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Should There Be Trigger Warnings on College Literature Books?

2

Comments

  • #32
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Very Upworthy too.

    Some day Upworthy is going to trigger me into turning total fascist out of spite. :mad:

    oh, and privilege-checking? FLAMES!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Raf5JdFecPQ


  • #33
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Actually, now that I think about it, it's definitely an insidious plot by secularist capitalists to expand their programme of self-imposed censorship on the masses.


  • #34
    languagenerd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,201 ✭✭✭languagenerd


    Literally anything could be a "trigger", though. PTSD and other such issues are particular to person experiencing them, so something that's completely mundane to one person could induce full on panic-attacks in others. We can't wrap the entire world in cotton wool in case it hurts/offends/causes pain to someone.

    If someone genuinely does suffer from flashbacks or panic attacks triggered by certain topics, it takes five seconds to google the title of a novel on their reading list and find out the main themes in advance. It shouldn't be a case that you're sitting in class and suddenly realise it's about war, or sexual abuse, or racism, etc. If something affects you that badly, you will find out in advance if it's going to be a major part of a class; you don't need someone to do that for you, because you'll already have checked it out for yourself.

    Labelling things as "triggers" just makes them worse in the long run anyway. It makes them a taboo topic, rather than normalising them as something that can be discussed and understood (not that things like violence or sexual abuse should be normalised, but they shouldn't be set apart as something secret or shameful). Literature reflects life and it shouldn't be sugar-coated, because life is not sugar-coated. I can see a lot of students using this as an excuse to get out of class...


  • #35
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    languagenerd wrote: »
    Literally anything could be a "trigger", though. PTSD and other such issues are particular to person experiencing them, so something that's completely mundane to one person could induce full on panic-attacks in others. We can't wrap the entire world in cotton wool in case it hurts/offends/causes pain to someone.

    If someone genuinely does suffer from flashbacks or panic attacks triggered by certain topics, it takes five seconds to google the title of a novel on their reading list and find out the main themes in advance. It shouldn't be a case that you're sitting in class and suddenly realise it's about war, or sexual abuse, or racism, etc. If something affects you that badly, you will find out in advance if it's going to be a major part of a class; you don't need someone to do that for you, because you'll already have checked it out for yourself.

    Labelling things as "triggers" just makes them worse in the long run anyway. It makes them a taboo topic, rather than normalising them as something that can be discussed and understood (not that things like violence or sexual abuse should be normalised, but they shouldn't be set apart as something secret or shameful). Literature reflects life and it shouldn't be sugar-coated, because life is not sugar-coated. I can see a lot of students using this as an excuse to get out of class...

    Yup, and a university course in literature should be analytical and objective; it's not a lachrymose book club for "victims".


  • #36
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    I can see the relevance if they have to studies of something like American Psyco, for me the book triggered a deep dislike for mens fashion :o seriously though I could see how something like that might effect certain people.


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  • #37
    Mike747
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 383 ✭✭Mike747


    Queen-Mise wrote: »
    I think they kinda have a point - albeit not about the texts they have quoted above, they are not the worst of the stuff on courses.

    I am avoiding doing an entire History module next year because they are covering Nazism and concentration camps. I know enough, I have been to a concentration camp, it is will just be too upsetting for me. So will do anything else bar do that history module.

    I found some of the poems of William Blake upsetting. No one else did - but they must have tapped into something with me.

    Wtf?


  • #38
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Just to sum up the above, it is not just a trigger warning about violence, but also about racism, homophobia, sexism, misogyny, so on so forth.

    *sigh*

    Since when does being offended by something count as "traumatic"?
    God almighty.


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Queen-Mise wrote: »
    I think they kinda have a point - albeit not about the texts they have quoted above, they are not the worst of the stuff on courses.

    I am avoiding doing an entire History module next year because they are covering Nazism and concentration camps. I know enough, I have been to a concentration camp, it is will just be too upsetting for me. So will do anything else bar do that history module.

    I found some of the poems of William Blake upsetting. No one else did - but they must have tapped into something with me.

    I'm baffled as to why you would doing a degree and then choose to skip an entire module. It makes absolutely nosemse and I'm wondering how you will make use of your degree if you are missing out on a chunk of it. It's somewhat sad that people think it acceptable to not bother with part of their degree because it may upset them. Maybe I should have not bothered with the German language aspect of my degree because I found having to learn it upsetting.


  • #40
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    *sigh*

    Since when does being offended by something count as "traumatic"?
    God almighty.
    There lies my real beef with the term 'trigger warning'. A genuine trigger is a lot, lot worse than feeling uncomfortable or a little upset about something. It's a complete misappropriation of the word.


  • #41
    Olive8585
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭Olive8585


    My name is URL wrote: »
    People have gone mad altogether. If folk are that sensitive and traumatised by what happens around them they'd be better off locked up in their rooms rather than making the world a more difficult place to live in for everyone else. Idiots is the only word for them.

    You can't see how someone who was sexually abused by a family member for years might prefer to avoid reading a book about that subject? You'd call them an idiot for preferring to know in advance exactly what's in the modules they choose?

    Nice.


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  • #42
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    You can't see how someone who was sexually abused by a family member for years might prefer to avoid reading a book about that subject? You'd call them an idiot for preferring to know in advance exactly what's in the modules they choose?

    Nice.
    All of us in life have come across material that has personally affected us and sometimes upsetting, it doesn't give way to a demand that every detail in any story is explicitly given, because the context of such issues can be entirely different from one another. It is far more realistic and healthier to learn how to cope with something and be able to talk about it, than wrap every controversial issue in cotton wool and actually make it more taboo and negative. Most people look up the plot/review of a book before they read, anyway. Usually if something is quite extreme it is often known about before reading.


  • #43
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    You can't see how someone who was sexually abused by a family member for years might prefer to avoid reading a book about that subject? You'd call them an idiot for preferring to know in advance exactly what's in the modules they choose?

    Nice.

    I'm pretty sure that's not what she meant. The idea that an abused person should avoid a book about abuse is bad. Context is key here; it is about the misappropriation of the term "trigger", it being applied to classical novels, works of art that have been accepted into our common culture, for good or ill.

    I can see some people's point of view, that this is just an avenue for privilege-chasing by emotional cripples; but the reality is is that this is just another example of serious journalism being undermined by the meme-culture run riot; the Guardian is just one of the more egregious examples of this.

    The real wrong here is the valid concept of "trigger-warning" of the information highway being undermined by the slave-media of the elite.


  • #44
    Standman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    "Trigger warning" has to be one of the most irritating buzzphrases to become popular in recent times - it's up there with "PC brigade", ironically.

    When I think about why people feel the need for "trigger warnings", I just imagine someone reading something about their "sensitive issue", and then beginning to uncontrollably thrash around on the ground beside their computer because they have been "triggered", without warning no less :eek: .

    Grow up.


  • #45
    Mike747
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 383 ✭✭Mike747


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    You can't see how someone who was sexually abused by a family member for years might prefer to avoid reading a book about that subject? You'd call them an idiot for preferring to know in advance exactly what's in the modules they choose?

    Nice.

    It's just a book. Can't be that bad.


  • #46
    Foxhound38
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,547 ✭✭✭Foxhound38


    I've started noticing this nonsense online of late - it would be nice if it didn't spread into our schools. Most of the time it's SJW crapology of the highest order. Unless it's a VERY graphic portrayal of something like rape, there is simply no need for it.

    On the other hand, there is an argument that you can't wrap the world and reality in bubble-wrap in an effort to ensure you never, ever get offended or see/read/think something you dislike or that makes you feel in any way uncomfortable - which is what many SJW's seem to want. Life doesn't work that way.

    Here is a case in point of how bloody ridiculous it can get...

    Discussions of consentual sex trigger warnings? Slimy things trigger warnings? FFS :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


  • #47
    blatantrereg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭blatantrereg


    Catharsis is a primary purpose of literature. Triggering changes in emotions is the point.

    Just BS excuses by the students imo.


  • #48
    Queen-Mise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,461 ✭✭✭Queen-Mise


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm baffled as to why you would doing a degree and then choose to skip an entire module. It makes absolutely nosemse and I'm wondering how you will make use of your degree if you are missing out on a chunk of it. It's somewhat sad that people think it acceptable to not bother with part of their degree because it may upset them. Maybe I should have not bothered with the German language aspect of my degree because I found having to learn it upsetting.

    It's a wonder you got your degree if that is your level of understanding and comprehension.

    I have no interest or intention in following up on History after my degree. I have to pick 'x' amount of electives, one of them happens to be a Module on Nazism and Concentration camps. So shall pick something else [On a side note: I will have to avoid all history next year, the other option is even worse].

    You could see it in the people doing the essay on concentration camps this year - you knew exactly who they were when walking into the library. They all had haunted faces. Thanks but no thanks, I like being able to sleep, minus nightmares.


  • #49
    Queen-Mise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,461 ✭✭✭Queen-Mise


    My name is URL wrote: »
    No offence, but that is bizarre. Why are you studying history at all if you can just pick and choose which parts you want to learn about? I mean trigonometry freaks people out but they wouldn't graduate with a math degree if you chose not to learn about it.

    Probably because I am not doing a History degree. It is one of the Elective options in the final year of my degree.


  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,824 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Trigger warnings are a good idea in theory but overusing them completely waters down the whole point, plus makes them an object of ridicule. Something that's very graphic (like American Psycho, say) I can understand having warnings.....but is there ever a danger of someone reading it without knowing beforehand what they're getting into? The Great Gatsby is an odd one for them to mention; yes there are unpleasant incidents in it but I can't recall any overly graphic descriptions of violence - anybody who could possibly suffer a PTSD incident from reading The Great Gatsby is someone whose threshold for being triggered (for want of a better phrase) is unhealthily low and needs serious help.

    A reader being traumatised and a reader being upset are two different things; the former is a highly unfortunate situation that trigger warnings could help avoid but the latter is something the reader just needs to learn to deal with.


  • #51
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #52
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #53
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    My name is URL wrote: »
    No offence, but that is bizarre. Why are you studying history at all if you can just pick and choose which parts you want to learn about? I mean trigonometry freaks people out but they wouldn't graduate with a math degree if you chose not to learn about it.

    Not an Apple and Orange case. One chapter/area of history for 5000+ years of recorded history, eh, you can still be a History major.

    Even in established sciences there are electives. You don't have to, for instance, take a separate certification for Finite Element Analysis to be a Mechanical Engineer, but it is a handy technical elective you can opt to take.


  • #54
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    Standman wrote: »
    "Trigger warning" has to be one of the most irritating buzzphrases to become popular in recent times - it's up there with "PC brigade", ironically.

    When I think about why people feel the need for "trigger warnings", I just imagine someone reading something about their "sensitive issue", and then beginning to uncontrollably thrash around on the ground beside their computer because they have been "triggered", without warning no less :eek: .

    Grow up.

    My pet peeve is the term 'People of Colour'. Not because of the term itself, but I have yet to see someone use it who isn't a douchebag.


  • #55
    crybaby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 895 ✭✭✭crybaby


    The whole point of literature is to make people feel something it can be either negative or positive, everyone has had negative experiences in their lives. If reading a book is going to trigger a breakdown for you I suggest people lock themselves in their rooms.


  • #56
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Maybe there should be warnings on streets. For example, a pub might be a trigger for an alcoholic. Signs at the ends of the street should warn people that there might be a pub on that street, so that they can avoid it, just in case the sight of the pub triggers the desire for a drink.

    Yes. Excellent idea.


  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Queen-Mise wrote: »
    It's a wonder you got your degree if that is your level of understanding and comprehension.

    I have no interest or intention in following up on History after my degree. I have to pick 'x' amount of electives, one of them happens to be a Module on Nazism and Concentration camps. So shall pick something else [On a side note: I will have to avoid all history next year, the other option is even worse].

    You could see it in the people doing the essay on concentration camps this year - you knew exactly who they were when walking into the library. They all had haunted faces. Thanks but no thanks, I like being able to sleep, minus nightmares.

    Why not say that the first time. Huge difference between ill be avoiding one of my modules and I'm selecting a different module to study. Why would you pursue a degree in which you have to avoid entire modules and a full year of the course? It just seems ridiculous that you'd select something that you can't handle.


  • #58
    Laura_lolly87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 212 ✭✭Laura_lolly87


    Queen-Mise wrote: »
    I think they kinda have a point - albeit not about the texts they have quoted above, they are not the worst of the stuff on courses.

    I am avoiding doing an entire History module next year because they are covering Nazism and concentration camps. I know enough, I have been to a concentration camp, it is will just be too upsetting for me. So will do anything else bar do that history module.

    I found some of the poems of William Blake upsetting. No one else did - but they must have tapped into something with me.

    I found some poems in songs of experience sad. Not really upsetting, just sad.


  • #59
    languagenerd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,201 ✭✭✭languagenerd


    Olive8585 wrote: »
    You can't see how someone who was sexually abused by a family member for years might prefer to avoid reading a book about that subject? You'd call them an idiot for preferring to know in advance exactly what's in the modules they choose?

    Nice.

    Hang on, I don't think anyone's saying that people can't be traumatised by books. No-one's saying they shouldn't know in advance whats in the modules. I think, however, that someone who is genuinely affected by PTSD or traumatic memories would already be doing quick google searches of every book/film on the course in their own time anyway.

    It's just that sticking "trigger warnings" on everything is a dangerous path to go down. It could even make things like sexual abuse more taboo by making such a big deal about it and setting it apart from other topics; or on the other hand, it could trivialise it, by putting it alongside some of the mad stuff people want to put "trigger warnings" on now.


  • #60
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,067 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Queen-Mise wrote: »
    You could see it in the people doing the essay on concentration camps this year - you knew exactly who they were when walking into the library. They all had haunted faces. Thanks but no thanks, I like being able to sleep, minus nightmares.

    I know that some people frown on the use of this particular emoticon, but :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


    Perhaps this forum might be safer than venturing in to After Hours on any given day of the week?


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  • #61
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,237 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    "They say there is no light without dark..."


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