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Woman uploads abortion video - goes viral

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Comments

  • #542
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,013 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Boombastic wrote: »
    no, no no, then no

    If I force any woman to have my child, it's a bit rapey.

    I agree, that it's nasty that men don't have any say in the matter. after all it takes two people to conceive but realisticly the options are very limited.

    say I was for carrying the baby to term and she wasn't. Could I then legally force her to carry the pregnancy to term? Would I be allowed to have her imprisoned or restrained to prevent her? Tie her to a bed for the duration and then at 9 months, sedate here and perform a caesarian....?

    See, when it's put that way, that's a bit rapey.

    I know you haven't stated any of that, I'm not putting words in your mouth, but you can see why it becomes confusing and really dodgy. Forcing a woman to have a baby is very, very dodgy.

    You don't even need to argue whether or not the father has any say in whether or not a woman can have an abortion until you agree that a woman can have an abortion.


  • #543
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,013 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    How about either side agree not to use the word parasite or parasitic? All it does is bring emotion to the thread.

    ok. can we include nazi's, facists and anti life as well?


  • #544
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Grayson wrote: »
    ok. can we include nazi's, facists and anti life as well?

    Yea of course.


  • #545
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Grayson wrote: »
    If I force any woman to have my child, it's a bit rapey.

    What's killing a child ? More or less than a bit rapey ?


  • #546
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    ryan101 wrote: »
    What's killing a child ? More or less than a bit rapey ?

    Killing a child is infanticide. That's not what you mean though, is it? Having an abortion is not killing a child.


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  • #547
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Grayson wrote: »
    If I force any woman to have my child, it's a bit rapey.
    Muise... wrote: »
    Killing a child is infanticide. That's not what you mean though, is it? Having an abortion is not killing a child.

    Sorry I forget, it's terminating a parasite. Makes it easier to kill it.


  • #548
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Sorry I forget, it's terminating a parasite. Makes it easier to kill it.

    it's a bit murdery...


  • #549
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Sorry I forget, it's terminating a parasite. Makes it easier to kill it.

    Whatever makes it easier for each woman who finds herself needing an abortion is ok by me - it's not an easy thing to have to do.


  • #550
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Sorry I forget, it's terminating a parasite. Makes it easier to kill it.

    I don't think I've seen you ever mention the woman, you know, the person who has to do all the work. At what point does the woman matter to you?


  • #551
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Boombastic wrote: »
    it's a bit murdery...
    While I'm not normally one to comment on changing words for emotional effect when they are exactly the same thing really, if the foetus is having a detrimental overall impact on your life and it is not yet of age to be considered any sort of individual human, I'm happy with parasite, yes.


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  • #552
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Muise... wrote: »
    Killing a child is infanticide. That's not what you mean though, is it? Having an abortion is not killing a child.

    Its a matter of opinion really, hence the whole debate surrounding it and the "sides" people pick, and the resulting pages on here arguing about terminology and biological definitions.

    A pregnancy more often than not results in a child, ending the pregnancy puts a stop to that and so in some peoples view it is killing a child. Whether you feel thats too simplistic or airy fairy is your decision but some people do view it as killing a child and that's not "crazy pro life English " as someone refereed to it as previously, its just how they view it. Its no less of an opinion/view on the topic as yours is.


  • #553
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I don't think I've seen you ever mention the woman, you know, the person who has to do all the work. At what point does the woman matter to you?

    They both have an equal right to life, no one has a superior right to life, at what point does the child matter to you ?


  • #554
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I don't think I've seen you ever mention the woman, you know, the person who has to do all the work. At what point does the woman matter to you?

    40 weeks, I think, when she has done her duty and knows her place.


  • #555
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    The amateur zoologists who labeled the baby a parasite have given the anti abortion side the highest weapon they ever had.


  • #556
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The amateur zoologists who labeled the baby a parasite have given the anti abortion side the highest weapon they ever had.

    I thought we agreed no more parasite talk? And no baby talk? Shure why not throw in killing and call in a hat trick?


  • #557
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    ryan101 wrote: »
    They both have an equal right to life, no one has a superior right to life, at what point does the child matter to you ?
    When it's really a child would be a good starting point.


  • #558
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The amateur zoologists who labeled the baby a parasite have given the anti abortion side the highest weapon they ever had.
    No more than the pro-lifers calling a few cells a child TBH.


  • #559
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The amateur zoologists who labeled the baby a parasite have given the anti abortion side the highest weapon they ever had.

    Not really, its no more offensive than the word foetus or baby unless you choose for it to be. Id have had no problem referring to my own baby as parasitic/alien like, all sorts tbh, when it was making me sick 24/7, making me lose weight, draining my energy etc. Makes her no less of a beautiful baby though, just a word to describe the relationship between the baby and the mother when its physically draining everything from her during the pregnancy.


  • #560
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,013 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Yea of course.

    Well the ban on parasite lasted all of 3 minutes before everyone jumped back in feet first :)


  • #561
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Tasden wrote: »
    A pregnancy more often than not results in a child, ending the pregnancy puts a stop to that and so in some peoples view it is killing a child.
    Not true.
    Half of conceptions spontaneously abort.


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  • #562
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Not true.
    Half of conceptions spontaneously abort.

    Ok- alot of the time pregnancy leads to a child.


  • #563
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    When it's really a child would be a good starting point.

    When's that ?


  • #564
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    ryan101 wrote: »
    They both have an equal right to life, no one has a superior right to life, at what point does the child matter to you ?


    By saying that an unborn foetus has as much right to live as the woman who is supporting it, you are immediately asserting that the unborn foetus' right to live supercedes the quality of life of the woman who is already born.

    Effectively what you are saying is that the unborn foetus has more rights than the woman whom you are forcing to give birth against her wishes, because you are taking away her right to decide whether she wants to give birth, and you are telling her that she must give up her control over her own body so that the foetus will be born, at which point she will THEN become a mother, not before she gives birth; and the same goes for a man - he is not a father before a woman who is pregnant gives birth, he is only a father WHEN a woman gives birth.

    Therefore in order to argue the rights of the father, a man has to become a father in the first place. Before that, he has no right either to demand that a woman give birth and become a mother against her will.


  • #565
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Tasden wrote: »
    Ok- alot of the time pregnancy leads to a child.
    Yes, but it's important for all the beardy ghost adherents to understand that even the man himself has decreed every second one of his holy blessed embryos bite the dust anyway.


  • #566
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    More women have an abortion then have their tonsils out, people can wax on and on about why they shouldn't but women are still choosing to have abortions and will continue to do so. Make it illegal or forcing women to travel doesn't stop them having abortions.

    It is one of the most common surgical procedures for women, why shouldn't a woman who is pro choice and sick of all the scaremongering, browbeating choose to try and combat that?

    Her film came joint first in the awards for breaking abortion stigma it was entered in, anyone know the other one ?

    It was created by the IFPA featuring women who have had abortions and who are abortion rights activists.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4SSHkgD73E


  • #567
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Yes, but it's important for all the beardy ghost adherents to understand that even the man himself has decreed every second one of his holy blessed embryos bite the dust anyway.

    Ok.....

    I'm not sure what point you're making?

    If a woman falls pregnant then there's a chance of it resulting in a baby, otherwise she wouldn't require an abortion in the first place


  • #568
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Yes, but it's important for all the beardy ghost adherents to understand that even the man himself has decreed every second one of his holy blessed embryos bite the dust anyway.

    That's the problem with assuming that pro-life people are religious, and pro-choice people aren't, you form pre-conceived notions that are plain and simple just wrong. In your case, all the more embarrassing when you can't discuss the issue in a mature fashion that is respectful to people, regardless whether you agree or disagree with them.


  • #569
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Therefore in order to argue the rights of the father, a man has to become a father in the first place. Before that, he has no right either to demand that a woman give birth and become a mother against her will.

    Action at a distance is something I'm fairly uncomfortable with. The idea that fatherhood is something that happens disjoint to any action on his part and with no consent to it. It seems like an artificial idea that only exists to support abortion rights.


  • #570
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Morag wrote: »
    More women have an abortion then have their tonsils out, people can wax on and on about why they shouldn't but women are still choosing to have abortions and will continue to do so. Make it illegal or forcing women to travel doesn't stop them having abortions.

    More killing doesn't make it more right.
    Laws don't stop people from killing others either.
    If someone wants to kill they will find a way to kill.


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  • #571
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    ryan101 wrote: »
    More killing doesn't make it more right.
    Laws don't stop people from killing others either.
    If someone wants to kill they will find a way to kill.

    I reject your premise.

    I ended a pregnancy I didn't kill anyone.


This discussion has been closed.
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