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Woman uploads abortion video - goes viral

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Comments

  • #152
    Splendour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    Muise... wrote: »
    3. and 4. are the naive ones.

    How so?


  • #153
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Would you agree that a woman should not expect a man to financially support a decision that she alone has made regarding her own body?


    A man who makes the choice to have sex also runs the same risk as a woman in terms of that resulting in a pregnancy.

    His choice is made at the time of conception. It might not seem fair but biology being what it is, that is when his decision is made.

    A womans decision is made a little later and at that point it is hers to make as it is her who has to either have the abortion or give birth. Until such a time as a foetus can be transferred to a man or incubated externally, then we need to be teaching our young men that their choices are made at the time of sexual intercourse and therefore they need to be careful about who they sleep with and the way they use contraception.

    You may argue that it's unfair that a man cannot choose after intercourse but it's no less fair than a woman having to be the one to bear a child. It is what it is, it won't change because women will always have autonomy over their bodies (and rightly so!).
    Men have autonomy over their bodies also and they can choose to protect themselves against an unwanted pregnancy at the time of conception.


  • #154
    daithi84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 197 ✭✭daithi84


    I haven't got a chance to view the video (i'm in work) but going by the topic of conversation i would have to say i agree that there should be more education around abortion in terms of the procedure and stuff so women aren't kept in the dark and know what's involved if they ever want one. I do feel that saying how great it is that you can carry a child and then give such a blasé attitude to getting an abortion is wrong. This kind of attitude doesn't reflect the feelings of the majority of women getting an abortion. I am pro-choice but am against abortion being used as a form of contraception. I know a few women who have had one and it was very emotional stressful for them. As a man i feel that my opinion shouldn't matter, if that woman wants to have an abortion i have no right to say otherwise, her body her choice. The only thing that sits uncomfortably with me is the attitude. I will watch video in full when i get home.


  • #155
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    daithi84 wrote: »
    I haven't got a chance to view the video (i'm in work) but going by the topic of conversation i would have to say i agree that there should be more education around abortion in terms of the procedure and stuff so women aren't kept in the dark and know what's involved if they ever want one. I do feel that saying how great it is that you can carry a child and then give such a blasé attitude to getting an abortion is wrong. This kind of attitude doesn't reflect the feelings of the majority of women getting an abortion. I am pro-choice but am against abortion being used as a form of contraception. I know a few women who have had one and it was very emotional stressful for them. As a man i feel that my opinion shouldn't matter, if that woman wants to have an abortion i have no right to say otherwise, her body her choice. The only thing that sits uncomfortably with me is the attitude. I will watch video in full when i get home.

    You'd be unlikely to find a woman who is struggling with her decision making a video in the first place though, women will barely talk about it even online for fear of being found out so its a but much to expect them to document it. The few women who do go public get dogs abuse, a vulnerable woman would be mad to put herself at the mercy of that kind of carry on.


  • #156
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    seenitall wrote: »
    A parasite is not an independant living entity. Why should a parasite without the ability for independent life away from the host, have an automatic entitlement to living off the host's resources? (Do you enjoy nurturing headlice on your head, or tapeworm in your bowels? Or would you seek to get rid of them sharpish?)

    It shouldn't automatically have that entitlement, which is what most of civilised, first world understands and respects, and which is why abortion should be legal.

    Again, babies in incubators are not parasites...

    Lol a baby living in a incubator is very much a parasite by that definition.


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  • #157
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Splendour wrote: »
    How so?

    You think a woman who does not want to have a baby is going to go through an entire pregnancy and hand the baby over to the father/adoptive couple on your suggestion? Some do, but most don't.


  • #158
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,522 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    ash23 wrote: »
    A man who makes the choice to have sex also runs the same risk as a woman in terms of that resulting in a pregnancy.

    His choice is made at the time of conception. It might not seem fair but biology being what it is, that is when his decision is made.

    A womans decision is made a little later and at that point it is hers to make as it is her who has to either have the abortion or give birth. Until such a time as a foetus can be transferred to a man or incubated externally, then we need to be teaching our young men that their choices are made at the time of sexual intercourse and therefore they need to be careful about who they sleep with and the way they use contraception.

    You may argue that it's unfair that a man cannot choose after intercourse but it's no less fair than a woman having to be the one to bear a child. It is what it is, it won't change because women will always have autonomy over their bodies (and rightly so!).
    Men have autonomy over their bodies also and they can choose to protect themselves against an unwanted pregnancy at the time of conception.

    Absolutely 100% no to this. Both the man and woman have equal responsibility when making the choice to have sex. The woman's decision is not made later, it is made there and then. Both are consenting adults and should be in full control of the decision making process. It is not not solely the mans responsibility and stating such is ridiculous. Are woman too thick to take responsibility for themselves or something?

    I can and will argue that is is completely unfair that the man has absolutely no rights to choose what happens in the case of a pregnancy. If a woman decides to have the child against the wishes of the father then the father should not be liable for support.


  • #159
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Splendour wrote: »
    How so?

    Because women have abortions because they don't want to be pregnant, it makes no sense to have a baby if you don't want to be pregnant in the first place. Besides which it is not the responsibility of women to provide babies for childless couples.


  • #160
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ash23 wrote: »
    A man who makes the choice to have sex also runs the same risk as a woman in terms of that resulting in a pregnancy.

    His choice is made at the time of conception. It might not seem fair but biology being what it is, that is when his decision is made.

    A womans decision is made a little later and at that point it is hers to make as it is her who has to either have the abortion or give birth. Until such a time as a foetus can be transferred to a man or incubated externally, then we need to be teaching our young men that their choices are made at the time of sexual intercourse and therefore they need to be careful about who they sleep with and the way they use contraception.

    You may argue that it's unfair that a man cannot choose after intercourse but it's no less fair than a woman having to be the one to bear a child. It is what it is, it won't change because women will always have autonomy over their bodies (and rightly so!).
    Men have autonomy over their bodies also and they can choose to protect themselves against an unwanted pregnancy at the time of conception.

    I respectfully disagree.


  • #161
    Splendour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    Muise... wrote: »
    You think a woman who does not want to have a baby is going to go through an entire pregnancy and hand the baby over to the father/adoptive couple on your suggestion? Some do, but most don't.




    And that brings us to suggestion no. 5 (actually, I'd have this as no. 1)

    Go through with pregnancy and when the baby is born you will more than likely fall madly in love and want to keep him/her.


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  • #162
    daithi84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 197 ✭✭daithi84


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Lol a baby living in a incubator is very much a parasite by that definition.

    Thats a very poor argument. Then you could argue anyone receiving life sustaining treatment from any machine is a parasite. By definition a feotus is a parasite in the biological sense as it can't survive with the resources of its host. It is a un-nerving description but biologically correct.


  • #163
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Splendour wrote: »
    And that brings us to suggestion no. 5 (actually, I'd have this as no. 1)

    Go through with pregnancy and when the baby is born you will more than likely fall madly in love and want to keep him/her.

    I disagree with that. That seems crazy logic imo.


  • #164
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Because women have abortions because they don't want to be pregnant, it makes no sense to have a baby if you don't want to be pregnant in the first place. Besides which it is not the responsibility of women to provide babies for childless couples.

    No it's not but can you see how people trying for a child would be upset at the whimsical nature of the woman's video? "Oh no I'm pregnant I'll terminate it".


  • #165
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Splendour wrote: »
    And that brings us to suggestion no. 5 (actually, I'd have this as no. 1)

    Go through with pregnancy and when the baby is born you will more than likely fall madly in love and want to keep him/her.

    Aw yeah, and kittens and rainbows and lollipops, of course that's what we should do. My love is not yours to predict and advise.


  • #166
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Mr.S wrote: »
    I think she said it perfectly herself, "there is such thing as a positive abortion story".

    She's not glamourising it, she's just stating the facts that she's not ready for children, she was unlucky to get pregnant and now she's terminating said pregnancy, legally.

    Would it have been ok if she was in tears telling the story?

    how was she unlucky?

    she had sex with multiple partners without using contraception, nothing unlucky about it


  • #167
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    No it's not but can you see how people trying for a child would be upset at the whimsical nature of the woman's video? "Oh no I'm pregnant I'll terminate it".

    Yes I can but we all have to live our own lives, we can't make important choices like that based on what other people might think.


  • #168
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    daithi84 wrote: »
    Thats a very poor argument. Then you could argue anyone receiving life sustaining treatment from any machine is a parasite. By definition a feotus is a parasite in the biological sense as it can't survive with the resources of its host. It is a un-nerving description but biologically correct.

    Babies in incubators cannot survive without the resources its host (in this case a machine) provides. You talk about biology yet you don't realise that biological speaking foetuses and parasites are separate entities.


  • #169
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Yes I can but we all have to live our own lives, we can't make important choices like that based on what other people might think.

    I agree, but making a video for promotional/advertising sake is tasteless to the extreme im sure you agree.


  • #170
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Splendour wrote: »
    And that brings us to suggestion no. 5 (actually, I'd have this as no. 1)

    Go through with pregnancy and when the baby is born you will more than likely fall madly in love and want to keep him/her.

    I wonder if that would happy as easily as you seem to think when the nine months leading up to the birth will have been enforced on the woman. It can be hard to bond with a baby even if you wanted it so just imagine if you have been forced to remain pregnant despite wanting an abortion, all that anger and resentment building, do you really think every woman will just fall in love with her child?


  • #171
    padd b1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,867 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    eviltwin wrote: »
    . Besides which it is not the responsibility of women to provide babies for childless couples.

    Who's making that argument on this thread?


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  • #172
    diveout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 746 ✭✭✭diveout


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You'd be unlikely to find a woman who is struggling with her decision making a video in the first place though, women will barely talk about it even online for fear of being found out so its a but much to expect them to document it. The few women who do go public get dogs abuse, a vulnerable woman would be mad to put herself at the mercy of that kind of carry on.

    This is not necessarily the case in open societies.

    I got to hear the details of a young woman's abortion while I was waiting for a bus at a bus stop[this was not in Ireland]... seriously, six needles into her vagina... blah blah blah.. speaking really loudly on her phone, it doesn't have a stigma elsewhere because the "it's a very simple procedure" advertising worked.


  • #173
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I agree, but making a video for promotional/advertising sake is tasteless to the extreme im sure you agree.

    Yeah I agreed with that earlier in the thread, I'm all for more openness but this wasn't the way to do it imo.


  • #174
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Yes I can but we all have to live our own lives, we can't make important choices like that based on what other people might think.

    Well fair enough but based on that I think she's inhumane tbh.


  • #175
    Splendour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Because women have abortions because they don't want to be pregnant, it makes no sense to have a baby if you don't want to be pregnant in the first place. Besides which it is not the responsibility of women to provide babies for childless couples.

    Plenty of people try drugs and end up becoming addicts although they didn't mean to become addicted. Who's responsible for them becoming addicted? They are, so therefore are responsible for the outcome.

    You're right, it isn't the responsibility of women to provide babies for childless couples (though this is being done through surrogacy) but if a women becomes pregnant is it not better to have a positive outcome instead of a negative one?


  • #176
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Because women have abortions because they don't want to be pregnant, it makes no sense to have a baby if you don't want to be pregnant in the first place. Besides which it is not the responsibility of women to provide babies for childless couples.
    some women also have abortions because they think it makes better financial sense than being proactive and getting sterilized, due to myths being spouted about sterilisation
    would you agree?


  • #177
    blacklilly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    Boombastic wrote: »
    reading that article and the bit I quoted, I gather this woman purposely didn't use contraception in order to get pregnant, so she could experience an abortion.

    I haven't watched the clip and have no intention of watching it.

    Did anyone else gather that she didin't use contraception in order to become pregnant with the absolute intention to have an abortion?

    If this is the case, this is sick.

    I am pro-life (as I'm sure most of you know) but I would imagine that if this is the case this story does not sit well with the majority of pro-choice supporters either.
    To be so passé about something of this magnitude actually stuns me and as naive as this may sound, I honestly never thought I would hear of someone delibertly becomming pregnant in order to experience having an abortion.


    Apologies if this particular issue has been discussed already.


  • #178
    upstairs for coffee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭upstairs for coffee


    Have we considered the possibility that this is a con by pro-lifers...


  • #179
    seenitall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,736 ✭✭✭seenitall


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    You're right that much of the western world allows for abortion, to a greater or lesser extent. But almost all of the people who support that would have far more class than to compare a foetus to a headlice or tapeworm. Way, way more class.

    LOL. And any rational person should have "way, way more class" than to deny other people the self-determination of getting rid of parasites.


  • #180
    Ihatecuddles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭Ihatecuddles


    I find it really hard to be pro choice. I just can't seem to be ok with it. I am trying, genuinely.

    It just seems unfair, this baby doesn't get to live because she was stupid enough to not use contraception and to sleep with different men. Its pretty clear what the outcome to that will be.

    I don't like that you can make a baby through your own actions/stupidity and then decide to kill it because you don't want to be pregnant?

    It just doesn't seem ok. I truly wish I could be pro choice and respect the womans right to make decisions about her body, but I just feel that if your carelessness caused this life, then tough :(

    I probably shouldn't admit this here, I never have before. I do want to change my mind though, I'm not looking to argue or anything.


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  • #181
    Splendour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I wonder if that would happy as easily as you seem to think when the nine months leading up to the birth will have been enforced on the woman. It can be hard to bond with a baby even if you wanted it so just imagine if you have been forced to remain pregnant despite wanting an abortion, all that anger and resentment building, do you really think every woman will just fall in love with her child?

    I think most of them will, yes. I am not talking about enforcing anything. I just think it is too easy in a lot of countries to abort without thinking through the other alternatives.


This discussion has been closed.
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