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The Origin of Specious Nonsense. Twelve years on. Still going. Answer soon.

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Comments

  • #1262
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    J C wrote: »
    OK ... so what is the 'logical and reasonable' explanation for a craft that is closely observed manouvering, hovering, landing and taking off at speeds that would result in several thousand g-force for any occupants therein?

    Have you ever looked directly into the sun, or other bright light? The afterimage perfectly replicates for me the phenomenon you describe. And this is one of the myriad of explanations that are far more reasonable and logical than "I see flying saucers, get me out of here!" line the alien abductee community blathers on about.
    What is the 'logical and reasonable' explanation' for closely observed beings that are apparently able to physically manifest at will?
    Here's three:
    1) Eat the same breed of mushrooms as the author of Revelation did, or many of the medieval christian mystics. That will work.
    2) Be extremely susceptical to cultural memes (e.g. the almost ubiquitous little grey men in sci-fi films and games) and hallucinate brought on by any number of factors, or even just fall asleep and dream, for example when I worked in Tesco I had regular dreams about working in Tesco, brought on by long hours and unusual sleep patterns.
    3) The person reporting said phenomenon is lying to gain attention, power or wealth. This is fantastically common.

    I'll quote from Science of Discorld (Pratchett, Stewart & Cohen,p.290 Ebury Press paperback edition 1999) just to show how bad the UFO community is at evidence:
    The first thing to say is that without a doubt many of these experiences are false. Ian once did a radio broadcast which included a woman who had undergone a convincing experience of being abducted - except that she knew she hadn't really been, because her family told her she'd been asleep beside the fire the whole time. Jack once met a woman who claimed that the aliens abducted her and took away her baby. So he asked a question that nobody elase thought to ask, the women included: "Were you pregnant?"
    "No"
    The point is that to the victims, the experience felt real. Even though logic told them it couldn't have happened, they either didn't apply the logic, or they did but still remembered the experience vividly. We deduce that the human mind has vivid memories that do not correspond to real events. Of course we must also observe that just because some alien abductions aren't real, that doesn't imply that all aren't. However, if we can find a sensible mechanism for othewrwise reasonable people believing that they really were carted off in a UFO, then the burden of proof shifts dramatically and evidence of abduction stronger than sincere expressions of belief becomes necessary.

    And then they go on to detail both medieval hallucinations and the phenomenon of sleep paralysis, showing two such reasonable, plausible and common explanations. Therefore the shoe is now on the other foot, and as the saying goes "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proofs".
    An optical illusion is clearly the 'logical and reasonable' explanation for what you describe ... but everything we observe isn't an optical illusion ... or as easily discounted.

    And as stated in the bolded part of the above quote it is up to you and your fellow UFOlogists to come up with some evidence for your claims.


  • #1263
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    8m2t4.jpg


  • #1264
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Thank you guys for your considered opinions.

    I have no particular desire to discuss this topic. Most of it is classified - and it therefore largely can't be discussed on the Boards anyway.

    I was just answering what appears to be genuine questions from some posters, in so far as I can.

    Now, lets get back to evaluating the belief that the yottabytes of complex functional specified genetic information found in living organisms was the result of an enormous cosmic accident ... combined with the selection of the mostly devastating mistakes that mutagenesis is observed to produce.:)


  • #1265
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    J C wrote: »
    Thank you guys for your considered opinions.

    I have no particular desire to discuss this topic. Most of it is classified anyway - and therefore shouldn't be discussed on the Boards for legal reasons.

    I was just answering what appears to be genuine questions from some posters, in so far as I can.

    Now, lets get back to evaluating the belief that the yottabytes of complex functional specified genetic information found in living organisms was the result of an enormous cosmic accident ... combined with the selection of the mostly devastating mistakes that mutagenesis is observed to produce.:)

    And on that bombshell JC finally admits what we have all always suspected. Well played JC well played ;)


  • #1266
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    J C wrote: »
    Most of it is classified anyway...
    Ye gods, it gets better.
    Now, lets get back to evaluating the belief that the yottabytes of complex functional specified genetic information found in living organisms was the result of an enormous cosmic accident ...

    I'm afraid you'll have to evaluate that belief by yourself, because - as has been pointed out to you a yotta times already - it's a creationist invention (along with CFSI, or whatever your makey-uppy term is).


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  • #1267
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    and as the saying goes "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proofs".
    You first, Brian ... because you really can't get anything more extraordinary than the Evolutionist claim that 'goo evolved into you via the zoo' using nothing but time and selected mistakes.:)

    ... and just in case somebody starts quibbling over whether living organisms contain yottabytes of genetic information here is how wikipedia describes the storage capacities required for 1 yottabyte:-
    Quote:-
    "To store a yottabyte on terabyte-size hard drives would require one million city block size data-centers, as big as the states of Delaware and Rhode Island.

    If 64 GB microSDXC cards (the most compact data storage medium available to the public as of early 2013) were used instead, the total volume would be approximately 2500000 cubic meters, or the volume of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

    Alternatively, using recently demonstrated DNA as storage media, one yottabyte would require a volume between 0.003 and 1 cubic meter, depending on number of redundant backup copies desired. "

    Just shows the power of God to invent compact mobile data storage ... versus our (relatively) puny Human efforts to date!!!:D

    Be still and know that God is great ... and loves you.


  • #1268
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Ye gods, it gets better.
    It really does get much better ... when you get to know Him.:)


  • #1269
    Bellatori
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 276 ✭✭Bellatori


    J C wrote: »
    Be still and know that God is great ... and loves you.

    What is charming and cute in a small child is certainly a cause for concern in an adult. Most children come to understand quite quickly that the voices that they associate with their invisible friend is in fact simply their imagination.

    The Real Reasons Kid Create Imaginary Friends


  • #1270
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Bellatori wrote: »
    What is charming and cute in a small child is certainly a cause for concern in an adult. Most children come to understand quite quickly that the voices that they associate with their invisible friend is in fact simply their imagination.

    The Real Reasons Kid Create Imaginary Friends
    A healthy imagination is no liability ... as everybody who imagines that they are directly descended from Pondslime (via deep time and selected mistakes), can verify ... I'm sure.:)


  • #1271
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    J C wrote: »
    A healthy imagination is no liability ... as every everybody who imagines that they are directly descended from Pondslime (via deep time and selected mistakes), can verify ... I'm sure.:)

    Life orientated in the oceans, not some woodland pond ffs


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  • #1272
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    J C wrote: »
    A healthy imagination is no liability ... as every everybody who imagines that they are directly descended from Pondslime (via deep time and selected mistakes), can verify ... I'm sure.:)

    From the guy who claims to have had contact with alien lifeforms :D


  • #1273
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    _Redzer_ wrote: »
    Life orientated in the oceans, not some woodland pond ffs
    Says who ... and how?


  • #1274
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    bumper234 wrote: »
    From the guy who claims to have had contact with alien lifeforms :D
    They aren't descended from Pondslime either!!!:D


  • #1275
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,570 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    J C wrote: »
    Says who ... and how?
    For that to be true the woodland would have had to evolve from the life that originated in itself for a start...

    JC after today I've finally made up (I think) my opinion of you. I can't state it though as it's against the boards charter. You're very good at it though!


  • #1276
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    TheChizler wrote: »
    For that to be true the woodland would have had to evolve from the life that originated in itself for a start...
    I was referring to 'Pondslime' ... which would be some kind of primordial green goo in the supposed era before higher plants and therefore forest trees supposedly evolved.
    The current conventional theory postulates that life initiated its suposed evolution in ponds, possibly close to hot springs.
    TheChizler wrote: »
    JC after today I've finally made up (I think) my opinion of you. I can't state it though as it's against the boards charter. You're very good at it though!
    I'm not really that good ... it's just much easier for me ... because what I'm claiming to have happened, actually did.:)

    It's the same with this 'alien' stuff ... I have the advantage of actually having observed them and their technology, at first hand ... whereas you guys all seem to be relying on what somebody else (who has never seen them either) has told you about them.


  • #1277
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    J C wrote: »
    It's the same with this 'alien' stuff ... I have the advantage of actually having observed them and their technology, at first hand ... whereas you guys all seem to be relying on what somebody else (who has never seen them either) has told you about them.

    I really want to know more about this. What did it look like?


  • #1278
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    I really want to know more about this. What did it look like?

    He can't say, apparently after talking about it for the last few days he has now decided it's all hush hush and top secret :rolleyes:


  • #1279
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    I really want to know more about this. What did it look like?
    You don't really ... you just want to laugh ... and if I hadn't seen them myself, I'd probably be just the same as you guys, in this regard.
    Anyway, there are strong protocols about such discussions ... but most of the time they don't need to be applied because everyone is 'self-censoring' on this issue.
    ... and I'll just leave it at that, if that is OK.;)


  • #1280
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    J C wrote: »
    You don't really ... you just want to laugh ... and if I hadn't seen them myself, I'd probably be just the same as you guys, in this regard.
    Anyway, there are strong protocols about such discussions ... but most of the time they don't need to be applied because everyone is 'self-censoring' on this issue.
    ... and I'll just leave it at that, if that is OK.;)

    Trust me, I'm not laughing.


  • #1281
    Bellatori
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 276 ✭✭Bellatori


    J C wrote: »
    A healthy imagination is no liability ...

    Indeed it is not. This is how science moves forward through the judicious use of imagination BUT then followed by ... well I'll leave it to Richard Feynman to explain.

    It's that little bit at the end that causes problem for the religious.

    "If it disagrees with experiment, it’s WRONG. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are who made the guess, or what his name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.”

    It's the lack of evidence for the 'invisible friend' that makes it unbelievable and the inconsistencies with nature, for example, the existence of evil or the nature of free will both of which are at odds with the claims of omnipotence, omniscience and beneficence of the invisible friend.

    The evidence for evolution is, however, extensive.


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  • #1282
    Bellatori
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 276 ✭✭Bellatori


    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    Trust me, I'm not laughing.

    I am a great admirer of those with good self control. Yours must be epic. :)


  • #1283
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    J C wrote: »

    ... I have the advantage of actually having observed them and their technology, at first hand ...

    ...whereas you guys all seem to be relying on what somebody else (who has never seen them either) has told you about them.

    Normally,your position is the opposite,you dismiss any advancements in science.
    While relying yourself on the secondhand tales of the bible.


  • #1284
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    It's the same with this 'alien' stuff ... I have the advantage of actually having observed them and their technology, at first hand ... whereas you guys all seem to be relying on what somebody else (who has never seen them either) has told you about them.
    Knew I had something to do.....


    Neuralizer1.png

    :P

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1285
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    Knew I had something to do.....


    Neuralizer1.png

    :P
    ... be afraid ... be very afraid ... or not, if you are Saved.:):p


  • #1286
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Bellatori wrote: »
    Indeed it is not. This is how science moves forward through the judicious use of imagination BUT then followed by ... well I'll leave it to Richard Feynman to explain.

    It's that little bit at the end that causes problem for the religious.

    "If it disagrees with experiment, it’s WRONG. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are who made the guess, or what his name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.”
    ... what is the experiment that shows that CFSGI (Complex Functional Specified Genetic Information) can be spontaneously created?


  • #1287
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... what is the experiment that shows that CFSGI (Complex Functional Specified Genetic Information) can be spontaneously created?

    Are you going to post any evidence in support of creationism?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1288
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    SW wrote: »
    Are you going to post any evidence in support of creationism?

    That would be a first, have yet to see him answer a question directly never mind post evidence of anything.


  • #1289
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    Are you going to post any evidence in support of creationism?
    That would be somewhat off-topic ... as the thread is about the origin Specious Nonesense AKA Spontaneous Evolution.:);)


  • #1290
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    That would be somewhat off-topic ... as the thread is about the origin Specious Nonesense AKA Spontaneous Evolution.:);)

    So no evidence then.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • #1291
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    SW wrote: »
    Knew I had something to do.....


    Neuralizer1.png

    :P

    Don't work on me no more, you've done me too often.


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