Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

Delboy5 · 16-05-2014 07:59AM

Andy Mitten, a man generally ITK about alot of things United.....names Mats Hummels also as player LVG wants........

http://www.thenational.ae/sport/manchester-united/future-still-up-in-the-air-for-giggs-and-manchester-united-with-van-gaal-decision-delayed

KH25 · 16-05-2014 08:02AM

So Shaw, Hummels, Vidal, Kroos and Muller are all linked with us......

Im in work so can somebody please post the Randy Marsh ectoplasm pic for me please?!

Lucas Hood · 16-05-2014 08:03AM

I see people linking us to Rakitić , Maybe we could pick him for less than 20m , Sevilla are meant to be broke they sold Negredo for 16m & Navas for 15m last season.

Lord TSC · 16-05-2014 08:23AM

Where are these players going to play in the 433 then though? You'd imagine it would be like....

De Gea
Rafael - Jones - Hummels - Shaw
Felaini
Mata

Kroos
Muller

Robben
Van Persie

...but that's shoving Mata in CM just to keep him playing and dropping Rooney from the first squad altogether (which wouldn't keep him happy). Could switch Mata and Rooney for a more organic midfield, but will the club want to relegate their current record signing to bench player? Should they?

glued · 16-05-2014 08:23AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the concern is that we failed to land all our targets last summer, as champions with CL football and while im sure the same mistakes wont be made again in terms of how we actually went about it, the problem we face this summer is that players may just not want to leave champions league clubs to a club without champions league football.

You have to look at last Summer overall to see what the problem is. I think blaming Woodward for last Summer is way OTT. We went after Fabregas who numerous journalists said we didn't have a chance with as he was only looking for reassurances for first team football. I remember a couple of people wrote at the time that Darren Dein, Fabregas's agent, had no intention of letting Fabregas return to England and it was all pressure on Barcelona. This was also reported by the Catalan media and Fabregas has completely fallen out of favour with a lot of the media and fans in Barcelona over his performances this season after all that rubbish that Barcelona had to put up with over the Summer.

Thiago was a strange one. Bayern Munich seemed to give us a big right hook towards the end of that deal. It appears now as if, like Fabregas, he had no intention of coming here. He has said many times that he was only joining Bayern which would lead you to believe that the agents were talking to see what sort of wages we would offer him.

Ander Herrera was an absolute bizarre transfer. He's not anywhere near United standard yet Moyes decided that we had to go after him. Athletic Bilbao wanted us to pay the full £30 Million up front. He's not worth £10 Million never mind £30 Million. No club in the world can just cut a cheque for £30 Million

Fabio Coentrao was botched due to Moyes. United and Real agreed a fee. Real Madrid rang up Granada and had Siqueira waiting at the Airport to stop a move to Benfica so they could complete the deal if Coentrao joined United. At some point during the day Moyes decided that he only wanted Coentrao on loan and Real Madrid were no longer interested.

None of these are Woodward's fault. Both Alex Ferguson and David Gill were far too conservative in the transfer market. That 'no value in the market' nonsense was as much David Gill's fault as Fergusons'.

Also as much as we we're loathing the idea of our club being run by David Moyes, can you imagine what the players were thinking? Let's see how we do this Summer before we crucify Woodward again.

homerjay2005 · 16-05-2014 08:46AM

glued wrote: »

Ander Herrera was an absolute bizarre transfer. He's not anywhere near United standard yet Moyes decided that we had to go after him. Athletic Bilbao wanted us to pay the full £30 Million up front. He's not worth £10 Million never mind £30 Million. No club in the world can just cut a cheque for £30 Million

herrera has went on to having a really excellent season and i know hindsight is great and all that, but id rather the money was spent on him as opposed to a last hour panic for Fellaini. of course in an ideal world Fellaini will come good but already one season into his tenure, its been a disaster signing which Woodward made a mess off along with Moyes.

glued wrote: »

You have to look at last Summer overall to see what the problem is. I think blaming Woodward for last Summer is way OTT. Let's see how we do this Summer before we crucify Woodward again.

not once in that post you quoted did i blame Woodward for last summer, so have no idea why you are quoting or referencing it.

if you want to have a read back through 12 months of posts (and good luck with that), alot of the "blame" for last summers debacle was aimed at Moyes with the general consensus being that both him and Woodward acting together was an absolute mess.

Woodward however failed in his basic duty, to seal the deals that this club demands and expects. depending on which media outlets you want to believe, he became obsessed with landing a big target last summer to become a hero with the fans and it was this obsession that then led to panic and a series of disasters such as the ones you have named above along with the Fellaini debacle.

i would hope that under Van Gaal this will not happen and i think its safe to assume that it wont happen. at least now we have a big name manager who can actually attract players as opposed to Moyes who it appears very few top players actually wanted to play for.

beno619 · 16-05-2014 08:47AM

I would blame Woodward for the derisory offers made for Fabregas, I still believe he would have come if we made an offer worth Barca considering being a world cup season and all he needed to play. Im expecting him to make up for it this summer though.

MD1990 · 16-05-2014 08:50AM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Where are these players going to play in the 433 then though? You'd imagine it would be like....
De Gea
Rafael - Jones - Hummels - Shaw
Felaini
Mata
Kroos
Muller
Robben
Van Persie

...but that's shoving Mata in CM just to keep him playing and dropping Rooney from the first squad altogether (which wouldn't keep him happy). Could switch Mata and Rooney for a more organic midfield, but will the club want to relegate their current record signing to bench player? Should they?

Your not going to sign all the players lol.Its not football manager.

Mitch Connor · 16-05-2014 08:53AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

depending on which media outlets you want to believe, he became obsessed with landing a big target last summer to become a hero with the fans

The links to Cavani are down to this problem too - Woodward wants to land a superstar. There have been a few stories in the papers commenting on this in the last two weeks (which is the same as I have read on UWS/RedIssue in the last month).

v3ttel · 16-05-2014 08:53AM

duffman13 wrote: »

Ah they only have kheidera, Alonso, Modric, Isco and Illeramendi. Only about 150 million worth of midfielders, they might be ok though.

Casemiro, too.

fuzzydunlop85 · 16-05-2014 08:57AM

Do we really need Muller? Great player but Can't see where we are gonna accommodate him. Need to start at the defense and go from there! Experienced centre half, left back, cover at rb, and two centre midfielders these have to be the priority. As much as Young and Valencia infuriate me I'm willing to endure them one more season as I can't see us signing more than five players this summer.

homerjay2005 · 16-05-2014 08:57AM

beno619 wrote: »

I would blame Woodward for the derisory offers made for Fabregas, I still believe he would have come if we made an offer worth Barca considering being a world cup season and all he needed to play. Im expecting him to make up for it this summer though.

the fabregas saga summed up our summer, it went on for 6 or 7 weeks and by all accounts, all we did was put in bids that were around the same as what we ended up paying for Fellaini plus maybe a million or two in the second one.

two things happened here -

Moyes wanted him without any indication of player/club wanted the deal to happen and just said put in a bid and lets see. it failed, we upped by a few million and it was rejected. we thought about going higher but didnt as the player didnt want to come to us anyway and/or barcelona didnt want to sell for any money.

OR

Fabregas agent put the feelers out that the player wanted to leave and United picked up on that. we put in two bids based on a player being unhappy and wanting to get him relatively cheap. we didnt go high enough with the bid and never really tested Barcelonas resolve.

now, the motivation behind what the agent did is another question - did he have genuine reason to leave or was he just looking for assurances of playing and/or improved contract??

eitherway, if we wanted him we should have put in a proper bid for what the player was worth (around €40million) and be done with it. if it was rejected - we move on, accepted then great we have a world class player.

we wasted too much time on it and last summer and january showed we only at the moment seem to have capability to seal one deal at a time as opposed to multiple at the one time.

again, hopefully this changes this summer in fact it needs to as going off previous deals it takes us 2 or 3 months to seal each one.

lordgoat · 16-05-2014 09:05AM

Keno wrote: »

shadowcomplex now has a nemesis.

Beaten to it!!

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Alright lads really enjoy reading the forum. Long time lurker first time poster! Some great posters on here and hopefully I will be able to contribute this summer/season.

Anyone watch the Uefa cup final last night? Really think we should be making a move for Rakitic, has really impressed me any time I've seen him this season. Just the kind of player we need in midfield. Anyone know what his situation at Sevilla is?

Welcome Fuzzy, our man on the street so to speak.

homerjay2005 · 16-05-2014 09:06AM

MD1990 wrote: »

Your not going to sign all the players lol.Its not football manager.

looks like the club certainly intends to sign these players, but not many are hopeful of actually getting them.

last summer looks like we wanted 4 players - but at 10.50 on deadline day we had signed nobody so at the moment nervous/cautious optimism is the way to go.

funningly enough however, City had all their deals done by the time preseason was started so it shows it can be done, if we have the right people to do it. if we are to challenge for the league next year as Woodward, Charlton and Fergie keep saying, then its up to the club not to deliver minimum 4 players to make that happen.

the other worrying aspect is that there still appears to be a bit of a "these players were champions" attitude around the club and they perhaps believe that signing 1 or 2 players will do - it wont.

glued · 16-05-2014 09:11AM

Woodward is going to have a lot of people looking very foolish at the end of this Summer. Including the resident crack pots on UWS/RI.

16-05-2014 09:14AM

Quick article this morning; Built from the same mould as Fergie?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/james-lawton-van-gaal-built-from-the-same-mould-as-fergie-30278820.html

bullvine · 16-05-2014 09:15AM

Does the average person really know the inner workings of the club, granted last summer was an absolute shambles but since then we've signed Mata, got Rooney and Adnan signed up and got rid of Moyes, not all bad by the Chief Exec!

homerjay2005 · 16-05-2014 09:18AM

glued wrote: »

Woodward is going to have a lot of people looking very foolish at the end of this Summer. Including the resident crack pots on UWS/RI.

how is that? so far the only person that has looked foolish is the man himself.

now, being realistic - it is in the best interest of our club that he delivers - the criticism of him so far has been justified, we all hope he has learned from it and does the job this summer.

there is nothing to be gained by us having another poor window so i cannot see how us signing players makes those who critic him being foolish. we now also have (we assume) a top class manager who can make up for the faults that Woodward has and made actually help Woodward grow into the role that he is there to do.

Mitch Connor · 16-05-2014 09:20AM

bullvine wrote: »

Does the average person really know the inner workings of the club, granted last summer was an absolute shambles but since then we've signed Mata, got Rooney and Adnan signed up and got rid of Moyes, not all bad by the Chief Exec!

Mata deal Woodward was very hands off on by all accounts - leaving it to a third party, may have been the correct call as the reason was he didn't want a face to face with chelsea as Rooney talk would likely sour any deal.

Adnan is the highest paid teenager in football, apparently, so not much of a coup!

Rooney deal looks a good one on paper alright.

bullvine · 16-05-2014 09:26AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Mata deal Woodward was very hands off on by all accounts - leaving it to a third party, may have been the correct call as the reason was he didn't want a face to face with chelsea as Rooney talk would likely sour any deal.

Adnan is the highest paid teenager in football, apparently, so not much of a coup!

Rooney deal looks a good one on paper alright.

I'm by no means supporting Woodward but I'd like to think last summers problems may have also being caused by Moyes. Moyes handled the Fabregas Transfer saga very badly. Also the things he said when trying to buy Fellaini/Baines when he knew the clause in Fellainis contract, letting it go and run on when he could have got the deal done in July, turning it into a panic buy.

homerjay2005 · 16-05-2014 09:26AM

Mark Ogdan claiming the total cost of the Moyes reign is actually £50.4million and not the partly sum that Woodward tried to depict yesterday on the WS call.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10834847/Manchester-United-lose-out-on-50.4m-as-they-count-cost-of-former-manager-David-Moyess-troubled-reign.html

thats £50million that would not have been accounted for in our financials for 2014-2015 season and this i fear is where the real problems are going to start...

bullvine · 16-05-2014 09:29AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Mark Ogdan claiming the total cost of the Moyes reign is actually £50.4million and not the partly sum that Woodward tried to depict yesterday on the WS call.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10834847/Manchester-United-lose-out-on-50.4m-as-they-count-cost-of-former-manager-David-Moyess-troubled-reign.html

Well if you add in the loss of CL money, the extra money having to pay out for Fellaini and Moyes payoff that would be close to 50m. What a disaster! Worse could come as well, could end up having to bin Fellaini in the future if he doesn't come good.

homerjay2005 · 16-05-2014 09:30AM

bullvine wrote: »

Fellainis contract, letting it go and run on when he could have got the deal done in July, turning it into a panic buy.

the logical explanation here is that Fellaini was actually not the main intended target but only a back up option.

when all our other targets failed, we then turned to Fellaini as we had nobody else and there was an element of face saving going on to sign him.

it makes zero sense that we waited 2 months to sign him and then ended up over paying - if we really really wanted him, he'd have been signed before we left for preseason.

Mitch Connor · 16-05-2014 09:30AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Mark Ogdan claiming the total cost of the Moyes reign is actually £50.4million and not the partly sum that Woodward tried to depict yesterday on the WS call.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10834847/Manchester-United-lose-out-on-50.4m-as-they-count-cost-of-former-manager-David-Moyess-troubled-reign.html

Talking about two different things, to be fair.

Woodward was specifically talking about the pay-off to Moyes (One years wages - so about 6million).

Ogden is talking about drop in PL prize-money, loss of uefa cash next year AND the payoff.

The drop in PL prize money is also only notional, compared against a figure we would have got if we had won the league - as we actually earned far more from the PL this season (about 30million I think) than we did last season as the TV deal is worth a lot more. Cardiff got more PL cash this year than we did last year.

glued · 16-05-2014 09:33AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Mark Ogdan claiming the total cost of the Moyes reign is actually £50.4million and not the partly sum that Woodward tried to depict yesterday on the WS call.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10834847/Manchester-United-lose-out-on-50.4m-as-they-count-cost-of-former-manager-David-Moyess-troubled-reign.html

thats £50million that would not have been accounted for in our financials for 2014-2015 season and this i fear is where the real problems are going to start...

Woodward claimed the fee for sacking Moyes was £7M, which is true. You can't blame Woodward for the other £43.4M lost in revenue due to Moyes' performance on the field.

Are you going to blame 9/11 on him next :rolleyes:

bangkok · 16-05-2014 09:33AM

said it before and I will say it again....Toni Kroos will sign for us this summer....

Mitch Connor · 16-05-2014 09:33AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the logical explanation here is that Fellaini was actually not the main intended target but only a back up option.

when all our other targets failed, we then turned to Fellaini as we had nobody else and there was an element of face saving going on to sign him.

it makes zero sense that we waited 2 months to sign him and then ended up over paying - if we really really wanted him, he'd have been signed before we left for preseason.

We tried to buy him (and baines) twice during the summer - so that argument makes no sense. We didn't wait two months and then bid for him; we had previous bids rejected - so he was somewhere on the list of targets all along.

I reckon the plan was to add him as a relatively inexpensive squad player (alongside Fabregas as the main buy) and it all went tits up - ending up with just an expensive Fellaini.

homerjay2005 · 16-05-2014 09:36AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Talking about two different things, to be fair.

Woodward was specifically talking about the pay-off to Moyes (One years wages - so about 6million).

Ogden is talking about drop in PL prize-money, loss of uefa cash next year AND the payoff.

The drop in PL prize money is also only notional, compared against a figure we would have got if we had won the league - as we actually earned far more from the PL this season (about 30million I think) than we did last season as the TV deal is worth a lot more. Cardiff got more PL cash this year than we did last year.

you are forgetting that this money would have been projected for next season, including added rises in PL and broadcasting revenue.

remember, finishing in the top 3 and 1/4 final of all 3 cups is minimum expectations for our financial goals - we failed to hit them this year and will certainly fail to hit them next year seen as we have no CL football.

we should be close to the £420million projection for 2014 (or at least within £20million) but next year we'd have been expecting to hit way more than this and probably will miss it by £50million and this as i said is where the problem will arise. our profits certainly are going to be down and this then in turn will effect our ability to sign players.

as we always said on here, the Glazer ownership was never a problem until we had a disaster season and now this time has arrived.

brinty · 16-05-2014 09:38AM

Lads on last summer and transfers, its well documented how much Moyes scouts players before he'll pull the trigger on signing. Woodward came out and said he needed to be much quicker on pulling the trigger in future after what happened.

The panic on the last day of summer transfer Fellaini, Coentrao(loan/buy), Herrera (the 3 amigo's) and Khediera (we bid for him) and turning down Ozil was a massive show of panic and was the first sign to me that Mpoyes was out of his depth. I said him trying to sign players was going to be flawed as any player/target would've been saying "david who????"

Woodward said it again in feb/march time that Moyes need to start pulling the trigger on player transfers. They scouted Carvalho 20 odd times i think and Moyes still wasn't sure. i think Woodward wnated to get things rolling/tied up pre world cup as he knew the bind we'd be in post world cup and the truncated pre season..

just something to think about!!!

So maybe the equaliser is doing a better job than we're giving him credit for..

homerjay2005 · 16-05-2014 09:38AM

glued wrote: »

Woodward claimed the fee for sacking Moyes was £7M, which is true. You can't blame Woodward for the other £43.4M lost in revenue due to Moyes' performance on the field.

Are you going to blame 9/11 on him next :rolleyes:

again, where did i blame Woodward for the loss in revenue? thats twice now you have accused me of blaiming woodward for something that i have not done.

you seem awfully defensive of our CE and seem to know alot of my dislike of him for somebody who has so few posts on here until recently.

hmmmmm

Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

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