Pigs as rotavators...

Conmaicne Mara

Came across a nice photo on Twitter of pigs that had dug up a piece of ground. Was thinking this might be an idea for me in the future for the worst (steeper rocky) land on the farm to reseed.

Take an acre for example, how long and how many pigs would it take to wreck it to the point the grass and thatch would be churned up. Could move them then to the next plot in the plan.

Just thinking out loud. I know they are difficult to fence in from other threads.

mayota

I heard one strand of electric fence would keep them in.

Conmaicne Mara

mayota wrote: »

I heard one strand of electric fence would keep them in.

I see two strands on the twitter pic. But I heard before they're good at shorting the fence by digging up ground so it comes in contact with the fence. I've never kept them before so only going on what I read/heard really.

ford2600

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Came across a nice photo on Twitter of pigs that had dug up a piece of ground. Was thinking this might be an idea for me in the future for the worst (steeper rocky) land on the farm to reseed.

Take an acre for example, how long and how many pigs would it take to wreck it to the point the grass and thatch would be churned up. Could move them then to the next plot in the plan.

Just thinking out loud. I know they are difficult to fence in from other threads.

No idea but a long term plan of mine in wood, it's their natural environment.

If you do id nearly drive to west for bacon, some pigs blood and a lamb!

monkeynuz

They can short out electric fences, however, if you keep the strands slightly higher than normal then you should be ok, we used to use it in conjunction with a bit of stock fence behind the elctric.

They are great animals, very clever and full of character, we used to have one little pig that would stay in the field after all the others had escaped into the neighbouring jerusalem artichokes and start making a noise when she saw us as if to say they have all escaped but I have been good and stayed!

Not sure about rough rocky ground for them though, they aren't built as climbers but will turn ground over.

If you have a water course or watery area on the land you intend keeping them then don't forget to fence across the water, they are great swimmers! God to allow them access to the water though but just don't allow them an escape route!

ford2600

As an aside, pigs are regarded as dirty animals.

In their natural environment, they don't lie in their own sh1te, only in confined spaces. Rolling in muck is how they protect themselves from the sun.

Jewish & Muslim faiths won't eat pig for being "dirty". In all likelihood the real reason for this cultural/historic avoidance is the same as why firemen to a large degree avoid roast pork.

monkeynuz

very true about them being clean, i.e not rolling in their own poo, and they regularly keep their bedding clean by moving it aroud and getting any smelly bits out of the way.

However, someone told me an interesting thing once, they won't eat "the flesh of the pig" because "it doesn't sweat so is therefore dirty" might be something in it, I don't really care though lol

Base price

Tamworths would be ideal for your purpose as they are naturaly more agile than most pigs as they are one of the only breeds that do not have Asian pig bloodlines.
They are also very hardy and our only native breed http://www.tamworthbreedersclub.co.uk/

It would take two adult pigs a few months to clear an acre of scrub. You could get 4 weaners and they would do the same job. In my experience most traditional breeds lay on fat much quicker than the commercial breeds like Large White and Landrace and therefore need to be slaughterd at lighter weights.

moy83

A mate of mine has tamworths out in rushes with and old trailer for them sleep in . He has one strand of mains wire and when he takes it down he has a job to get them to cross where it was !
They root it up fairly well but you would want to keep them in small areas for them to give it all a good going over .

Farmer Pudsey

Con is there much soil under the grass. The reason I ask is that a small disc harrow may be you answer. Have you any tractor. A small 50ish HP tractor would be ideal unless land is very steep. When reseeding land that gets very heavy It can be a time consuming job. You have to have the right conditions. I would not be inclined to wait for the end of the year. This type of land gets too cold too fast. Grass need to be well established before winter on it as the roots will spend most of the winter water logged.

Another choice might be to buy or borrow a small track machine to turn it over. Pigs will be too slow IMO unless you can handle 8-10 all year around. TBH I thinks quads and Chain harrows are a waste of time. You need a tractor to pull a decent size one. You will also need to roll seed bed. If you can disc it even thought it will not be great but it will allow you to till with a chain harrow.

The one thing that will surprise you about this type of land is that if you reseed in the summer how fast grass will establish.

Somthing like this
http://www.donedeal.ie/harrows-for-sale/mf-8ft-disc-harrow/6910737

monkeynuz

Base price wrote: »

Tamworths would be ideal for your purpose as they are naturaly more agile than most pigs as they are one of the only breeds that do not have Asian pig bloodlines.
They are also very hardy and our only native breed http://www.tamworthbreedersclub.co.uk/

It would take two adult pigs a few months to clear an acre of scrub. You could get 4 weaners and they would do the same job. In my experience most traditional breeds lay on fat much quicker than the commercial breeds like Large White and Landrace and therefore need to be slaughterd at lighter weights.

Used to be the rule of thumb that you wouldn't kill a pig until it had at least 2 inches of fat on it's back

saltandpepper10

Absolute classic post best ive seen in a while describes my thoughts perfectly

Conmaicne Mara

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Con is there much soil under the grass. The reason I ask is that a small disc harrow may be you answer. Have you any tractor. A small 50ish HP tractor would be ideal unless land is very steep. When reseeding land that gets very heavy It can be a time consuming job. You have to have the right conditions. I would not be inclined to wait for the end of the year. This type of land gets too cold too fast. Grass need to be well established before winter on it as the roots will spend most of the winter water logged.

Another choice might be to buy or borrow a small track machine to turn it over. Pigs will be too slow IMO unless you can handle 8-10 all year around. TBH I thinks quads and Chain harrows are a waste of time. You need a tractor to pull a decent size one. You will also need to roll seed bed. If you can disc it even thought it will not be great but it will allow you to till with a chain harrow.

The one thing that will surprise you about this type of land is that if you reseed in the summer how fast grass will establish.

Somthing like this
http://www.donedeal.ie/harrows-for-sale/mf-8ft-disc-harrow/6910737

There's no consistency to soil depth in my area. You can go from bottomless bog to bedrock protruding through the surface. My issue with a tractor is as well as avoiding those two obstacles there are boulders, stone walls (all over the shop), "moots" (spoil from back to back drains), and the land itself is steep in places and there's no fair play - as in if you're on a hill it's not a flat surfaces slope? There'd be a lot of minor bumps and hollows. It can be fairly crazy stuff.

The idea with the quad &harrow is it's smaller and more maneuverable than a tractor, while being less hardship than a two wheel tractor with a rotovator attachment - though it might come to that yet! Also, and importantly, I've seen that mf35 stuck in a few places, in the smallest bits of difficulty. A 4wd tractor wouldn't have that problem but then I don't have a 4wd tractor so...... :pac: I haven't tried it yet so it might be a waste of time but if other methods aren't suitable what do ya do, have to start trying something sometime or just put up with the old grass.

I can get a roller for behind the quad, not so worried about that tbh.

The other idea was a small rotavator for behind the tractor, but again we're back to the trafficability issues and also the mixing of rock and rotavator.

Not sure about disc harrow, would you not have to have a bit of fair play to get up a little speed for them to work, with the tiny field layouts that wouldn't be possible in the most part.

Farmer Pudsey

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

There's no consistency to soil depth in my area. You can go from bottomless bog to bedrock protruding through the surface. My issue with a tractor is as well as avoiding those two obstacles there are boulders, stone walls (all over the shop), "moots" (spoil from back to back drains), and the land itself is steep in places and there's no fair play - as in if you're on a hill it's not a flat surfaces slope? There'd be a lot of minor bumps and hollows. It can be fairly crazy stuff.

The idea with the quad &harrow is it's smaller and more maneuverable than a tractor, while being less hardship than a two wheel tractor with a rotovator attachment - though it might come to that yet! Also, and importantly, I've seen that mf35 stuck in a few places, in the smallest bits of difficulty. A 4wd tractor wouldn't have that problem but then I don't have a 4wd tractor so...... :pac: I haven't tried it yet so it might be a waste of time but if other methods aren't suitable what do ya do, have to start trying something sometime or just put up with the old grass.

I can get a roller for behind the quad, not so worried about that tbh.

The other idea was a small rotavator for behind the tractor, but again we're back to the trafficability issues and also the mixing of rock and rotavator.

Not sure about disc harrow, would you not have to have a bit of fair play to get up a little speed for them to work, with the tiny field layouts that wouldn't be possible in the most part.

The reason I suggested the disc harrow is that it will cut into the ground 1''-2''. After 2-3 runs slightly offset it will allow you to knock up a soil tilt with a chain harrow. Maybe a small tractor with double wheels at the back yes ideally to till with a disc harrow you need speed however if you can cut it for the chain harrow to work speed is not essential with the disc. . I think your quad is too small if that is the only size chain harrow it will pull. Some of the bigger quads would pull an 2 metre chain harrow. THe other thing is to have a look around locally for a triple k harrow or anything that might break the top of the ground for the chain harrow.



If the fields are small I be spraying off one that is 1-2 acres and getting going.

Conmaicne Mara

Seems pigs will take too long judging by the answers here and elsewhere so will leave them in the fridge until the really impossible places

Attached some photos of the area I intend to reseed. Obviously it's from early in the year was identifying areas needing open drains. Gives an indication of the problem though.

Conmaicne Mara

Some photos taken today of the "better" quality land, but trafficability issues just as problematic.

Greener, better weather, less surface water, going to look a lot better than the last set!

The slopes look a lot more gentle in the photos than in real life.

Base price

Pigs will make pure dung of those walls if they get near them as they love to scratch :rolleyes:

Conmaicne Mara

Base price wrote: »

Pigs will make pure dung of those walls if they get near them as they love to scratch :rolleyes:

Figured as much because any animal in the place already has, would have electric fence between pigs & walls

eire23

Would it be possible in some of the fields to get a machine in to lift rocks or level out some of the moots into some hollows to make it more workable for a tractor?

Conmaicne Mara

eire23 wrote: »

Would it be possible in some of the fields to get a machine in to lift rocks or level out some of the moots into some hollows to make it more workable for a tractor?

That's not within my budget at the moment But it's something on my mind for the future yes.

Base price

Looking at the photos and just wondering, what type of grass seed would you use to reseed. I am only asking as I presume that the grass that is growing there is regional specific and has survived/thrived in the unique conditions.

Genghis Cant

Base price wrote: »

Looking at the photos and just wondering, what type of grass seed would you use to reseed. I am only asking as I presume that the grass that is growing there is regional specific and has survived/thrived in the unique conditions.

A quick call to NASA should answer that for you

Conmaicne Mara

Base price wrote: »

Looking at the photos and just wondering, what type of grass seed would you use to reseed. I am only asking as I presume that the grass that is growing there is regional specific and has survived/thrived in the unique conditions.

I have bought Glenveigh, Soriento, Piccadilly, Timothy, and some Crusader white clover.

cristeoir

This may be a stupid idea for your ground but if you were able to fence a few acres at a time and out winter some light weanlings on it would they not cut it up enough so that a few runs of the harrow would give you a good seed bed. I'd say its not easy land to farm CM , fair play to you - you are definitely a good tryer!

Farmer Pudsey

Con you are fighting against nature, a small track machine maybe, not sure about the weanling idea as you need to put condition on them as well. Maybe a few AA however no GLAS or Reps in that idea. Really a track small machine (6-8Ton) if you can come across handy.

_Brian

Con we keep a few pigs and I'm not sure it will work for you.
If you had two weaners on half acre I think it would take them maybe three or four months to root it over.
They, while fence trained will root the clay up to the fence and short it.

From a handiness angle you might get someone who keeps pigs out who might be willing to stock a few pigs in it.
Then they would be responsible for fencing. For your acre if you could get 8-10 mid sized (40kg) weaners in then two months would do a lot.

micraX

Well I for one wouldn't depend on a pig to prepare ground for parsnips and the likes..

moy83

micraX wrote: »

Well I for one wouldn't depend on a pig to prepare ground for parsnips and the likes..

Maybe not parsnips but lads would have grown rhubarb on land like that for the market years ago

_Brian

micraX wrote: »

Well I for one wouldn't depend on a pig to prepare ground for parsnips and the likes..

I'm fairly sure Con just wants to reseed grass...

micraX

_Brian wrote: »

I'm fairly sure Con just wants to reseed grass...

well i was just saying pigs might not be a good rotavator

Farmer Pudsey

micraX wrote: »

well i was just saying pigs might not be a good rotavator

With grass you do not need a deep seed bed. As long as grass seed has contact with soil it will root in when germinated. When grass seed is deeper than 1/4'' you start to have seed loss at germination. I think it is as high as 20% at 1''( not 100% sure). The reason some farmers plough, power garrow etc is to get rid of trash etc. However it is not totally necessary and nowadys there are other methods/supply's that allow mintill grass establishment.

In Con's case he is looking for a min till method to establish new grass on old rough pasture. TBH he is fighting against nature, the most effective would be a track machine however he is looking for other options to allow hime to prepare a mintill seedbed. Pigs or fencing in cattle to break up ground are idea's however each have there disadvantages time being one of the criteria. However in this sort of ground ever option is worth consideration. If he had time on his side and use pigs to roughen it 1-2 acre at the time and he had a market for the pork/bacon it might well be an option.