Pigs as rotavators...

Cran · 12-05-2014 03:16PM

Not sure how well they'd work, tend to clump stuff together see the before and after pics. Wife got 2 last year after asking if she could use the 1/3 acre plot beside the house, were only 8/9 weeks old when got and did this in about 3/4 weeks. This was also during the dry summer which slowed them up a bit I think.

Plus side great craic to keep, fantastic meat and reasonably easy to mind as well, electric fence worked well until they got older then they just walked through it at will. Downside bar the state of the paddock and its still in that state none really...

Neddyusa · 12-05-2014 03:22PM

Base price wrote: »

Looking at the photos and just wondering, what type of grass seed would you use to reseed. I am only asking as I presume that the grass that is growing there is regional specific and has survived/thrived in the unique conditions.

Fully agree with this. Don't want to knock what you are doing Con, but sowing ryegrass in that type of land would be a step backwards IMO.

The vast majority of perennial ryegrass seeds on the market are bred to grow in deep, well drained, fertile and high pH soils. They would be unlikely to survive one wet winter in most of Conamara.

In fact, most of those grasses would struggle to survive in some of the wetter land of the Golden Vale even!

The existing species of grass in your fields on the other hand have been selected naturally (combined with management) over hundreds of years to adapt to your local weather and soil conditions. It is highly unlikely that any purchased perennial rye-grass will perform any better than the native grass in your conditions. Think of it as equivalent to buying in a flock of soft Suffolk ewes and letting them off on the hill...
Certainly not enough of an improvement to be worth the time, money and effort required to till and reseed it.

I know if you have your heart set on redeeding that ground my advice may not be welcome...but if it was my ground I would concentrate on tackling the rushes, improving drainage (I see you are at this anyway!) fencing, breeding etc....will give you a much better return than reseeding rocky hill or bog!

Conmaicne Mara · 12-05-2014 03:46PM

All well meaning advice is welcome, even constructive criticism which can be very useful

I said from day one that this was an experiment. It started out of thinking of white clover, progressed to how to manage the natural white clover, strayed then into introduced white clover by overseeding, and progressed on to where I am at the moment.

For the record, there are reseeded swards already operating in Connemara

I take the point, and indeed live it every day, that we are disadvantaged in the land quality available. When it's the only land available, then that's what I must work with.

Also, in previous threads it was suggested I should reseed the best of my land. I took those points and do understand them. However, I hedged my betting here by compromising and choosing the two acres of what I consider "middling" quality ground (quality being a relative term here). I did this precisely because I had failure at the back of my mind. With little enough of my good land as it is I didn't want to go destroying it, that policy has been agreed with locally too.

At the end of the day, how I try to avoid using that phrase, the farm has several glaring issues. One is the weather which I can't change. Another is soil fertility which I can change, but in the medium not short term. Another is the grass and trying to introduce new grass which combined with future lime applications will hopefully respond better and earlier to fertiliser applications. Another is grassland management which I am also hoping to start address with rotational grazing. The latter two I can make a stab at this year.

If all that sounds like a rant it isn't meant to

It's how my thoughts come out some times and some of the topics to the forefront of my mind. I notice I've left out breeding completely.................................. Breeding isn't where my head is this week lol.

Another reason to hopefully successfully introduce new grass is to use less concentrate

My own belief at the moment is a two wheel tractor with power harrow will be brought in for a week. But, I have the harrow now, can spray off when conditions allow, so I will push on with that plan and if it fails I am one step closer to success

Or the correct quote which I just looked up:

“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”
― Thomas Edison

Neddyusa · 12-05-2014 05:02PM

Fair play Con...no-one could accuse you of not considering all options anway!..Am always amazed how the landscape brings out the resourcefullness in ye lads back west;)

My other advice would be to try it out on an acre or two in the first year and you'll have your own list of To-do's and Not-to-do's for the next few acres in year two if it works out. And aim to sow during the summer so it has the best chance to get established before autumn.

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

All well meaning advice is welcome, even constructive criticism which can be very useful

I said from day one that this was an experiment. It started out of thinking of white clover, progressed to how to manage the natural white clover, strayed then into introduced white clover by overseeding, and progressed on to where I am at the moment.

For the record, there are reseeded swards already operating in Connemara I take the point, and indeed live it every day, that we are disadvantaged in the land quality available. When it's the only land available, then that's what I must work with.

Also, in previous threads it was suggested I should reseed the best of my land. I took those points and do understand them. However, I hedged my betting here by compromising and choosing the two acres of what I consider "middling" quality ground (quality being a relative term here). I did this precisely because I had failure at the back of my mind. With little enough of my good land as it is I didn't want to go destroying it, that policy has been agreed with locally too.

At the end of the day, how I try to avoid using that phrase, the farm has several glaring issues. One is the weather which I can't change. Another is soil fertility which I can change, but in the medium not short term. Another is the grass and trying to introduce new grass which combined with future lime applications will hopefully respond better and earlier to fertiliser applications. Another is grassland management which I am also hoping to start address with rotational grazing. The latter two I can make a stab at this year.

If all that sounds like a rant it isn't meant to It's how my thoughts come out some times and some of the topics to the forefront of my mind. I notice I've left out breeding completely.................................. Breeding isn't where my head is this week lol.

Another reason to hopefully successfully introduce new grass is to use less concentrate

My own belief at the moment is a two wheel tractor with power harrow will be brought in for a week. But, I have the harrow now, can spray off when conditions allow, so I will push on with that plan and if it fails I am one step closer to success

Or the correct quote which I just looked up:

“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”
― Thomas Edison

Farmer Pudsey · 12-05-2014 09:12PM

Too true Con the man who never made a mistake never did nothing. If for every 2-3 mistakes you get one thing right you are still ahead.

Mad4simmental · 13-05-2014 01:41PM

Better to regret the things you done than the things you never done. Chip away

monseiur · 15-05-2014 12:53PM

From your photos I would guess that you are trying to farm on what is reclaimed land. Before the great famine with the population over 8 million and rising, with large families on small holdings some members of these families had to move out, and to survive, reclaimed pockets of commonage land on the sides of mountains etc. used the stone that they cleared to build wall around the gardens/fields etc.
After the famine with no one left to till this land, the majority of this land returned to it's natural state - nature took over.
Some plots, like yours, continued to be worked the traditional way by basic had tools, spade, scyth, sickle, etc. The fields were drained over winter, stone wall topped etc. ready for potatoes, oats, & hay the following season - crop rotation was standard practice. It was basic subsistence hand to mouth existence.
Gradually in the last century when farming methods throughout the rest of the country became more mechanised and the horse was made redundant those unfortunate to be farming on plots of land like yours were still tilling the land with the same hand tools as their fore fathers three or four hundred years before and for a reason
So you have a choice, continue to farm as generations before you with the spade, scyth etc. or consider selling up and buy land suitable for the farming methods of the 21st. century.

M

Conmaicne Mara · 15-05-2014 01:20PM

monseiur wrote: »

From your photos I would guess that you are trying to farm on what is reclaimed land. Before the great famine with the population over 8 million and rising, with large families on small holdings some members of these families had to move out, and to survive, reclaimed pockets of commonage land on the sides of mountains etc. used the stone that they cleared to build wall around the gardens/fields etc.
After the famine with no one left to till this land, the majority of this land returned to it's natural state - nature took over.
Some plots, like yours, continued to be worked the traditional way by basic had tools, spade, scyth, sickle, etc. The fields were drained over winter, stone wall topped etc. ready for potatoes, oats, & hay the following season - crop rotation was standard practice. It was basic subsistence hand to mouth existence.
Gradually in the last century when farming methods throughout the rest of the country became more mechanised and the horse was made redundant those unfortunate to be farming on plots of land like yours were still tilling the land with the same hand tools as their fore fathers three or four hundred years before and for a reason
So you have a choice, continue to farm as generations before you with the spade, scyth etc. or consider selling up and buy land suitable for the farming methods of the 21st. century.

M

Sure, most land will return to scrub if it isn't farmed. When I was up in Meath I saw plenty of it. I have seen dairy farms operate on reclaimed bog in North Kerry near Listowel. I'd say there's plenty of farms in the midlands reclaimed bog. Bad land often makes better farmers.

There are a lot of 21st century implements that could work my land, but this particular country operates on the impression that anything that isn't a 100hp 4wd tractor isn't worth thinking about. So, the particular implements aren't readily available to me in this country. Unless I pay about $1,000 for transatlantic shipping, plus the price of the implements themselves.

It would be a quiet and empty rural Ireland if everyone was to give up due to adverse land conditions.

gozunda · 15-05-2014 04:40PM

Con

If you still want to give pigs a try I would suggest fencing a small area
and giving couple of hardy pig x breeds a try. I have done this in the past in an area that was heavily overgrown with briars, rock etc etc and it worked well. I was able to 'borrow' young pigs from a neighbour and had them over the summer. They successfully brought back an otherwise uncultivated area which I then levelled and harrowed and reseeded. Haven't look back since.

_Brian · 15-05-2014 04:52PM

monseiur wrote: »

From your photos I would guess that you are trying to farm on what is reclaimed land. Before the great famine with the population over 8 million and rising, with large families on small holdings some members of these families had to move out, and to survive, reclaimed pockets of commonage land on the sides of mountains etc. used the stone that they cleared to build wall around the gardens/fields etc.
After the famine with no one left to till this land, the majority of this land returned to it's natural state - nature took over.
Some plots, like yours, continued to be worked the traditional way by basic had tools, spade, scyth, sickle, etc. The fields were drained over winter, stone wall topped etc. ready for potatoes, oats, & hay the following season - crop rotation was standard practice. It was basic subsistence hand to mouth existence.
Gradually in the last century when farming methods throughout the rest of the country became more mechanised and the horse was made redundant those unfortunate to be farming on plots of land like yours were still tilling the land with the same hand tools as their fore fathers three or four hundred years before and for a reason
So you have a choice, continue to farm as generations before you with the spade, scyth etc. or consider selling up and buy land suitable for the farming methods of the 21st. century.

M

I don't think Con nor anyone else here needs a history lesson on the Famine and general farming practices of our ancestors.

The post above reeks of lads flying round on large JD's with two or three flashing beakons laughing at any lad with less than 150HP and a stack of shiny machinery from the bank when most wouldn't have hands to wipe their arsess.

There's no shame in working on a small scale or trying things a little different. Lads seem to have forgotten that there was a lot of silage made with modest outfits and great stock reared before a 4WD tractor was heard of.

The ignorance of telling a man to either use a scythe and spade or sell his land !!

Conmaicne Mara · 15-05-2014 07:27PM

gozunda wrote: »

Con

If you still want to give pigs a try I would suggest fencing a small area
and giving couple of hardy pig x breeds a try. I have done this in the past in an area that was heavily overgrown with briars, rock etc etc and it worked well. I was able to 'borrow' young pigs from a neighbour and had them over the summer. They successfully brought back an otherwise uncultivated area which I then levelled and harrowed and reseeded. Haven't look back since.

I reckon I won't try them now at this stage. They'll take too long and probably work out expensive. Though the results I've seen do look good

Maybe in one of the really difficult areas, but in those I'd be wary of land slip with lack of vegetation.

J.O. Farmer · 15-05-2014 07:34PM

_Brian wrote: »

I don't think Con nor anyone else here needs a history lesson on the Famine and general farming practices of our ancestors.

The post above reeks of lads flying round on large JD's with two or three flashing beakons laughing at any lad with less than 150HP and a stack of shiny machinery from the bank when most wouldn't have hands to wipe their arsess.

There's no shame in working on a small scale or trying things a little different. Lads seem to have forgotten that there was a lot of silage made with modest outfits and great stock reared before a 4WD tractor was heard of.

The ignorance of telling a man to either use a scythe and spade or sell his land !!

I'll say one thing for Con and that is that the man is a tryer with a great respect for his land. He doesn't cry about how tough he has it but tries new things and seeks advice on ideas. He's probably the best farmer on here in that sense. I fully agree that telling him to use a scythe and spade or sell his land is ignorance.

Sunhill · 15-05-2014 08:07PM

Con
Those photos you took could hardly be bettered for clarity, composition, depth and lighting. The resolution you uploaded them at is also pretty well ideal. I know nothing about pigs or reseeding but you could follow a nice sideline with your camera.

Conmaicne Mara · 15-05-2014 08:09PM

Sunhill wrote: »

Con
Those photos you took could hardly be bettered for clarity, composition, depth and lighting. The resolution you uploaded them at is also pretty well ideal. I know nothing about pigs or reseeding but you could follow a nice sideline with your camera.

Thank you

I would like to learn to use my camera a little better, something I will have to both find the time for, and develop the patience to do properly

The photography forum on here has some spectacular images.

Farmer Pudsey · 11-06-2014 07:37PM

How are you getting on at the reseeding Con.

Pigs as rotavators...

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