Should There Be Trigger Warnings on College Literature Books?

RedPandaDan · 21-05-2014 10:50AM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Maybe there should be warnings on streets. For example, a pub might be a trigger for an alcoholic. Signs at the ends of the street should warn people that there might be a pub on that street, so that they can avoid it, just in case the sight of the pub triggers the desire for a drink.

Yes. Excellent idea.

But it isn't just the sight of things that trigger, reading about things can trigger too.

Just to be on the safe side, we should have another sign that advises everyone that the first sign will trigger them.

Muise... · 21-05-2014 10:55AM

Philosophy books should have a trigger warning too.

GalwayGuy2 · 21-05-2014 11:01AM

Philosophy books should have a trigger warning too.

Yup, it triggers someone to turn into a pretentious twat.

Wibbs · 21-05-2014 11:09AM

Queen-Mise wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Nice. Of course maybe I'm being churlish by pointing out you were hardly clear in your first post on the matter.

You could see it in the people doing the essay on concentration camps this year - you knew exactly who they were when walking into the library. They all had haunted faces. Thanks but no thanks, I like being able to sleep, minus nightmares.

So people aren't capable of objective distancing from a historical subject. Jesus. Fat lot of good they'll be as historians. Frankly it sounds like over emotive nonsense. Yes one should have an emotional reaction to such things, however that should be allied with an ability to apply intellectual rigour to a subject.

Permabear wrote: »

You're studying history ... and skipping the parts of history that might upset you?

For the record, how did you get on with the Crusades, Genghis Khan, the Black Death, the Spanish Inquisition, the slave trade, the Reign of Terror, Stalin, Mao, and the Khmer Rouge?

Surely you knew before you started that history is the sordid narrative of all the conquests, wars, torture, enslavement, executions, famines, and other atrocities that people have inflicted on each other throughout the ages?

+1000

Ah yes PB, but depending on fashion and exposure and cultural background some history seems to "upset" more than others. EG the Rape of Nanking would have more resonance for someone from a Chinese background. The Holocaust would be a western sacred cow on that score. Rightfully so, but objectively again it was one horror among many others, including in that time period. Even with the Holocaust the average bod, even the apparently interested only knows the "highlights". For me that's a real insult to the memory of the murdered. We owe it to them and to the future to learn a little more and learn how and why it happened and how scarily easily it happened. Avoiding it entirely because it might give you nightmares? Jesus H Christ.

21-05-2014 11:11AM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Maybe there should be warnings on streets. For example, a pub might be a trigger for an alcoholic. Signs at the ends of the street should warn people that there might be a pub on that street, so that they can avoid it, just in case the sight of the pub triggers the desire for a drink.

Yes. Excellent idea.

It should be a big neon arrow and all pubs must have them. They must also mention any cheap deals they have so the alcoholic knows that that would be a particularly dangerous place to go.

21-05-2014 11:12AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah yes PB, but depending on fashion and exposure and cultural background some history seems to "upset" more than others. EG the Rape of Nanking would have more resonance for someone from a Chinese background. The Holocaust would be a western sacred cow on that score. Rightfully so, but objectively again it was one horror among many others, including in that time period. Even with the Holocaust the average bod, even the apparently interested only knows the "highlights". For me that's a real insult to the memory of the murdered. We owe it to them and to the future to learn a little more and learn how and why it happened and how scarily easily it happened. Avoiding it entirely because it might give you nightmares? Jesus H Christ.

Nah sure it'd never happen again in Europe sure everything's grand, we're better than that.

Wibbs · 21-05-2014 11:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nah sure it'd never happen again in Europe sure everything's grand, we're better than that.

The joke is that if this was 1900 and you were taking bets on which European nation was the most likely to kick off a murderous campaign against Jewish people, Germany would have been a fair bit down the list.

21-05-2014 11:29AM

Wibbs wrote: »

The joke is that if this was 1900 and you were taking bets on which European nation was the most likely to kick off a murderous campaign against Jewish people, Germany would have been a fair bit down the list.

I was being sarcastic. :pac: I know people like thinking of genocide as something black or brown people do, how quickly they forget.

The reasons for the Germans being the ones to do it are kinda hard to discuss or whatever without stepping on toes and making generalisations unfortunately but I do find it fascinating.

Mike747 · 21-05-2014 11:59AM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

My pet peeve is the term 'People of Colour'. Not because of the term itself, but I have yet to see someone use it who isn't a douchebag.

I've seen 'feminists of colour' telling regular feminists to shut up as they were less oppressed, or more privileged, or some bull****. It was pretty funny.

o1s1n · 21-05-2014 12:10PM

Queen-Mise wrote: »

You could see it in the people doing the essay on concentration camps this year - you knew exactly who they were when walking into the library. They all had haunted faces. Thanks but no thanks, I like being able to sleep, minus nightmares.

Pity for them!

I think we need to go the other way as a society and teach this kind of stuff to everyone in school.

Best way to avoid humanities past mistakes is to always keep them in our memory. If anything, show the younger generations the true horror of war and that they need to avoid it at all costs.

Something like the docu-drama 'Threads' should also be shown as to the potentials of future nuclear wars. For many people (especially the last few generations), although sounding awful, are still really bizarre, far removed concepts from the norm of day to day life. I'd hate to see them grow up without any real understanding of war really is and then the same stupid mistakes are made all over again.

conorhal · 21-05-2014 12:29PM

languagenerd wrote: »

Literally anything could be a "trigger", though. PTSD and other such issues are particular to person experiencing them, so something that's completely mundane to one person could induce full on panic-attacks in others. We can't wrap the entire world in cotton wool in case it hurts/offends/causes pain to someone.

If someone genuinely does suffer from flashbacks or panic attacks triggered by certain topics, it takes five seconds to google the title of a novel on their reading list and find out the main themes in advance. It shouldn't be a case that you're sitting in class and suddenly realise it's about war, or sexual abuse, or racism, etc. If something affects you that badly, you will find out in advance if it's going to be a major part of a class; you don't need someone to do that for you, because you'll already have checked it out for yourself.

Labelling things as "triggers" just makes them worse in the long run anyway. It makes them a taboo topic, rather than normalising them as something that can be discussed and understood (not that things like violence or sexual abuse should be normalised, but they shouldn't be set apart as something secret or shameful). Literature reflects life and it shouldn't be sugar-coated, because life is not sugar-coated. I can see a lot of students using this as an excuse to get out of class...

This isn't coming from tumblr though, it's coming from the pearl clutching ultra liberals entrenched in the university system in the States (the Berkley 'Liberal' set) who are less interested in education then they are indoctrination. Which is why 'critical thinking' in educational establishments has been jettisoned in favor of 'correct thinking.'

I always get nervous when the liberal bleeding hearts meet conservative, religious book banners from the other end of the spectrum with the same objective.
Clearly the real problem here is books, we should ban them immediately!
Once all of them are burned, then people from all parts of the political spectrum can walk forward, hand-in-hand, unencumbered by any of mankind's accrued wisdom.

Now that I think of it, would there even be space on the cover of a copy of 'Game of Thrones' for the title what with all the 'trigger warnings' the contents would entail?

GalwayGuy2 · 21-05-2014 12:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I was being sarcastic. :pac: I know people like thinking of genocide as something black or brown people do, how quickly they forget.

The reasons for the Germans being the ones to do it are kinda hard to discuss or whatever without stepping on toes and making generalisations unfortunately but I do find it fascinating.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure they do. Colonialism, the treatment of Native-Americans, the slave trade, etc is heard quite often.

This isn't coming from tumblr though, it's coming from the pearl clutching ultra liberals entrenched in the university system in the States (the Berkley 'Liberal' set) who are less interested in education then they are indoctrination. Which is why 'critical thinking' in educational establishments has been jettisoned in favor of 'correct thinking.'

IMO, Critical Thinking has always been trying to teach people 'correct thinking'. There is a certain arrogance in people saying they learn how to think critically. It's honestly saying, 'My thoughts are correct, your thoughts are not.'

College is funny :P

Although, should there be trigger warnings on commercial books? Eg: Game of Thrones?

Grayson · 21-05-2014 01:26PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Yup, it triggers someone to turn into a pretentious twat.

I'll have you know I was a pretentious twat long before I started studying philosophy.

Da Shins Kelly · 21-05-2014 02:18PM

Mike747 wrote: »

I've seen 'feminists of colour' telling regular feminists to shut up as they were less oppressed, or more privileged, or some bull****. It was pretty funny.

In fairness, non-white feminists were pretty much excluded from the feminist conversation for years, right up until the 80s really. bell hooks' Ain't I A Woman book raises a lot of very good points about how the black female experience was very much devalued in society in general, but also within the feminist movement itself, which was very preoccupied with issues pertaining to the white middle-class. It was non-white women who were being told to "shut up", although not quite that explicitly. Feminism was a very 'white' and a very middle-class movement for a very long time. This meant that poor Black/Asian/Hispanic women were almost never included in the discussion despite the fact they were often the dual embodiment of racial and gender injustice. It is only since the Third Wave that women of other races have really been brought into the fold.

Historically feminism caters to white, middle-class women, so it's hardly surprising that women of other races feel as though "regular" feminism doesn't really understand or value their experiences. That's why there is a whole branch of the feminist movement dedicated to black feminist theory - it is supposed to give voice to a whole section of society that has been marginalized for years.

Muise... · 21-05-2014 02:23PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure they do. Colonialism, the treatment of Native-Americans, the slave trade, etc is heard quite often.

IMO, Critical Thinking has always been trying to teach people 'correct thinking'. There is a certain arrogance in people saying they learn how to think critically. It's honestly saying, 'My thoughts are correct, your thoughts are not.'

College is funny :P

Although, should there be trigger warnings on commercial books? Eg: Game of Thrones?

No, it really isn't: critical thinking is putting your opinion and received wisdom to one side and looking directly at the matter in as open and objective a manner as possible, and then demonstrating that your own thoughts are as correct as can be.

Maybe you're confusing it with a (Marxist, feminist etc) critique? I get your frustration over trends in discourse being entertained at third level, but don't go burning down the university over it - you're starting to sound like you failed 1st year Arts. Which, to be fair, would embitter anyone.

smoking_kills · 21-05-2014 02:41PM

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116842/trigger-warnings-have-spread-blogs-college-classes-thats-bad

The "trigger warning" has spread from blogs to college classes. Can it be stopped?

GalwayGuy2 · 21-05-2014 02:49PM

Muise... wrote: »

No, it really isn't: critical thinking is putting your opinion and received wisdom to one side and looking directly at the matter in as open and objective a manner as possible, and then demonstrating that your own thoughts are as correct as can be.

Maybe you're confusing it with a (Marxist, feminist etc) critique? I get your frustration over trends in discourse being entertained at third level, but don't go burning down the university over it - you're starting to sound like you failed 1st year Arts. Which, to be fair, would embitter anyone.

Excuse me, I couldn't hear you over the sound of my grinding axe :P

My problem with the way critical thinking is thought is there is actually very little objectivity and a large dose of elitism. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of uni :P

Also, I can't really say too much because of anonymity, but I far from failed arts. One of the reasons why I disagree with the way it is thought is that, once you understand how to write an essay and what the lecturers want to hear, you will get great grades with little amount of effort.

Muise... · 21-05-2014 02:54PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Excuse me, I couldn't hear you over the sound of my grinding axe :P

My problem with the way critical thinking is thought is there is actually very little objectivity and a large dose of elitism. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of uni :P

Also, I can't really say too much because of anonymity, but I far from failed arts. One of the reasons why I disagree with the way it is thought is that, once you understand how to write an essay and what the lecturers want to hear, you will get great grades with little amount of effort.

Well, yeah, worked for me - I have an M.A. in contemptuously manipulative theses. The lecturers are far too busy moaning on social media about all the papers they have to mark (oh poor professor, are your diamond shoes hurting?) to read anything out of the ordinary... :pac:

Da Shins Kelly · 21-05-2014 03:08PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Also, I can't really say too much because of anonymity, but I far from failed arts. One of the reasons why I disagree with the way it is thought is that, once you understand how to write an essay and what the lecturers want to hear, you will get great grades with little amount of effort.

I don't think that's entirely true. Plenty of people will do well enough by simply rehashing whatever the lecturer tells them, but the people who get the best grades, the kind of people who may be suitable for postgraduate study are the people who do think for themselves and come up with new and interesting ways of reading literature, and know how to express those ideas well.

I totally agree though that there is too much regurgitation of information at college level. Not as much as in secondary school, but still a lot. The format of an exam is not compatible with studying subjects like English, I don't think. I did exams in final year, and they just encourage people to learn things off rote and just regurgitate it in the exam. Essays are much better way of assessing someone's writing skills and their ability to analyse literature. You have time to think about your opinions and write them up to the best of your ability. All you get in an exam is a rushed, badly written, badly structured essay of half-baked ideas.

jimgoose · 21-05-2014 03:16PM

Muise... wrote: »

...I have an M.A. in contemptuously manipulative theses...

Mmm. Most impressive, young Skywalker. Probably not as good as my Ph.D in Hyperbolic Toplogy Nnng-BWEEEY though.

21-05-2014 03:26PM

I'm curious as to what exactly the warnings will entail. Is it simply a sticker that has a Little bit of info like you would find on the BBFC film ratings or is it more indepth and detailed. If it's the latter there is the real chance that it could contain serious spoilers and ruin many of the book surprises.

Da Shins Kelly · 21-05-2014 03:49PM

I know in the US Huckleberry Finn has been frequently challenged and there have been many discussions about removing it from the school curriculum because of the racist language in it. There was even a 'sanitized' version of it published with the "n-word" removed and replaced with "slave" (even though Jim is a free man), and the word "injun" is taken out too. It's fcuking sacrilege, as far as I'm concerned. Huckleberry Finn is a classic piece of literature and one of the great American works of art that is a relic of a certain time and place. It was written by someone who was a product of the 19th century ffs. It's a complete distortion of the facts of history to pretend that there wasn't a time when people did casually use that language. So misguided.

I'm assuming this move to add trigger warnings to certain books is coming from the same line of thinking that has spawned the never-ending debate about Huckleberry Finn.

bodice ripper · 21-05-2014 04:07PM

I bet the same people who are pushing for Trigger Warnings now were the same people who would have railed against Parental Advisory Explicit Lyrics stickers on albums a few years ago. People got old.

conorhal · 21-05-2014 04:10PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I know in the US Huckleberry Finn has been frequently challenged and there have been many discussions about removing it from the school curriculum because of the racist language in it. There was even a 'sanitized' version of it published with the "n-word" removed and replaced with "slave" (even though Jim is a free man), and the word "injun" is taken out too. It's fcuking sacrilege, as far as I'm concerned. Huckleberry Finn is a classic piece of literature and one of the great American works of art that is a relic of a certain time and place. It was written by someone who was a product of the 19th century ffs. It's a complete distortion of the facts of history to pretend that there wasn't a time when people did casually use that language. So misguided.

I'm assuming this move to add trigger warnings to certain books is coming from the same line of thinking that has spawned the never-ending debate about Huckleberry Finn.

It reminds me of the moral prurience of the Popes that insisted on all the greek and roman statues sporting a 'fig leaf' for modesty's sake, so they had folks going around hacking off willies with a chisel and sticking on leaves.
You can just imagine these 'trigger happy' eejits sitting in libraries doing much the same thing with black markers as they cross out 'inapropriate words'.

RDM_83 again · 21-05-2014 05:15PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

I bet the same people who are pushing for Trigger Warnings now were the same people who would have railed against Parental Advisory Explicit Lyrics stickers on albums a few years ago. People got old.

But thats Parent-normative and excludes the diversity of modern family arrangements of course they would have opposed it, also we know that children are the same as adults and completely sure of their identity so a little bit of Rage Against The Machine will just help them express themselves (no nasty homophobic and sexist Gangsta Rap though that should be completely banned).

Greenmachine · 21-05-2014 05:23PM

How does one determine when a material may have potential to trigger. There are some bizarre triggers out there like a fear of "left turns". Not sure how far such a phobia could possibly extent. If you take something like this far enough. You could end up with a list of triggers longer than the article. I think they are a good idea for visual media, but less so for written media.

Queen-Mise · 21-05-2014 08:50PM

Queen-Mise wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

My post was clear enough. I said I was avoiding a History MODULE. At no point did I mention I was studying a History degree. All of you assumed I was studying a History degree. And you know what they say about assumptions.

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

See Above.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why not say that the first time. Huge difference between ill be avoiding one of my modules and I'm selecting a different module to study. Why would you pursue a degree in which you have to avoid entire modules and a full year of the course? It just seems ridiculous that you'd select something that you can't handle.

Again I mentioned one module. You assumed I was avoiding a year of my course.
On a side note: how would that work, if I went to my institution and told them I wanted to skip 2nd or 3rd year as I found one module upsetting !!

Laura_lolly87 wrote: »

I found some poems in songs of experience sad. Not really upsetting, just sad.

I found them really sad. Especially the ones in Songs of Experience. The Nurses Song, and especially the one about Holy Thursday (I think, the one about Easter). Blake nailed them perfectly.

Wibbs wrote: »

Nice. Of course maybe I'm being churlish by pointing out you were hardly clear in your first post on the matter.

So people aren't capable of objective distancing from a historical subject. Jesus. Fat lot of good they'll be as historians. Frankly it sounds like over emotive nonsense. Yes one should have an emotional reaction to such things, however that should be allied with an ability to apply intellectual rigour to a subject.

+1000

Avoiding it entirely because it might give you nightmares? Jesus H Christ.

I mentioned a module I was avoiding. Everything else is things all of you inferred and assumed.

Not sure how many of them are planning to be historians, most of them are probably planning for primary and secondary teaching. Very few really are probably planning continuing on to be historians. And even historians would find studying and reading about concentration camps upsetting. I am not sure you could be human and not have it affect you (as long as you are not psychopathic/sociopathic etc.)
The essay was on the lines of reading three first hand accounts of concentration camps, rather than a colder approach using history texts. First hand accounts are a lot harder and tougher to read emotionally.

And giving me nightmares. Exactly so. I am not justifying or explaining this. You have absolutely no idea of the sh*te I have been through and what can trigger stuff for me.

21-05-2014 11:06PM

You could have been a lot clearer in your initial post. Saying, I'm avoiding one of my modules next year is a little different to saying I have a choice of a number to pick from. From your wording, myself and others read it as you saying that there was a part of your course that you had chosen to skip.

And the question remains, why study something if there are a number of modules that you are unable or unwilling to study. I know a number of people who studied the holocaust in college and none of them were affected it in the manner you describe your peers being.

If someone is unable to study history or any module because emotionally they are unable to, then what are they going to do when faced with unpleasant things in the real world? Bury their faces in the sand and ignore it hoping it'll go away?

22-05-2014 01:40AM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure they do. Colonialism, the treatment of Native-Americans, the slave trade, etc is heard quite often.

What happened to Native Americans, North and South, as well as Australasian Natives certainly isn't given the position it should be.
My point though was in current terms. The "West" are the good guys now in all things race.

osarusan · 22-05-2014 03:49AM

Deleted User wrote: »

You could have been a lot clearer in your initial post. Saying, I'm avoiding one of my modules next year is a little different to saying I have a choice of a number to pick from. From your wording, myself and others read it as you saying that there was a part of your course that you had chosen to skip.

And the question remains, why study something if there are a number of modules that you are unable or unwilling to study. I know a number of people who studied the holocaust in college and none of them were affected it in the manner you describe your peers being.

If someone is unable to study history or any module because emotionally they are unable to, then what are they going to do when faced with unpleasant things in the real world? Bury their faces in the sand and ignore it hoping it'll go away?

I would guess that they are just electives, and the poster will simply elect to take a different module. That's how I first read it.

Should There Be Trigger Warnings on College Literature Books?

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