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Horizon TV- Awful?

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    #212
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    STB wrote: »
    People are given the option are they ? So UPC arent just couriering these new boxes out to peoples houses with now give your old box to the courier and RTFM! Some people may have expected that the arrangements they were signing up to involved some sort of interaction from the subscription company themselves! I know the people I have spoken to did.

    Yes.
    STB wrote: »
    Its cheaper that way ! For whom ? UPC ?
    For the customer. A €50 installation fee applies so yeah, setting it up yourself is cheaper. Not sure what the issue is there.
    STB wrote: »
    How many posts does it take to realise there is a series of issues here ?

    This isn't the UPC forum, I'm not sure why anyone would expect to post here and for it to have any effect.

    I have Horizon for over a year now, I'm very happy with it and installation was a doddle; remove old box, plug existing cable into new box, done. Set up gets more complicated if you start faffing around with home networks and twonky alright but I doubt many non-technical people would be on for that.

    The TV service is not as good as Sky, no question there, but the broadband is in another dimension compared to the Eircom/Sky offering.


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    #213
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    bajer101 wrote: »
    Every channel change takes about one second - and you don't even know if your button press has registered.

    I have no idea how you change the channels but Ive had the box for a good while now and this is utter nonsense.


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    #214
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Mine is a bit random. Some times its ok. Other times I wonder have the batteries gone.


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    #215
    bajer101
    Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    I have no idea how you change the channels but Ive had the box for a good while now and this is utter nonsense.

    It's not utter nonsense. The various threads on the Horizon box are filled with people complaining about the same thing. If you want to browse through channels, there is a delay between pressing the button and the OSD for what is on the next channel appearing. If, for example you are watching RTE1 and an ad comes on and you want to browse through the other channels to see what is on, it takes a long time for the box to respond. It is a very basic function that the old box does well and which the Sky box does even better.


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    #216
    Jimmy Conway
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭Jimmy Conway


    Well having had the box since the initial rollout mine is being sent back on Friday for the old box. I've had 4 different horizon boxes in the time I've had it all with different problems.
    The straw that broke the camel's back this time is that it looses connection to the xbox whilst watching TV and you have to reboot the thing. No more replacements thanks just give me the old box, at least it was fit for purpose.
    UPC really pushed out a ball of shi*e with the horizon IMO


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    #217
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    bajer101 wrote: »
    It's not utter nonsense. The various threads on the Horizon box are filled with people complaining about the same thing. If you want to browse through channels, there is a delay between pressing the button and the OSD for what is on the next channel appearing. If, for example you are watching RTE1 and an ad comes on and you want to browse through the other channels to see what is on, it takes a long time for the box to respond. It is a very basic function that the old box does well and which the Sky box does even better.

    Thats not changing the channel...


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    #218
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just sat down to watch a film I recorded this morning only to discover that it stopped recording after 36 minutes because according to the box I'm not subscribed to the channel. Would be funny if it was the first time but it happens so often that I'm asking them to remove it. Tried ringing up today and was met with a "there is nothing wrong with the box. You must be doing it wrong"


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    #219
    bajer101
    Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    bajer101 wrote: »
    The problem with the Horizon box is not with the setup - that is easy. The problem is that it is a heap of junk. Elderly, non-techy people could set it up themselves - but like everyone else, they will not be able to watch TV satisfactorily. I had it for two days and organised its return before I ended up throwing it over the balcony. The big problem for me was that you just cannot browse through channels. Every channel change takes about one second - and you don't even know if your button press has registered.
    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    I have no idea how you change the channels but Ive had the box for a good while now and this is utter nonsense.
    bajer101 wrote: »
    It's not utter nonsense. The various threads on the Horizon box are filled with people complaining about the same thing. If you want to browse through channels, there is a delay between pressing the button and the OSD for what is on the next channel appearing. If, for example you are watching RTE1 and an ad comes on and you want to browse through the other channels to see what is on, it takes a long time for the box to respond. It is a very basic function that the old box does well and which the Sky box does even better.
    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    Thats not changing the channel...

    If you read my original post, the main complaint I had related to browsing channels and the amount of time it takes when browsing to the next channel. It was changing channel in browse mode that was my biggest gripe. But actually changing channel suffers from this too, if you use the browse method to change, as opposed to already knowing what channel you want and just punching in the number, or going to the full guide. I actually found that going to the full guide was quicker than just trying to flick through channels. This is a major fail for the UI and it is something that numerous people have complained about. They tried to enhance the channel browsing experience by providing a preview of what was on the the channel that you were browsing to, but this introduced an unacceptable lag.

    In my brief time with the box I also experienced some other problems. WiFi range was weak. The all in one solution meant that if any service hung you had to reboot the box which meant that you lost all services for the duration. This happened to me twice in two days. I could have worked around these problems by hanging a separate router from the box - but it was annoying. The built-in DLNA server was a waste of time, and there are countless reports of problems with the recording function. These wouldn't have bothered me as I don't really record and I already have other options for DLNA. But the simple act of trying to browse through channels was the deal breaker for me. I'm a channel hopper and I simply could not live with the lag when flicking from one channel to another.


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    #220
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    I press channel up to go up a channel and channel down to go down a channel. These channel changes are as quick or quicker then my Sky box. If I know what channel I want to goto then I key in the number. Pretty straightforward if you ask me, I still have no idea what youre doing but it still sounds like youre taking the longest route to get somewhere and then complaining about the journey time.


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    #221
    bajer101
    Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    I press channel up to go up a channel and channel down to go down a channel. These channel changes are as quick or quicker then my Sky box. If I know what channel I want to goto then I key in the number. Pretty straightforward if you ask me, I still have no idea what youre doing but it still sounds like youre taking the longest route to get somewhere and then complaining about the journey time.

    Maybe you just have different viewing habits than me, or maybe I'm not explaining myself very well - but I'll try to explain it better. I'm watching RTE1 and an ad comes on, or the show that I'm watching ends. I want to flick through the next 100 channels to see what is on (without actually changing the channel). With the old box, or with a Sky box, I just hit the up arrow and the box responds instantly showing me what is on those channels. If I see something I like, I hit ok and it changes to that channel. In an ad break of 3.5 minutes I can browse all the way up to the movie channels no problem. Try doing this with the Horizon box! You hit the up arrow to browse and it takes a second to register. Press and hold the up arrow and when it eventually registers and goes through the channels, if you do see something you want to watch, if you release the button, it will continue browsing past your desired station.

    This is TV channel browsing 101 and UPC have ballsed it up with the Horizon box. Sky have had this function for yonks and have known not to mess with it. UPC have had it ok on all of their older boxes but have tried to introduce a preview function with Horizon that just does not work.


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    #222
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,400 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    bajer101 wrote: »
    Maybe you just have different viewing habits than me, or maybe I'm not explaining myself very well - but I'll try to explain it better. I'm watching RTE1 and an ad comes on, or the show that I'm watching ends. I want to flick through the next 100 channels to see what is on (without actually changing the channel). With the old box, or with a Sky box, I just hit the up arrow and the box responds instantly showing me what is on those channels. If I see something I like, I hit ok and it changes to that channel. In an ad break of 3.5 minutes I can browse all the way up to the movie channels no problem. Try doing this with the Horizon box! You hit the up arrow to browse and it takes a second to register. Press and hold the up arrow and when it eventually registers and goes through the channels, if you do see something you want to watch, if you release the button, it will continue browsing past your desired station.

    This is TV channel browsing 101 and UPC have ballsed it up with the Horizon box. Sky have had this function for yonks and have known not to mess with it. UPC have had it ok on all of their older boxes but have tried to introduce a preview function with Horizon that just does not work.

    Does my head in aswell.

    there is no easy way to see what is on other channels. the guide is way too slllooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww

    the mini browser is also ****eeeee


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    #223
    Thomas
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Thomas


    ted1 wrote: »
    Does my head in aswell.

    there is no easy way to see what is on other channels. the guide is way too slllooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww

    the mini browser is also ****eeeee

    My parents have Sky HD and I have UPC Horizon after having the 'old' UPC box.

    The Horizon software is by far the worst of them all. I can see where they were trying to go but to completely mess up standard channel browsing in a new epg is a disgrace. I won't even comment on the recording functionality.

    I'm sure the Horizon box has the capacity to be completely revamped over the air.

    Please UPC, do something!


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    #224
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Pretty simple solution for you all - Switch to Sky!

    More channels, exclusive content, a fluid interface etc.

    But seriously, I was looking at a friends Horizon box and although it's a pretty good idea, having everything in one it is terribly slow.

    The WiFi range is brutal as well.

    You press a button and wait 10 seconds and then it might load, meanwhile on Sky you press a button and it's instant.


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    #225
    pippip
    Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭pippip


    AlanS181824 wrote: »
    Pretty simple solution for you all - Switch to Sky!

    More channels, exclusive content, a fluid interface etc.

    But seriously, I was looking at a friends Horizon box and although it's a pretty good idea, having everything in one it is terribly slow.

    The WiFi range is brutal as well.

    You press a button and wait 10 seconds and then it might load, meanwhile on Sky you press a button and it's instant.

    A few reasons why its not a "simple solution", depending on your setup SKY can be very expensive compared to a similar UPC package.

    Another is the broadband speed, for people who want this SKY cannot match UPC. SKY keep going on about their "fibre broadband" yet it still hasn't appeared in most areas and is only 70mb. Even when it does its eircoms lines and this may cause many issues with so many parties involved.

    There are also a few minor issues with SKY like not being able to record itv and also no Setanta Ireland for free that might influence some people.

    For others its simply that they are living in apartments etc that are not permitted dishes. I know SKY brought in the communal dish but alot of apartments still wont install them.


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    #226
    Giruilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Giruilla


    I'm absolutely baffled as to how there is anyone on here actually defending the horizon box, and especially its UI and 'channel browsing'.

    There are so many things wrong with the box its beyond belief that they had the chutzpah to release it.

    Its like the UI actively discourages channel browsing.. slow to change channel (takes a second - this is a fact - how can anyone dispute this?), and having now and next on separate screens that are slow to change between them is fundamentally illogical.

    I've worked in this industry, and my guess is the box was a rush job on a tight budget. Corners were clearly cut in regards to testing.. and processing speed for RF interface to CPU transactions is in a word - shoddy.
    The whole GUI is clearly based on the open source XBMC..
    which I've used on the PC, and certainly doesn't have speed issues.. so I don't understand how whoever designed the box messed it up so badly.
    The fact that people have had so many problems with the box screams rush job.. but what I can't understand are the basic basic problems the box has in terms of channel browsing. Did they take any user feedback whatsoever?!


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    #227
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Mine has got a lot slower channel switching in the last couple of days. It seems to go to sleep, only once its "woken" does the speed become vaguely usable.


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    #228
    Giruilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Giruilla


    bajer101 wrote: »
    Press and hold the up arrow and when it eventually registers and goes through the channels, if you do see something you want to watch, if you release the button, it will continue browsing past your desired station.

    I noticed that problem too. Basic software bug where commands are buffered BEFORE the channel actually starts to move causing user experience to be out of sync with the box transactions. SO basic.. a modicum of testing should have picked this up.
    Yet UPC still haven't brought out a software upgrade.


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    #229
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I love how UPC tell me that they can't findan issue with our box but will send out an engineer to check it. Great but if he can't pinpoint an issue we have to pay. UPC reps here keep saying that we can get a separate router but what they don't say is that's only after their engineer calls out and can find an issue. They seem to think that most of us just haven't our computers set up correctly and the issue is on our part.

    Sat down yesterday to watch episode 3 of Prey. Went to the recording and it seemed to be there but alas it was unwatchable given that they're were lines across overt half the screen. Recorded a number of western on Monday. 2 cut out before the half way mark, one recorded all but is completely out of sync and the final one has lines across three screen. Today already I've had to plug out the box twice as anytime I try to access the TV guide the box freezes. It's obvious that UPC released a broken product and had no intention of fixing it. They tell us they are working on it but have no time frame for a fix is a cop out. I bet that if I told them thati was having issues paying they wouldn't be happy yet expect us to be happy paying for a defective service.

    What really is most annoying is that the reps here refuse to offer any help about the issues. All they say is contract us andwwe'll look into it but it goes no future. Ring up UPC and tell them your issues and you'll be called a liar or worse


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    #230
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    The whole UI is a disaster.

    Pressing the arrows does nothing until you press 'Back' which is totally counter intuitive.
    It's also counter intuitive how you quickly get back to watching TV when you're deep within a menu (3-5 levels).

    The 'tv' button does the job but it's not prominent enough on the remote to show it's importance when using the remote.
    Programs are slow to show progress when you press record for a program.

    I could go on but they've probably been covered already.


    All in all, a disaster from a QA point of view. I honestly don't know how it got out the door in the state it's in.


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    #231
    Giruilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Giruilla


    Caliden wrote: »
    The whole UI is a disaster.

    Pressing the arrows does nothing until you press 'Back' which is totally counter intuitive.
    It's also counter intuitive how you quickly get back to watching TV when you're deep within a menu (3-5 levels).

    The 'tv' button does the job but it's not prominent enough on the remote to show it's importance when using the remote.
    Programs are slow to show progress when you press record for a program.

    I could go on but they've probably been covered already.


    All in all, a disaster from a QA point of view. I honestly don't know how it got out the door in the state it's in.

    Spot on about the 'counter intuitive'-ness. I think the funniest is pressing OK and an option to PAUSE, INFO, RECORD comes up. a) having to press OK, OK to pause a channel is bizarre, and b) theres a PAUSE button on the remote already!

    Another annoying thing is the channel surfing is SO slow with the arrow keys, that if you want to skip a '100 ' channels up (and do it within 1 minute), you need to use the keypad. Yet for some reason they made the keypad tiny, cramped and located at the top of the remote, meaning you need to change your hand position from the arrow/OK button area to use it!


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    #232
    Zascar
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 12,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zascar


    All the above is spot on and much of it said before. Interesting points by Giruilla which I had wondered about - based on xbmc but totally sh1t. Clearly did not user testing. It was rushed, not done properly and probably with a small budget - as all the budget went to the marketing department for their massive advertising campaigns.

    The question remains - will they be able to fix these issues and push out and update? Or are they even bothered? As if this box worked the way it was intended, it wouldn't be that bad...


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    #233
    JDxtra
    Registered Users Posts: 5,877 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    Is this box as bad in other UPC regions, or have UPC Ireland botched it up through customisation or their implementation?


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    #234
    Giruilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Giruilla


    Zascar wrote: »
    The question remains - will they be able to fix these issues and push out and update? Or are they even bothered? As if this box worked the way it was intended, it wouldn't be that bad...

    The fact that they haven't (afaik) released a single software upgrade to combat the basic UI bugs is worrying.
    The fact that the UPC reps aren't giving any feedback about the bugs and are question dodging is worrying.

    I'm guessing here.. but what I imagine is.. UPC employed SAMSUNG to design the STB. UPC decided they needed the box released by a certain date, and signed off on it without sufficient testing and debug done, due to time and budget constraints. The engineers who worked on the box have moved onto a different project and aren't available to get back into working/testing on the Horizon box.
    That, or UPC don't have the budget to commission further upgrades be done by a third party.. whether it be Samsung or someone else.
    I imagine they're just hoping people will stop complaining and accept it for how it is. Which is far from good enough in my opinion.


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    #235
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I wish they'd fix the order of the channels. I know you can use favourites. But why BBC2 HD is stuck out a long way from everything else makes no sense. or why the +1 channel of some channels is not the next channel.


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    #236
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭SteM


    JDxtra wrote: »
    Is this box as bad in other UPC regions, or have UPC Ireland botched it up through customisation or their implementation?

    From looking at other forums it seems as bad in other regions. It was released in other regions and still had issues in those regions when it was released on trial here. Those issues were not fixed throughout the trial here and was given a general release with all of these issues still in place.

    Look back through threads on Boards and you'll see people who took part in the trial complaining about the same stuff that everyone else is now complaining about. We were told that all of these issues would be fixed in time but they're all still there.

    A PVR that doesn’t get the basics right IMO. It seems to do lots of stuff poorly rather them getting the basics right and then moving on to other functionality. Why didn't they spend more time on the UI rather than wasting time on a poorly implemented DNLA client that 99% of people won't bother with? The box set/catchup tv stuff is poorly implemented. Why were they advertising it saying that you can use you smartphone or tablets to watch content when only Apple products could use this functionality? Why didn't the designers look at their last box and note down the actually USEFUL functionality and ensure that this functionality was the first thing to go into the new system?

    I've had it since trial. I'm on my third box. I've lost all of the recorded programs on the box twice through technical glitches. My wife has deleted everything by mistake once. The wi-fi has given up the ghost and I'm back on a separate router - thank god for that as it has improved my wi-fi signal no end and stopped the constant signal dropping. The Horizon roll out has been a real shambles as far as I can see.


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    #237
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    beauf wrote: »
    I wish they'd fix the order of the channels. I know you can use favourites. But why BBC2 HD is stuck out a long way from everything else makes no sense. or why the +1 channel of some channels is not the next channel.

    The BBC Two situation is because BBC Two HD is BBC Two English Regions but SD is BBC Two Northern Ireland. It can't be swapped because the BBC won't let it and it's not the same region.


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    #238
    daphil
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭daphil


    SteM wrote: »
    From looking at other forums it seems as bad in other regions. It was released in other regions and still had issues in those regions when it was released on trial here. Those issues were not fixed throughout the trial here and was given a general release with all of these issues still in place.

    Look back through threads on Boards and you'll see people who took part in the trial complaining about the same stuff that everyone else is now complaining about. We were told that all of these issues would be fixed in time but they're all still there.

    A PVR that doesn’t get the basics right IMO. It seems to do lots of stuff poorly rather them getting the basics right and then moving on to other functionality. Why didn't they spend more time on the UI rather than wasting time on a poorly implemented DNLA client that 99% of people won't bother with? The box set/catchup tv stuff is poorly implemented. Why were they advertising it saying that you can use you smartphone or tablets to watch content when only Apple products could use this functionality? Why didn't the designers look at their last box and note down the actually USEFUL functionality and ensure that this functionality was the first thing to go into the new system?

    I've had it since trial. I'm on my third box. I've lost all of the recorded programs on the box twice through technical glitches. My wife has deleted everything by mistake once. The wi-fi has given up the ghost and I'm back on a separate router - thank god for that as it has improved my wi-fi signal no end and stopped the constant signal dropping. The Horizon roll out has been a real shambles as far as I can see.

    Programs available on Android for some time. I can watch programs in my garden shed, on phone or Tablet.
    guess I have been lucky, UI a bit chunky, but apart from that, am very happy


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    #239
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    icdg wrote: »
    The BBC Two situation is because BBC Two HD is BBC Two English Regions but SD is BBC Two Northern Ireland. It can't be swapped because the BBC won't let it and it's not the same region.

    ..ok but at least beside each other...


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    #240
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    beauf wrote: »
    ..ok but at least beside each other...

    Then UTV wouldn't be on 110 and they wouldn't allow that either.


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    #241
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    former legend wrote: »
    Then UTV wouldn't be on 110 and they wouldn't allow that either.

    I don't get it. why do the stations have a say in it?


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