Senior Hurling Championship 2014

Mountainlad · 23-05-2014 08:40AM

savannahkat wrote: »

Mountainlad wrote: »

You could probably make a similar argument about Kilkenny if you really tried hard enough.

I am not disputing that at all if you base it on the past 12 months however if you want to judge it over 5 years, Kilkenny have a consistent record, Tipp do not.
I have seen nothing other that the printed word mostly quotes coming from the Tipp manager and some of the Tipp players about how great they are going. I did not see it in the league final.
They lost to a Kilkenny team playing poorly enough. Tipp played to their best in the same league final, Kilkenny did not, and there in lies the actual state of play.

If you judge Clare over a 5 period you have a team that had won I think 1 championship game until last year? Or Dublin the boys that got knocked out by Antrim and were abysmal in 2012.

Tipp have won an all Ireland and contested two more. Not sure why you'd judge it over a 5 year period, but Tipp are the most consistent team outside of Kilkenny in that time.

I just don't get how you could possibly decide that Tipp were playing their best, and Kilkenny were playing poorly in the league final. Afraid I just cant regard that as impartial analysis on your behalf.

glued · 23-05-2014 08:44AM

savannahkat wrote: »

What have Tipp done. They lost to Limerick and Kilkenny in last years championship. They were erratic in the early part of this years league. They beat Dublin by 3 points They had the one good win over Clare before losing to a very unfit Kilkenny team in their own backyard. It is not knocking Tipp but their record is anything but great. Apart from the win over Clare what have they done that would make any one look up and take notice. They have a long way to go and no amount of words from anyone scribe or manager will make them better than they really are.

That's a terribly simplistic view. Tipp probably should of beaten Kilkenny in the league final bar for a few soft decisions. On another day you get those decisions and Tipp win that game by a couple of points. Also I don't know where you're getting this unfit stuff from; no team is fully along with their training programme at the minute. Tipp beat Cork with relative ease in the first game of the playoff too and silly mistakes let Cork back in; I'm not really sure what you want them to do? Kilkenny haven't really done anything either in your view so. Although looking at your previous posts on Tipperary I'm not surprised. Some really childish stuff in there so in the context of things I'll just jot this one down to another piece of nonsense.

Also you posted this only four weeks ago:

savannahkat wrote: »

I would rate Tipp as the biggest challengers to Kilkenny this year with Galway ahead of both Clare, Dublin and Cork.

Which is it? Kilkenny's biggest challengers or what have Tipp done? Make your mind up will you?

glued · 23-05-2014 08:51AM

I also think people are underrating Waterford. Yes the league was poor for them but I wouldn't be surprised to see them in a close game with Cork on Sunday.

Grats · 23-05-2014 09:17AM

According to some experts JBM wasn't too bothered about the league quarter final against Tipp. Despite having a very under strength team in the match they put it up to Tipp. And Tipp went on to lose the league final despite playing the better hurling!

Anyway that was the league, this is the championship, and Cork are now at full strength while Waterford couldn't be more under strength. In the circumstances Waterford haven't a hope, unfortunately, and the Rebels should win comfortably. Waterford will have a chance to regroup through the back door and may progress. Cork won't really know their full potential until they meet Clare.

premierstone · 23-05-2014 11:31AM

To be fair in light of some recent excellent insightfull and impartial posts I have to agree, Tipp are rubbish and will be lucky if Limerick don't actually hockey us, we were lucky against Dublin, Cork have no interest in the league, Clare were not interested either and KK were unfit.

This all despite the fact that it is 6 years since a team other than KK knocked Tipp out of the championship, as for the poster who claime EOS said that Tipp are going great, I will persoanlly offer that man €100 if he can show me a single quote from Eamon claiming anything of the sort!

Roquentin · 23-05-2014 12:54PM

I think tipp made a mistake by coming out in the league. They should have saved themselves for the championship. Clare will now know how to take them.

Id say kilkenny vs clare final.

Galway will do well one match and that will be there championship. Dublin are erratic. Cork really are poor in comparison to older cork teams.

eigrod · 23-05-2014 03:20PM

I would expect Tipperary, Clare and Kilkenny to be in the AI semi finals and to be joined by one of Cork, Dublin or Galway.

randd1 · 23-05-2014 04:47PM

eigrod wrote: »

I would expect Tipperary, Clare and Kilkenny to be in the AI semi finals and to be joined by one of Cork, Dublin or Galway.

I second that, think the three for the SF's have the strongest panels, and in Kilkenny and Tipp the two strongest defenses. Of the other three, I fancy Dublin to make the semis as it will be likelier they will be in the provincial decider than Cork and Galway which means less banana skins for them by avoiding the qualifiers.

PTH2009 · 23-05-2014 05:32PM

Munster

QF
Waterford vs Cork- Cork

SF
Tipp vs Limerick- Tipp
Clare vs Cork- Clare

F
Tipp vs Clare- Tipp

Leinster

QF
Galway vs Antrim- Galway
Wexford vs Laois- Wexford
Kilkenny vs Offaly- Kilkenny

SF
Dublin vs Wexford- Dublin
Kilkenny vs Galway- Kilkenny

F
Dublin vs Kilkenny- Kilkenny

All Ireland

1st Round (I made the draw up myself)
Antrim vs Limerick- Limerick
Galway vs Waterford- Galway
Wexford vs Cork- Cork
Offaly vs Laois- Laois

2nd Round
Limerick vs Laois- Limerck
Galway vs Cork- Galway

QF
Limerick vs Dublin- Dublin
Galway vs Clare- Clare

SF
Clare vs Kilkenny- Kilkenny
Dublin vs Tipp- Tipp

F
Kilkenny vs Tipp- Kilkenny

Hotale.com · 23-05-2014 05:37PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Munster

QF
Waterford vs Cork- Cork

SF
Tipp vs Limerick- Tipp
Clare vs Cork- Clare

F
Tipp vs Clare- Tipp

Leinster

QF
Galway vs Antrim- Galway
Wexford vs Laois- Wexford
Kilkenny vs Offaly- Kilkenny

SF
Dublin vs Wexford- Dublin
Kilkenny vs Galway- Kilkenny

F
Dublin vs Kilkenny- Kilkenny

All Ireland

1st Round (I made the draw up myself)
Antrim vs Limerick- Limerick
Galway vs Waterford- Galway
Wexford vs Cork- Cork
Offaly vs Laois- Laois

2nd Round
Limerick vs Laois- Limerck
Galway vs Cork- Galway

QF
Limerick vs Dublin- Dublin
Galway vs Clare- Clare

SF
Clare vs Kilkenny- Kilkenny
Dublin vs Tipp- Tipp

F
Kilkenny vs Tipp- Kilkenny

You think Galway would beat Cork?

Mountainlad · 23-05-2014 06:11PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

You think Galway would beat Cork?

Why does that sound absurd to you?

GerB40 · 23-05-2014 06:17PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

You think Galway would beat Cork?

Galway at their best can beat anyone but their best performances are few and far between..

Hotale.com · 23-05-2014 06:26PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

Why does that sound absurd to you?

Their performances are so erratic, I agree that on their best day they can beat anyone but they can be just as woeful as they can be wonderful. Last year they were absolutely brutal.

Realt Dearg Sec · 23-05-2014 06:36PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Their performances are so erratic, I agree that on their best day they can beat anyone but they can be just as woeful as they can be wonderful. Last year they were absolutely brutal.

Yeah but it's hardly the most outlandish prediction ever, warranting no fewer than five question marks in your flabbergasted response.

I mean, what have Cork actually done to warrant the idea that Galway beating them is a ridiculous notion? Aside from getting relegated, and being the worst team in six years to contest an all ireland final?(?

)

Hotale.com · 23-05-2014 06:56PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Yeah but it's hardly the most outlandish prediction ever, warranting no fewer than five question marks in your flabbergasted response.

I mean, what have Cork actually done to warrant the idea that Galway beating them is a ridiculous notion? Aside from getting relegated, and being the worst team in six years to contest an all ireland final?(? )

Five question marks?

It's not a ridiculous notion, it's simply an opinion I don't agree with. Galway's over-reliance on Canning could easily be their downfall.

I don't rate Galway as a unit, I rate Canning as the greatest player who's still playing. If he doesn't play well Galway won't play well, and I'd never back a team that puts so much faith in one, albeit brilliant, player.

The fact Cork got relegated in the league is irrelevant when it is blatantly obvious that they don't take the league seriously, and it becomes even more irrelevant when you consider the fact that they reached the AI Final that year, beating opposition such as Kilkenny, Clare and Dublin on their way.

And regarding your final point I believe Galway were worse in the 2012 replay than Cork were in the first match last year.

Realt Dearg Sec · 23-05-2014 07:12PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Five question marks?

It's not a ridiculous notion, it's simply an opinion I don't agree with. Galway's over-reliance on Canning could easily be their downfall.

I don't rate Galway as a unit, I rate Canning as the greatest player who's still playing. If he doesn't play well Galway won't play well, and I'd never back a team that puts so much faith in one, albeit brilliant, player.

The fact Cork got relegated in the league is irrelevant when it is blatantly obvious that they don't take the league seriously, and it becomes even more irrelevant when you consider the fact that they reached the AI Final that year, beating opposition such as Kilkenny, Clare and Dublin on their way.

And regarding your final point I believe Galway were worse in the 2012 replay than Cork were in the first match last year.

Yeah but while you can argue they don't take the league seriously (which is usually only true after a team has been knocked out of it) they were very poor all lat year, except when they beat Kilkenny, who were due a fall (but still a great cork performance), and this year come in after playing in the lower division. Galway, though inconsistent, I find tend to have good and bad years as well as days. Their league form wasn't great this year, but if they get in any kind of momentum early on they'll be hard to stop, and with corks problems at the back they could win in a loose, high scoring game.

Cork have this first round to deal with but if they can't beat a very green looking Waterford I'd be shocked. But after that game, there's nobody I'd fancy them to beat to the point of visiting a bookie. Never write off cork, as they say, but there's too many landmines facing them this year, especially being in a Munster preliminary game.

citykat · 23-05-2014 07:22PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Munster

QF
Waterford vs Cork- Cork

SF
Tipp vs Limerick- Tipp
Clare vs Cork- Clare

F
Tipp vs Clare- Tipp

Leinster

QF
Galway vs Antrim- Galway
Wexford vs Laois- Wexford
Kilkenny vs Offaly- Kilkenny

SF
Dublin vs Wexford- Dublin
Kilkenny vs Galway- Kilkenny

F
Dublin vs Kilkenny- Kilkenny

All Ireland

1st Round (I made the draw up myself)
Antrim vs Limerick- Limerick
Galway vs Waterford- Galway
Wexford vs Cork- Cork
Offaly vs Laois- Laois

2nd Round
Limerick vs Laois- Limerck
Galway vs Cork- Galway

QF
Limerick vs Dublin- Dublin
Galway vs Clare- Clare

SF
Clare vs Kilkenny- Kilkenny
Dublin vs Tipp- Tipp

F
Kilkenny vs Tipp- Kilkenny

Good summation there!

Hotale.com · 23-05-2014 07:25PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Yeah but while you can argue they don't take the league seriously (which is usually only true after a team has been knocked out of it) they were very poor all lat year, except when they beat Kilkenny, who were due a fall (but still a great cork performance), and this year come in after playing in the lower division. Galway, though inconsistent, I find tend to have good and bad years as well as days. Their league form wasn't great this year, but if they get in any kind of momentum early on they'll be hard to stop, and with corks problems at the back they could win in a loose, high scoring game..

Cork don't take the league seriously, never really have. In the last 32 years they've won the league twice, and have won 6 All-Irelands.

Wouldn't agree that they were poor all last year. They played fantastically well against Clare in the Munster SF which no one really gave them a chance in, but they weren't great at all against Limerick, although Horgan's sending off really gave Limerick a boost and demoralised Cork.

In the All-Ireland they had a great day out against Kilkenny, and played well again against Dublin albeit they got a slice of luck with the sending off (although the ref should have sent another Dublin player off later, instead just booking him). In the first final they should have got slaughtered, they were very, very poor but nearly won the thing somehow, and in the replay I think they made a good account of themselves, that game was arguably 50-50.

Overall I thought they played well, with some shockers thrown in.

glued · 23-05-2014 07:28PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

well again against Dublin albeit they got a slice of luck with the sending off (although the ref should have sent another Dublin player off later, instead just booking him).

Cork were very poor in that game up to the sending off.

Hotale.com · 23-05-2014 07:30PM

glued wrote: »

Cork were very poor in that game up to the sending off.

I remember both teams playing very well throughout, I thought it was a brilliant game of hurling.

citykat · 23-05-2014 07:33PM

glued wrote: »

I also think people are underrating Waterford. Yes the league was poor for them but I wouldn't be surprised to see them in a close game with Cork on Sunday.

I think you're seriously overrating Waterford. I saw them in the flesh in Nowlan Park this year and they were awful particularly in the second half. They got their arses handed to them by Clare particularly in the first half. If Clare hadn't pulled in the horns it would probably have gone down as their heaviest league defeat ever. These matches were played with (AFAIK) near full squads. Given their injuries and that the missing individuals are key I would be very surprised if Cork don't win handily. Waterford should pack the defence and hope to keep the score down in a damage limitation exercise. If they don't, I think their fans will be watching the game through their hands.

Hotale.com · 23-05-2014 07:37PM

citykat wrote: »

Waterford should pack the defence and hope to keep the score down in a damage limitation exercise. If they don't, I think their fans will be watching the game through their hands.

Would you really think Waterford would do that? Against Cork of all teams? If there's one team that Waterford could get motivated enough to beat it's Cork. Definitely won't be easy on Sunday.

Roquentin · 23-05-2014 07:42PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Five question marks?

It's not a ridiculous notion, it's simply an opinion I don't agree with. Galway's over-reliance on Canning could easily be their downfall.

I don't rate Galway as a unit, I rate Canning as the greatest player who's still playing. If he doesn't play well Galway won't play well, and I'd never back a team that puts so much faith in one, albeit brilliant, player.

The fact Cork got relegated in the league is irrelevant when it is blatantly obvious that they don't take the league seriously, and it becomes even more irrelevant when you consider the fact that they reached the AI Final that year, beating opposition such as Kilkenny, Clare and Dublin on their way.

And regarding your final point I believe Galway were worse in the 2012 replay than Cork were in the first match last year.

Thats galways problem. They rely too much on joe.

premierstone · 23-05-2014 07:49PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

I don't rate Galway as a unit, I rate Canning as the greatest player who's still playing. If he doesn't play well Galway won't play well, and I'd never back a team that puts so much faith in one, albeit brilliant, player.

I'm sorry but this hyperbole about Joe is getting completely out of hand and is doing neither himself or Galway any favours, not within a mile of the best hurler playing at the minute.

Hotale.com · 23-05-2014 07:51PM

premierstone wrote: »

I'm sorry but this hyperbole about Joe is getting completely out of hand and is doing neither himself or Galway any favours, not within a mile of the best hurler playing at the minute.

Who do you think is over "a mile" better?

Roquentin · 23-05-2014 07:58PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Who do you think is over "a mile" better?

I agree. I am struggling to think who is better at the moment. Shefflin is past his best now. Was the greatest.

Tommy walsh maybe. Riche Power is class. Limerick have a few young forwards who are class.

premierstone · 23-05-2014 08:02PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Who do you think is over "a mile" better?

Patrick Horgan, Tony Kelly, Paul Murphy, JJ Delaney, Henry Shefflin, Brendan Maher all have contributed far more than Joe has at the top level - and there are plenty more as well, look beyond the hype and his Senior inter county career isn't actually all that impressive. In fact he's not even the best hurler to come out of his family!

Hotale.com · 23-05-2014 08:04PM

Roquentin wrote: »

I agree. I am struggling to think who is better at the moment. Shefflin is past his best now. Was the greatest.

Tommy walsh maybe. Riche Power is class. Limerick have a few young forwards who are class.

I honestly can't think of one.

Canning's brilliance is only further underlined when you consider that his teammates (no disrespect) aren't as good as the likes Richie Hogan and Tommy Walsh would be playing with.

citykat · 23-05-2014 08:05PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Who do you think is over "a mile" better?

I would select all of the following before Canning in a one on one: TJ Reid, Richie Hogan, Michael Fennelly, Colin Fennelly, Tony Kelly, Conor McGrath, Seamus Harnedy, Pat Horgan. For me Canning is very skilful, good at frees, sidelines and has an eye for goal or point. However, when he goes out of games you'd hardly know he was even there. If it were me, I'd leave Cooney on the frees. I think Canning has hidden behind his Points from frees tally too much in the past.

Hotale.com · 23-05-2014 08:12PM

premierstone wrote: »

Patrick Horgan, Tony Kelly, Paul Murphy, JJ Delaney, Henry Shefflin, Brendan Maher all have contributed far more than Joe has at the top level - and there are plenty more as well, look beyond the hype and his Senior inter county career isn't actually all that impressive. In fact he's not even the best hurler to come out of his family!

Wouldn't think any of them are currently better than Joe, definitely not "a mile" better. Do I detect a hint of hyperbolism?

Shefflin definitely was better but he's well past his best at this stage. I wouldn't even have Horgan down as the best player for Cork after Harnedy's displays last year.

Senior Hurling Championship 2014

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