Race attacks rise again in Belfast

orangesoda · 06-05-2014 11:47AM

shampon wrote: »

Bahahahaha

so you agree with my point?

Grayson · 06-05-2014 11:49AM

hfallada wrote: »

Have you been to any schools or colleges in Dublin. Irish and Non-Irish are mixing and forming friendships. If you go to most schools in the US, you will find the African americans go to one school and white children to another due to the way school districts are drawn. Even in places like NYC the schools are very much segregated. I would say Canada might be tolerant than us. But then again there is massive tensions between English speakings Canadians and French Canadians. To extent that French Canadians see Quebue as a state within a state, rather than a part of Canadian

Yes there is racism in Ireland. But there is racism all over the World.You will hear a German casually talk about their hatred of the Turks, a group of people in Germany for over 70 years and who are still called "Gastarbeiters or Guest Workers". You would find an Irish person talk about their hatred of Chinese within a few mins of talking to them.

Ireland is the only country in the EU without a far right, anti immigration party. And in a country where up to 20% of the population is foreign born, that says a lot about Irish people.

You're forgetting the discrimination that certain people like travellers and roma suffer. Besides that I'd agree, Ireland is very tolerant.

The north though is different. I'm not saying they are all racists but there is far more than here. Studies I read found that the majority of people were highly distrustful of all outsiders. Rather than being a directed racism that you find in other countries it's more an an insular xenophobic dislike of anyone outside of their little groups.

Yeah_Right · 06-05-2014 11:50AM

hfallada wrote: »

Have you been to any schools or colleges in Dublin. Irish and Non-Irish are mixing and forming friendships. If you go to most schools in the US, you will find the African americans go to one school and white children to another due to the way school districts are drawn. Even in places like NYC the schools are very much segregated. I would say Canada might be tolerant than us. But then again there is massive tensions between English speakings Canadians and French Canadians. To extent that French Canadians see Quebue as a state within a state, rather than a part of Canadian

Yes there is racism in Ireland. But there is racism all over the World.You will hear a German casually talk about their hatred of the Turks, a group of people in Germany for over 70 years and who are still called "Gastarbeiters or Guest Workers". You would find an Irish person talk about their hatred of Chinese within a few mins of talking to them.

Ireland is the only country in the EU without a far right, anti immigration party. And in a country where up to 20% of the population is foreign born, that says a lot about Irish people.

No I haven't attended any schools or colleges in Ireland. If what you say is true then thats great and long may it continue.

I am speaking from my experience living and working in Ireland. What I have seen and heard in the workplace on the street and in social gatherings. I know there are countries out there where racism is a far bigger problem, I simply don't believe that Ireland is one of the least racist and most tolerant countries around.

P. Breathnach · 06-05-2014 11:51AM

hfallada wrote: »

I was reading a book for sociology in college now. That said Ireland is the least racist English speaking country in the world and it brackets its had (Southern Ireland). Its incredible how the south has gone from being of the most homogeneous countries in the western world, where everyone was white, irish, catholic. To being a tolerant and diverse nation. When the North is still fighting over marginal differences between two groups of people who are very similar. I knew its a very simplified understanding of the situation.

You can out about ROI being a ****ty, poorly run country. But we have made ourselves a very tolerant nation and dodged most issues european countries are having with non-nationals

Two comments:
1. It's not that difficult to qualify as the least racist English-speaking country in the world. I'd be more interested in seeing how we stack up against our Western European neighbours.
2. If your image of Irish society was based on what you might read in AH, you might think there was a great deal of racism and xenophobia in Ireland.

orangesoda · 06-05-2014 11:53AM

hfallada wrote: »

Have you been to any schools or colleges in Dublin. Irish and Non-Irish are mixing and forming friendships. .

There were numerous different races and nationalities in my old school in the heart of Northern Ireland, never a problem at all. It is the same in any respectable school regardless of country borders.

Herb Powell · 06-05-2014 12:05PM

Candie wrote: »

I wish people would learn the difference between xenophobia and racism.

I wish people would stop saying this is such an important distinction. It's a technicality. They're both related, and both disgusting.

P. Breathnach · 06-05-2014 12:07PM

orangesoda wrote: »

There were numerous different races and nationalities in my old school in the heart of Northern Ireland, never a problem at all. It is the same in any respectable school regardless of country borders.

I suppost that by "respectable" you mean middle-class.

I would exect lower levels of racism or xenophobia among the middle classes than among the working class or underclass (but in some cases it might simply be a question of people being slower to reveal such sentiments).

shampon · 06-05-2014 12:08PM

orangesoda wrote: »

so you agree with my point?

No.

Dyr · 06-05-2014 12:13PM

A goodly influx of eastern european taigs is to be welcomed. Sectarian headcount and all that.

RDM_83 again · 06-05-2014 12:40PM

Some of the reporting of the racism issue in NI (Belfast in particular) grates on me a little, while of course there isn't an excuse for Racism (or in this case xenophobia) the fact is this would not be a newsworthy event if the thugs involved had focussed on a different aspect of their identity and scrawled "No Catholics" rather than "Locals only"

KungPao · 06-05-2014 12:47PM

Is it because they (Polish) are mostly Catholic and seen as very friendly with the Irish? And they fear that they/their kids may one day vote for a unified Ireland?

Whatever the reason, it's pathetic. I don't understand how people have the energy and 'passion' to be so hateful. Do they not have anything better to do?!

My name is URL · 06-05-2014 12:51PM

Not just belfast... there's been a 40%+ rise in racial and hate crimes in the UK over the last couple of years. Place is steadily becoming one of the most xenophobic kips in Europe.

bear1 · 06-05-2014 01:04PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Not just belfast... there's been a 40%+ rise in racial and hate crimes in the UK over the last couple of years. Place is steadily becoming one of the most xenophobic kips in Europe.

My wife has a friend who is Polish who lives in London and works in IT.
The poor guy says he has to cover up his accent as much as possible or he gets a lot of funny looks through-out his office and when he tells them where he's from they mumble the "stealing our jobs" bit.
I feel bad for the guy as he said he is ridiculed there based on his nationality instead of appreciated for the skills that he brings.
What's happening in Belfast is nothing new. I've read many times of these racial attacks.
It's disgusting to say the least but it won't stop until all that is left up there is them.

keeponhurling · 06-05-2014 01:24PM

hfallada wrote: »

You would find an Irish person talk about their hatred of Chinese within a few mins of talking to them.

.

Really?

I don't think I ever heard anybody say anything like that. In fact "a great bunch of lads" is the phrase I hear used the most to describe them.

I also think that even if an Irish person was racist/xenophobic, they generally keep these thoughts to themselves or only share among close friends.
i.e. they are aware that some people may be offended by them.

Reiketsu · 06-05-2014 01:26PM

I have lived in Northern Ireland all my life and honestly it saddens me when people seem to only focus on the bad happening in the country and don't realise that its a tiny group of idiots doing this stuff. You get assholes everywhere, its not exclusive to this country. I don't know one person who would approve of this behaviour and yet people act like we are all at it.

P. Breathnach · 06-05-2014 01:42PM

Reiketsu wrote: »

I have lived in Northern Ireland all my life and honestly it saddens me when people seem to only focus on the bad happening in the country and don't realise that its a tiny group of idiots doing this stuff. You get assholes everywhere, its not exclusive to this country. I don't know one person who would approve of this behaviour and yet people act like we are all at it.

I think that most people recognise that the ghetto communities are not represenative of everybody in NI.

Reiketsu · 06-05-2014 01:47PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I think that most people recognise that the ghetto communities are not represenative of everybody in NI.

The way people talk about the place in some threads would make you wonder

bear1 · 06-05-2014 01:49PM

Reiketsu wrote: »

The way people talk about the place in some threads would make you wonder

There are also threads about our own country which would make you think it's a corrupt cesspit, but that isn't the case either.

P. Breathnach · 06-05-2014 03:13PM

Reiketsu wrote: »

The way people talk about the place in some threads would make you wonder

Remember that this is AH, so you can expect some poorly-expressed ideas. And some wind-up merchants.

Olive8585 · 06-05-2014 03:15PM

orangesoda wrote: »

There were numerous different races and nationalities in my old school in the heart of Northern Ireland, never a problem at all. It is the same in any respectable school regardless of country borders.

Yep. My cousin went to secondary school in NI (she's Irish/British but one of her grandparents was foreign) and never really had any issues there, people just heard her accent and accepted her as Northern Irish.

She went down to Dublin for college and had endless questions and comments and interrogations...I wouldn't have believed her had I not seen it myself. When people asked where she was from and she said Northern Ireland, they'd say 'ah yeah but where are you REALLY from?' or 'well, your parents can't be from there', as if she was lying or something? She's not even half foreign, only a quarter. Granddad and dad born in Northern Ireland and the way people went on, you would have thought she'd just arrived in the country. It was pure embarrassing and cringeworthy to hear some of the things people said. Comes across as so ignorant and backwards in this day and age.

Son Of A Vidic · 06-05-2014 03:55PM

orangesoda wrote: »

Sure some unionists think they are the true natives because the Cruithin were driven to Scotland in 637AD by the Northern Ui Neill, yet they use the red hand symbol which is associated with the tribes of that kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruthin#Modern_culture

Always found it laughable and quite ironic to see, how Loyalism hijackacked aspects of Irish mythology and folklore to try and validate their Britishness.

orangesoda · 06-05-2014 04:03PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Always found it laughable and quite ironic to see, how Loyalism hijackacked aspects of Irish mythology and folklore to try and validate their Britishness.

it is our Celtic and Gaelic identity/heritage that can bring the people together but that is too Irish for our Orange neighbours

Frank Lee Midere · 06-05-2014 04:12PM

Olive8585 wrote: »

Yep. My cousin went to secondary school in NI (she's Irish/British but one of her grandparents was foreign) and never really had any issues there, people just heard her accent and accepted her as Northern Irish.

She went down to Dublin for college and had endless questions and comments and interrogations...I wouldn't have believed her had I not seen it myself. When people asked where she was from and she said Northern Ireland, they'd say 'ah yeah but where are you REALLY from?' or 'well, your parents can't be from there', as if she was lying or something? She's not even half foreign, only a quarter. Granddad and dad born in Northern Ireland and the way people went on, you would have thought she'd just arrived in the country. It was pure embarrassing and cringeworthy to hear some of the things people said. Comes across as so ignorant and backwards in this day and age.

An anecdote not a statistic. But in any case asking where somebody's parents come from is not really xenophobic.

The reason why poles are less accepted up North by some is clearly their Catholicism. The UK has decided that sectarianism towards Catholicism - the mainstay of a lot of it's historical bigotry - is ok. Take the 12th July and were it to happen on the "mainland" and to Muslims the Guardian would demand the banning of the organisations.

Frank Lee Midere · 06-05-2014 04:13PM

orangesoda wrote: »

it is our Celtic and Gaelic identity/heritage that can bring the people together but that is too Irish for our Orange neighbours

Are you not orange? ( how'd the presentation go?)

orangesoda · 06-05-2014 04:15PM

Olive8585 wrote: »

Yep. My cousin went to secondary school in NI (she's Irish/British but one of her grandparents was foreign) and never really had any issues there, people just heard her accent and accepted her as Northern Irish.

She went down to Dublin for college and had endless questions and comments and interrogations...I wouldn't have believed her had I not seen it myself. When people asked where she was from and she said Northern Ireland, they'd say 'ah yeah but where are you REALLY from?' or 'well, your parents can't be from there', as if she was lying or something? She's not even half foreign, only a quarter. Granddad and dad born in Northern Ireland and the way people went on, you would have thought she'd just arrived in the country. It was pure embarrassing and cringeworthy to hear some of the things people said. Comes across as so ignorant and backwards in this day and age.

I used to get abuse from a young girl at school, philipino i think with a northern ireland accent, I called her all the names under the sun under my breath but never brought race into it at all

Olive8585 · 06-05-2014 04:25PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

An anecdote not a statistic. But in any case asking where somebody's parents come from is not really xenophobic.

The reason why poles are less accepted up North by some is clearly their Catholicism. The UK has decided that sectarianism towards Catholicism - the mainstay of a lot of it's historical bigotry - is ok. Take the 12th July and were it to happen on the "mainland" and to Muslims the Guardian would demand the banning of the organisations.

How are you ever going to have statistics about something like this? What a stupid thing to say. Physical assaults or serious verbal assaults might be reported to the Gardai, but what about all the other comments, dirty looks, insinuations, etc.?

I think implying that someone isn't 'really' Irish because of the way they look is pretty xenophobic and bigoted.

Frank Lee Midere · 06-05-2014 05:34PM

Olive8585 wrote: »

How are you ever going to have statistics about something like this? What a stupid thing to say. Physical assaults or serious verbal assaults might be reported to the Gardai, but what about all the other comments, dirty looks, insinuations, etc.?

I think implying that someone isn't 'really' Irish because of the way they look is pretty xenophobic and bigoted.

They are asking where the parents came from. Because we haven't had much immigration that's a reasonable question ( what's your background?). The only person taking this up as not being "really Irish" is you. "Where are you from" is not a racist question. It's how I met my last Brazillian girlfriend, although that was in England. She said "Brazil" not " don't be racist".

Olive8585 · 06-05-2014 06:07PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

They are asking where the parents came from. Because we haven't had much immigration that's a reasonable question ( what's your background?). The only person taking this up as not being "really Irish" is you. "Where are you from" is not a racist question. It's how I met my last Brazillian girlfriend, although that was in England. She said "Brazil" not " don't be racist".

You're talking about a completely different thing. Your girlfriend was actually Brazilian. Very different to being Irish with ONE foreign grandparent and have everyone you meet prying into your family background as if it's even the slightest bit their business, and actually implying that you're lying by claiming to be Irish. That was the issue with my cousin - she's Irish born and raised (as are her parents) and people used to talk to her as if she'd just stepped off the plane! People used to ask her what she thought of the food etc - I'm sorry but that's just cringeworthy. But yes, it was mostly well-intentioned but ignorant. However, she did get a few really bigoted comments along the lines of 'you're not Irish. Irish people have white skin.' She always used to get followed around in shops quite a bit, which has never happened to me (I'm very pasty).

06-05-2014 06:11PM

Stained Class wrote: »

What problems do I have?

NI has had it's problems. The Yanks panderd to it. The Brits pumped in millions into the place.

People running the show were given Nobel Peace prizes.

And yet, it's still a disaster!!

Fook it.

How insightful, you show an overwhelming understanding of it all.

Queen-Mise · 06-05-2014 06:52PM

hfallada wrote: »

I was reading a book for sociology in college now. That said Ireland is the least racist English speaking country in the world and it brackets its had (Southern Ireland). Its incredible how the south has gone from being of the most homogeneous countries in the western world, where everyone was white, irish, catholic. To being a tolerant and diverse nation. When the North is still fighting over marginal differences between two groups of people who are very similar. I knew its a very simplified understanding of the situation.

You can out about ROI being a ****ty, poorly run country. But we have made ourselves a very tolerant nation and dodged most issues european countries are having with non-nationals

Did your Sociology book give any reasons for this? I find this absolutely fascinating and think there is a lot of truth to it.

I heard this a couple of months ago again, and reasoning behind it was because we were 97% (ish) white, Catholic and Irish. Therefore we are tolerant of all 'others'. I don't get the connection on how such homogeneity can lead to such openness.

Is it something to do with the Irish having emigrated to practically every country in the world? Or is it the homogeneity?

Race attacks rise again in Belfast

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