American kid figures out that 5+5+5+5 is the same as 5x4, is marked down for it

hatrickpatrick · 25-04-2014 07:27PM #1

This is exactly what's wrong with our conformity obsessed culture.
http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/23y5r0/so_my_1st_grade_daughter_got_an_answer_wrong_on_a/

Because she didn't figure it out the way everyone else did (in fact figured it out in a way that was more advanced than everyone else) she was marked incorrect. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how we ensure that everyone is average and that those who are excelling get pulled back to the average.

I wouldn't usually post stuff from Reddit on AH but this one made my blood boil. To be fair, I don't think this kind of sh!te goes on in Irish schools, people who found the clever shortcuts at any stage were always praised for their ingenuity in my school anyway, but all the same, pretty disturbing for a maths teacher to act this way.

kneemos · 25-04-2014 07:30PM

Reddit sucks the big one.

Hell Ram · 25-04-2014 07:31PM

Reddit hurts my eyes.

catallus · 25-04-2014 07:33PM

Reddit Rules All.

Sir Arthur Daley · 25-04-2014 07:33PM

Math hurts my eyes.

GenieOz · 25-04-2014 07:34PM

Are ya serious? This kind of shîte is rampant in Irish schools.

I had an essay marked down for the use of the word ignorance as meaning lack of knowledge.
My English teacher told me that it means when you are ignoring someone that you are ignorant and nothing more.

I still laugh at the irony but cry at the fact he's still teaching.

sea_monkey · 25-04-2014 07:35PM

So we're just linking to reddit now?

Artful_Badger · 25-04-2014 07:36PM

Its harsh for a kid I suppose but I can understand it on some level though. They are probably learning addition. So answering the question by multiplication is technical wrong.

Even in college if you're taught how to do something one way you're expected to show you understand how to do it that way and not any other way you feel is better. The question isnt "Show me the answer" its "Show you understand what you've been taught".

aunt aggie · 25-04-2014 07:36PM

Don't believe it! I'm a maths teacher and if you get the right answer using a correct method, then you get the marks. It doesnt matter if its not in the mark scheme or if its unexpected. Teachers should be subject experts who can spot and reward independent thinking. I refuse to believe there is a teacher out there who doesnt understand 5+5+5+5 is the same as 4x5.

hatrickpatrick · 25-04-2014 07:37PM

GenieOz wrote: »

Are ya serious? This kind of shîte is rampant in Irish schools.

I had an essay marked down for the use of the word ignorance as lack of knowledge.
My English teacher told me that it means when you are ignoring someone that you are ignorant and nothing more.

I still laugh at the irony but cry at the fact he's still teaching.

C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

As I said in the OP, my own school is my own real frame of reference and they always encouraged those who had jumped ahead, as long of course as they hadn't skipped anything. In History we were expected to read ahead for example while our teacher was checking homework etc. In maths, if someone found a method which was sound (not just a coincidence) and was easier to remember or implement than the one we'd been taught in class, our teacher would stick it up on the board so the rest of us could learn it.

From your post, perhaps we were just lucky to have great teachers...

25-04-2014 07:38PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is exactly what's wrong with our conformity obsessed culture.
http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/23y5r0/so_my_1st_grade_daughter_got_an_answer_wrong_on_a/

Because she didn't figure it out the way everyone else did (in fact figured it out in a way that was more advanced than everyone else) she was marked incorrect. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how we ensure that everyone is average and that those who are excelling get pulled back to the average.

I wouldn't usually post stuff from Reddit on AH but this one made my blood boil. To be fair, I don't think this kind of sh!te goes on in Irish schools, people who found the clever shortcuts at any stage were always praised for their ingenuity in my school anyway, but all the same, pretty disturbing for a maths teacher to act this way.

I got in trouble a lot for doing basic maths in my head in primary and marks deducted for correct answers
A word with the teacher was had

darkpagandeath · 25-04-2014 07:38PM

Reddit the new 4chan .... Well thinks it is with all it's none obvious trolls that are really subtle :pac::pac:

hatrickpatrick · 25-04-2014 07:39PM

aunt aggie wrote: »

Don't believe it! I'm a maths teacher and if you get the right answer using a correct method, then you get the marks. It doesnt matter if its not in the mark scheme or if its unexpected. Teachers should be subject experts who can spot and reward independent thinking. I refuse to believe there is a teacher out there who doesnt understand 5+5+5+5 is the same as 4x5.

As I understand it from my reading of the Reddit thread, it wasn't so much that the teacher didn't understand the solution this girl used, but that she marked her down on the basis of "rushing ahead" or being a "know it all" or something along those lines. Not sticking rigidly to what was being taught in class.
Perhaps there are some people who can see merit in that way of teaching, but I for one find it repulsive - those who are exceptional learners should be encouraged, not penalized and made to feel like crap about it.

Frank Lee Midere · 25-04-2014 07:41PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I got in trouble a lot for doing basic maths in my head in primary and marks deducted for correct answers
A word with the teacher was had

You are expected to show your working out in most mathematical questions.

25-04-2014 07:42PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

You are expected to show your working out in most mathematical questions.

I think we can skip it in the case of "if i need 2 eggs to make a sponge cake how many eggs do I need for 2 sponge cakes" rather than "she has to be guessing"

Karl Stein · 25-04-2014 07:42PM

There's only one thing that will solve this issue.

More guns.

aunt aggie · 25-04-2014 07:42PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As I understand it from my reading of the Reddit thread, it wasn't so much that the teacher didn't understand the solution this girl used, but that she marked her down on the basis of "rushing ahead" or being a "know it all" or something along those lines. Not sticking rigidly to what was being taught in class.
Perhaps there are some people who can see merit in that way of teaching, but I for one find it repulsive - those who are exceptional learners should be encouraged, not penalized and made to feel like crap about it.

I understand that and that's why I don't believe this ever happened. It's complete bull****.

Witcher · 25-04-2014 07:44PM

I think you need to brush up on your English and probably your maths OP, the question was;

'Mary and her four brothers each have 5 apples. How many
apples do they have in all?'

It's 5x5 not 5x4...capable of better OP.

25-04-2014 07:45PM

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Its harsh for a kid I suppose but I can understand it on some level though. They are probably learning addition. So answering the question by multiplication is technical wrong.

Even in college if you're taught how to do something one way you're expected to show you understand how to do it that way and not any other way you feel is better. The question isnt "Show me the answer" its "Show you understand what you've been taught".

Which college? Where I went someone pointed out a different way to do a question on partial differential equations and the lecturer was delighted. Someone lecturing at university level is going to be able to tell if someone understands what they're doing by doing a question using a different method. It's exactly the same in this case (which I'm not exactly sold on the veracity of :pac: ), the kid answered the question asked perfectly.

Overheal · 25-04-2014 07:45PM

You posted a photo meme

From reddit

and are passing it off as news.

Yep it's time for an internet-break.

25-04-2014 07:45PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I think we can skip it in the case of "if i need 2 eggs to make a sponge cake how many eggs do I need for 2 sponge cakes" rather than "she has to be guessing"

Do you have some clothes that aren't grey? That kind of thinking is dangerous.

Mr. Incognito · 25-04-2014 07:46PM

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Its harsh for a kid I suppose but I can understand it on some level though. They are probably learning addition. So answering the question by multiplication is technical wrong.

Even in college if you're taught how to do something one way you're expected to show you understand how to do it that way and not any other way you feel is better. The question isnt "Show me the answer" its "Show you understand what you've been taught".

I dispair reading this. "Answering thequestion by multiplication is technically wrong"

How. Where is this rule? Please show it to me. The kid got the right answer and dope of a teacher went....ah!!! technically....wrong. That is not a learning environment. It is an enviroment for idiots that think there is only one way and it must be followed slavishly.

Adopt that attitude and you will have no advances in art, literature, science and yes, maths.

This person should not be teaching and we teach teachers by rote so its no wonder

aunt aggie · 25-04-2014 07:47PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

You are expected to show your working out in most mathematical questions.

Teachers insist students show their work so they dont lose attempt marks in an exam situation. Primary school kids dont take exams and if they do they'd get those mark because they were right.

Still there is no valid reason why a teacher would ever mark a student down in this situation. The kid could have drawn stick men holding four apples each, adding them up individually and they'd still deserve the marks.

FlusterCluck · 25-04-2014 07:47PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is exactly what's wrong with our conformity obsessed culture.

Because she didn't figure it out the way everyone else did (in fact figured it out in a way that was more advanced than everyone else) she was marked incorrect. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how we ensure that everyone is average and that those who are excelling get pulled back to the average.

I wouldn't usually post stuff from Reddit on AH but this one made my blood boil. To be fair, I don't think this kind of sh!te goes on in Irish schools, people who found the clever shortcuts at any stage were always praised for their ingenuity in my school anyway, but all the same, pretty disturbing for a maths teacher to act this way.

Only marked wrong?

I'm surprised the teacher didn't call the cops who would then have gone on to taze the kid, cuff her and bring in the back of a squad car down to central booking.

Apparently you get put on the sex offender's list in the US now if you are 6 and send a love-letter to a classroom sweetheart.

hatrickpatrick · 25-04-2014 07:47PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I think we can skip it in the case of "if i need 2 eggs to make a sponge cake how many eggs do I need for 2 sponge cakes" rather than "she has to be guessing"

There's a video out there somewhere of someone being asked "If I'm going at 45 miles per hour, how long will it take me to go 45 miles?" and trying to figure it out using all kinds of bizarrely complicated methodology... So perhaps there's a good reason for requiring methods

(joking obviously, marking someone down for that level of arithmetic not being explained is a bit mad)

hatrickpatrick · 25-04-2014 07:50PM

FlusterCluck wrote: »

Only marked wrong?

I'm surprised the teacher didn't call the cops who would then have gone on to taze the kid, cuff her and bring in the back of a squad car down to central booking.

Apparently you get put on the sex offender's list in the US now if you are 6 and send a love-letter to a classroom sweetheart.

This article in last week's Waterford Whisperer is almost too frighteningly accurate at portraying American school paranoia and "call the cops culture" to be funny:
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/04/16/going-to-school-now-most-dangerous-thing-to-do-in-america/

Sir Arthur Daley · 25-04-2014 07:51PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

There's only one thing that will solve this issue.

More guns.

And celebrate afterwards in Macdonalds.

theoneeyedman · 25-04-2014 07:54PM

It is difficult to take their argument seriously when nobody on that thread can spell MATHS correctly....

tritium · 25-04-2014 07:56PM

Reminds me of two friends of mine studying economics in a well respected Irish university a few years ago. Both were also doing statistics and used the (correct) statistical method to solve an economics assignment instead of the lazy approximation in their notes. Both got marked down for it as they didn't use the approach they were taught

Overheal · 25-04-2014 07:56PM

theoneeyedman wrote: »

It is difficult to take their argument seriously when nobody on that thread can spell MATHS correctly....

which itself is some stupid shorthand europeans enjoy for Mathematics, taking out the ematic and keeping the s. It's Math.

Artful_Badger · 25-04-2014 07:59PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I dispair reading this. "Answering thequestion by multiplication is technically wrong"

How. Where is this rule? Please show it to me. The kid got the right answer and dope of a teacher went....ah!!! technically....wrong. That is not a learning environment. It is an enviroment for idiots that think there is only one way and it must be followed slavishly.

Adopt that attitude and you will have no advances in art, literature, science and yes, maths.

This person should not be teaching and we teach teachers by rote so its no wonder

I mean if the kid was being examined on addition it would be wrong to answer using multiplication. Its the only reason I can think of to mark it wrong considering it is the right answer to the question asked.

Never said it was right but I've come across that method of examination all the way up to third level. A lot of the time you get examined on what specifically you've been taught and how to solve problems rather than simply examined just on your ability to solve them.

American kid figures out that 5+5+5+5 is the same as 5x4, is marked down for it

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