ago - he hasn't. If he doesn't do it now that Shefflin is on the way out he'll never do it. For Canning to be put in the same league as Shefflin he has to perform consistently at the highest level for the remainder of his career. Obviously he will need his team mates to assist him but he must also show a bigger appetite for winning the dirty ball through work rate and leadership.

Roquentin · 24-05-2014 01:03PM

Grats wrote: »

Of all the years to pick Canning as the best player around I think so far this year you couldn't stand over that choice.

During his career to date he mirrors Galway's success at minor and under 21 but conversely he also mirrors their failure at senior level. He was a brilliant underage player, as is Galway at that level, but he didn't exactly convert that at senior just like his county team. There is no doubting his tremendous skill but he does lack the work rate and leadership required to put him up there with the best. Free taking and line balls are not enough anymore as there are great free takers on most senior county teams now. In fact Galway don't need him as a free taker anymore which may not be a bad thing as he can concentrate on other aspects of his game. It's 1988 since Galway won a senior title, players are peaking at a much earlier age now, Canning is going on 26 - time is running out for him.

But its a team sport. He cant win it on his own. Tipps Eoin kelly was another genius of a hurler who should have won more than two all irelands. I used just watch him when i was young, scoring points over his shoulder. Unreal, but he wasnt in as a good a team as kilkenny.

Roquentin · 24-05-2014 01:04PM

Grats wrote: »

Agreed. Since you keep mentioning Shefflin in relation to Canning - nobody expects Shefflin to be the best currently, he's done it from the age of 19 since 1999 consistently. Canning was tipped/expected to take over Shefflin's "title" each year since he appeared on the scene over seven years ago - he hasn't. If he doesn't do it now that Shefflin is on the way out he'll never do it. For Canning to be put in the same league as Shefflin he has to perform consistently at the highest level for the remainder of his career. Obviously he will need his team mates to assist him but he must also show a bigger appetite for winning the dirty ball through work rate and leadership.

When you have got a team like galway who are all fighting with each other, that becomes very difficult.

Grats · 24-05-2014 01:27PM

Eoin Kelly was and will always be classed among the greats, ahead of Canning at present. He had skill, work rate and leadership. It didn't matter that he was involved with average Tipp teams. Just as recently as 2012 Shefflin, though "past his best", grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck and led Kilkenny to glory.

GrandSoftDay · 24-05-2014 01:30PM

Good analysis here from Donal Og I think! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UmvGYCfXHEY

24-05-2014 01:38PM

Grats wrote: »

Eoin Kelly was and will always be classed among the greats, ahead of Canning at present. He had skill, work rate and leadership. It didn't matter that he was involved with average Tipp teams. Just as recently as 2012 Shefflin, though "past his best", grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck and led Kilkenny to glory.

In 2012, very few would disagree that Shefflin was still on top of his game. Cant help feeling though that the injury he sustained that following winter may have been a bridge too far. He just hasnt been the same since apart from one or two flashes. His reflexes seems to be lagging behind what has become an even more physically demanding game. Now he might draw from the well one last time but i think we could be seeing Shefflin's final year in a Kilkenny shirt regardless of whether they win the All Ireland or not. As for Eoin Kelly, id be a massive fan of his and often witnessed him dragging us kicking and screaming through games but its very sad to see him now. His time is well and truly done. Dropped that 10% in both 2011 and 2012 and sadly has been a total irrelevance in 13 and 14. Harsh i know but the evidence is in front of us is hard to ignore.

24-05-2014 01:49PM

Joe Canning is a class act on his day but i feel at intercounty level he hasnt quite fulfilled his promise. He has showed glimpses of it notably the leinster final in 2012 where he gave a tour de force but overall for whatever reason he has been unable to do it on a consistent basis for Galway. Eugene Cloonan before him for example would have been a better more consistent county player certainly in the early noughties.

It should be noted that Cloonan had less games to play with Galway and his inter-county career ended probably earlier then it should have

Grats · 24-05-2014 02:41PM

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Good analysis here from Donal Og I think! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UmvGYCfXHEY

Can your read this anywhere, rather than watching him?

Grats · 24-05-2014 02:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Joe Canning is a class act on his day but i feel at intercounty level he hasnt quite fulfilled his promise. He has showed glimpses of it notably the leinster final in 2012 where he gave a tour de force but overall for whatever reason he has been unable to do it on a consistent basis for Galway. Eugene Cloonan before him for example would have been a better more consistent county player certainly in the early noughties.

It should be noted that Cloonan had less games to play with Galway and his inter-county career ended probably earlier then it should have

Very true. With regards to that performance by Canning in 2012 - did Galway put on that terrific display because of Canning, or did Canning put on his terrific performance because of Galway? They were superior all over the field that day.

citykat · 24-05-2014 03:04PM

Roquentin wrote: »

Think of it like this, Barcelona have won feck all this year, but messi is still the best player in the world (not ronaldo!). Galway the team are poor, but canning is the star man, but he cant do it all on his own.

If hurling were an individual sport, canning would win everything.

Shefflin is still the best ive seen. Tommy walsh pound for pound the best ive seen. But at the moment Canning is the best hurler in the country. And the chances are high that he wont win an all ireland.

What has Canning done since 2012 at inter county level?

Grats · 24-05-2014 03:25PM

citykat wrote: »

What has Canning done since 2012 at inter county level?

There is no denying but that he is one of the most skilful hurlers in recent years. Nor can it be denied that he hasn't reached his potential and may never. Unless he manages to up his work rate and leadership he will never be up there with the all time greats. After been on the senior scene for over seven years now occasional splashes of brilliance won't be enough at this stage.

deisedude · 24-05-2014 03:26PM

Roquentin wrote: »

Horgan is worth his salt. Harnedy i didnt notice last year (seriously. will watch out for him now). Pa cronin was very poor. Hed go up to catch a sliótar and fall over. Lehane is like the GAA version of forest gump. He gets the sliótar and takes off running. very quick i must say but doesnt have the hurling. Reminds me of donie ryan i think it who used play for limerick.

Like you say, we will see how good they are. They may have a good team, but speculating, they lack in comparison to older cork teams.

I dont know, maybe i just dont like the style of hurling. They start hand passing from their own 21 up to the oppositions 21. Im more of the kilkenny, "get the ball and drive it as far as you can" style.

I can't take your opinion seriously if you don't know who Harnedy is

citykat · 24-05-2014 04:25PM

This is my last post on Canning. Contrast him with Joe Cooney who was in his day the best hurler in the country. Cooney won back to back AIs with Galway. While he played on a better Galway team, he Always lead the team. He generally played at centre forward, was centrally involved in everything the team did and when his teammates needed him most he was never found wanting. Can anybody honestly say the same about Joe Canning?

Roquentin · 24-05-2014 05:56PM

deisedude wrote: »

I can't take your opinion seriously if you don't know who Harnedy is

That hurt Deisedude. That really cut to the core of me.

But then i realize, its a forum so opinions matter not. Im probably not even in the same country as you....;)

Roquentin · 24-05-2014 06:01PM

citykat wrote: »

This is my last post on Canning. Contrast him with Joe Cooney who was in his day the best hurler in the country. Cooney won back to back AIs with Galway. While he played on a better Galway team, he Always lead the team. He generally played at centre forward, was centrally involved in everything the team did and when his teammates needed him most he was never found wanting. Can anybody honestly say the same about Joe Canning?

Canning leads the team, but the rest of the team isnt good enough. The galway players are either too small, not skillful enough or dont have the mentality for the big occasion (mainly the forwards).

George Best won nothing with Northern Ireland for the same reason. Didnt even play in a world cup. There is only so much one man can do on the pitch.

GrandSoftDay · 24-05-2014 06:12PM

Grats wrote: »

Can your read this anywhere, rather than watching him?

Don't think so but might be worth a google!

ShamoBuc · 24-05-2014 07:38PM

Haven't read this thread in a while. It has somehow become a .....
who is better than canning and.... Who is Harnedy thread. Canning has gone seriously off the boil and Harnedy is simply a class hurler.

Martin567 · 24-05-2014 07:38PM

Roquentin wrote: »

Canning leads the team, but the rest of the team isnt good enough. The galway players are either too small, not skillful enough or dont have the mentality for the big occasion (mainly the forwards).

I think you're talking in terms of how things were or might have been expected to remain rather than how they are. Joe has enormous ability but he hasn't done anything to justify the above words in quite some time.

Hotale.com · 24-05-2014 07:42PM

I think going back on topic would be a good idea unless we want this to get locked....

What does everyone think of Clare's chances this year so? I'm predicting that they'll win Munster and lose the Semi Final, just don't see them winning it.

Realt Dearg Sec · 24-05-2014 07:46PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

I think going back on topic would be a good idea unless we want this to get locked....

What does everyone think of Clare's chances this year so? I'm predicting that they'll win Munster and lose the Semi Final, just don't see them winning it.

I agree. I mean, I dunno if they'll win Munster but I can't see them going all the way anyway.

ShamoBuc · 24-05-2014 07:49PM

Very hard to win back to back, but they should be there or there about nontheless.

billyhead · 24-05-2014 08:01PM

Agree with this. Clare had a lucky run last year. I think it will be a Cork v Kilkenny final with Kilkenny winning out.

Grats · 24-05-2014 08:02PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

I think going back on topic would be a good idea unless we want this to get locked....

What does everyone think of Clare's chances this year so? I'm predicting that they'll win Munster and lose the Semi Final, just don't see them winning it.

Many of us expressed our views on the championship before the topic got side tracked. Have a look back before you joined in.

Hotale.com · 24-05-2014 08:34PM

Grats wrote: »

Many of us expressed our views on the championship before the topic got side tracked. Have a look back before you joined in.

I joined in at post 10 and gave a rather detailed post on how I think the championship will unfold. :P

Roquentin · 24-05-2014 08:48PM

Clare vs Kilkenny final with kilkenny to win

Fireball07 · 25-05-2014 03:52PM

Bit early to be predicting All-Ireland winners, I think, I reckon it's going to be very close like last year. 4 or 5 tams are pretty even- with Kilkenny probably justified favourites, but Clare have just loads of talent.

Anyway, Munster Championship gets up and running today. Waterford have picked a slightly odd team imo... no Ray Barry, Colin Dunford in and they're missing the likes of Philip Mahony, Shane O'Sullivan, Maurice Shanahan and Shane Fives.

Don't think Ellis is a centre-back for Cork, but they should just about have the edge. They have the scoring forwards in Horgan, Harnedy, Lehane and Cadogan to win this game. Can see there being a few goals in it.

Grats · 25-05-2014 06:27PM

Worryingly for Waterford in the replay is that so many of the Cork big guns didn't fire today and still managed to draw. Conversely, Waterford looked dead on their feet in the second half and two weeks training should bring them on a ton, to say nothing about the confidence gained from running Cork so close.

I hadn't given Waterford any hope today with all the injuries but once again the display from the young guys shows that youth is the way to success.

Roquentin · 25-05-2014 06:29PM

Grats wrote: »

Worryingly for Waterford in the replay is that so many of the Cork big guns didn't fire today and still managed to draw. Conversely, Waterford looked dead on their feet in the second half and two weeks training should bring them on a ton, to say nothing about the confidence gained from running Cork so close.

I hadn't given Waterford any hope today with all the injuries but once again the display from the young guys shows that youth is the way to success.

Ran out of steam towards the end alright

randd1 · 25-05-2014 06:49PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Maybe I was wrong to call Canning the best player at the moment, but I certainly don't think that there's any players "miles ahead" of him, and I think this is probably the most difficult year to pick the best player currently because the championship's so open.

We simply don't have a clue who's the best. Nearly all of last year's all stars had their first good season last year, and most of the all stars from previous years (Shefflin etc.) either had a poor season last year or are getting too old to be up there with the best.

Canning is nowhere near the best player around at the moment. At the moment, he's not even the best player in the Galway side, for consistency that would go to Fergal Moore.

The most consistent player can only ever be counted as the best player around at any moment, and at this moment that man is the greatest player of his generation.

That man is JJ Delaney. In his 30's and still as good as ever, and he's not even in his natural position. Its not his skills that make him the best, there's more skillful hurlers out there. Its his sheer consistent brilliance that makes him still the best around.

randd1 · 25-05-2014 06:57PM

Grats wrote: »

Worryingly for Waterford in the replay is that so many of the Cork big guns didn't fire today and still managed to draw. Conversely, Waterford looked dead on their feet in the second half and two weeks training should bring them on a ton, to say nothing about the confidence gained from running Cork so close.

I hadn't given Waterford any hope today with all the injuries but once again the display from the young guys shows that youth is the way to success.

That was the biggest turning point of the game. They were in control until they just ran out of legs.

Cork didn't play well, but at the same time they weren't let. Waterford dragged their defense all over the place, and crowded them out in the forwards.
It wasn't until Waterford's legs went that Cork got the space to operate in and the good ball from the backs, which they used very well.

It was the same with the league QF against Tipp, when Tipp were open in the first half Cork went on a scoring spree. But when Tipp closed down the space on Cork, Tipp took over and completely dominated.

Physically and work rate-wise, Waterford won hands down, they turned it into a battle and won the battle, Cork just couldn't handle the war of attrition. It was only when they got space that Cork came into it.

Senior Hurling Championship 2014

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