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We have a problem with suicide in Ireland

  • 12-04-2014 11:47AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    This line stuck out from the Irish time's article for me.
    The report found that Ireland has the highest rate of suicide in young females across Europe and the second highest rate of suicide in young males.

    Why are young people today suffering so much. I grew up in the eighties and don't remember there being as much suicides (I could be wrong). I do remember in the eighties we had a better sense of community (in Dublin anyway) than some communities do now. People seem more isolated and depressed today than they were ten years ago.

    I work in UCD and there has been a worrying number of students who have killed themselves in the last 4 years here. Many of them have been due to financial difficulties (they reported financial difficulties to friends in advance) being unable to pay fees and find housing ect. Is increased financial burden the reason for suicide or loss of the community?

    I blame bought to be honest. We're all broke in the eighties but at least we had a strong sense of community.

    Ireland has exceptionally high rates of suicide among young males and females but lacks a national strategy on prevention, a Europe-wide report on injuries sustained by children as a result of violence has found.
    The report is the first to comprehensively assess national strategies that address child intentional injury across the EU. It examines child maltreatment, peer violence and self-directed violence which are regarded as the three main areas of violence against children.
    The European Child Safety Alliance report found that despite the high suicide rate here, Ireland does not have a national strategy for the prevention of suicide and self-directed injury.

    >

    It also highlights the absence of laws mandating reporting of suspected cases of child maltreatment by professionals and the absence of laws prohibiting corporal punishment in all settings.
    Dr Anthony Staines, chair of health systems at DCU’s School of Nursing and Human Sciences said Ireland has “a very serious problem with suicide.”
    Dr Staines said Ireland does not have “a full range of measures in place to minimise intentional injury in childhood, though we are better in this respect than many other countries.”
    “Intentional injury in childhood is often a hidden problem and needs much more attention from Irish and European societies,” he said.
    Of the more than 35,000 children and adolescents aged 0-19 years who die each year in the EU, about 24 per cent or roughly 9,100 deaths are due to injuries. Of these, about a third are classified as intentional or of undetermined intent.
    There were 600 deaths of people under the age of 25 recorded in Ireland in 2012. Of these, 195 of were due to external causes, 101 were accidental and 94 were intentional or unknown (mostly suicide).
    The report found that Ireland has the highest rate of suicide in young females across Europe and the second highest rate of suicide in young males.
    At 5.12 male deaths per 100,000 of children aged 0-19, Ireland had the second highest rate of suicide across Europe. Lithuania had the highest incidence of male suicide at 6.58 boys per 100,000. This compares to a EU 28 average of 2.39.
    Ireland had the highest rate of female suicide across the surveyed countries at 2.09 per 100, 000. This compares to an average across 28 EU countries of 0.84 and is 19 times greater than the lowest rate of 0.11 in Greece*.
    The figures used in the study are based on data from the World Health Organisation’s European detailed mortality database from 2009 to 2011.
    Ireland compares well with other countries in some policy areas and is one of only four countries to have either a national programme of multi-disciplinary child death reviews or regional programmes across the whole country in place.
    Ireland also had the lowest rate of child homicide per 100,000 aged 0-19 years at 0.11 in boys and 0.27 in girls. This compares to an average of 0.44 in boys and 0.36 in girls across the EU28 plus Norway.
    In general, the report finds that the resources put toward combating child intentional injury do not take account of the magnitude of the issue, considering the life-long impact that violence can have on children.
    It calls for improved leadership to make intentional injury prevention a priority; better provision of detailed mortality data and the introduction of national coordinating frameworks and plans to prevent intentional child injury.
    “It is clear that preventing intentional injuries is an investment that will save money both now and in the future and efforts must be made to ensure investment are at minimum maintained, if not increased, during the current economic crisis. The decisions made today will ultimately affect future generations of Europeans,” the report says.
    * This article was amended on 21/03/14 to correct an error.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,354 ✭✭✭El Horseboxo


    I only lived in Ireland for 5 years and I know of 5 friends that committed suicide. Some of my time involved 5th and 6th year. 3 friends from school took their own lives while 2 close friends done the same. Most friends I have from Ireland know young males that ended their lives. Rarely seems to be talked about as an issue. I shouldn't know any young people that died at my age.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭qdawg86


    This is not based on anything but my own musings but are young people somehow more vulnerable and less emotionally equipped to handle stress or pressure these days ?

    Or were there just as many suicides but we just never heard about them ? I know in my own extended family there were 2 suicides that were 'covered up' (we were told of a different cause of death at the time by family members).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I only lived in Ireland for 5 years and I know of 5 friends that committed suicide. Some of my time involved 5th and 6th year. 3 friends from school took their own lives while 2 close friends done the same. Most friends I have from Ireland know young males that ended their lives. Rarely seems to be talked about as an issue. I shouldn't know any young people that died at my age.

    No you shouldn't. I'm very sorry to hear for your loss H.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    qdawg86 wrote: »
    This is not based on anything but my own musings but are young people somehow more vulnerable and less emotionally equipped to handle stress or pressure these days ?

    Or were there just as many suicides but we just never heard about them ? I know in my own extended family there were 2 suicides that were 'covered up' (we were told of a different cause of death at the time by family members).

    I would actually agree with your point qdawg, Young people today don't seem as emotionally strong as they were. A lot of suicide is covered up in Ireland I imagine.


  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Have the rates really changed? Suicide was rarely reported as such back when it was considered a crime and a sin.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    jh79 wrote: »
    Have the rates really changed? Suicide was rarely reported as such back when it was considered a crime and a sin.

    I can't give exact figures but I was certainly less aware of it. Certainly if a young child in my school died by suicide then it would be well known.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    My beautiful brother died by suicide just over a year ago. All I can say its a horrowing experience.

    Simply talk to your close friends and family. They may have something bothering them but feel they can't talk to anyone about it.

    Talk. Be there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭bockeys jollocks


    It's not just young students killing themselves, I know of one family that couldn't cope with loosing their jobs. Their life crumbled around them. The father and husband took his own life, then the wife did 6 months later. The kids now have no parents.

    This was all down to the crumbling economy. I never saw it on the news or in the papers. Deliberately brushed under the carpet probably on orders of the government. I wonder how many more suicide related cases there are out there related to this fcuking sham of an economy FF left us with? I know of a few more that were never reported on. Again financial pressure and unemployment were suspected.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    I think a lot of student face financial difficulty so I'm not sure how good of a gauge it is in determining what caused the suicide. And as another poster said a lot are secondary school students who wouldn't be under much financial strain.

    But suicide is a real issue with no obvious solution unfortunately.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    bikeman1 wrote: »
    My beautiful brother died by suicide just over a year ago. All I can say its a horrowing experience.

    Simply talk to your close friends and family. They may have something bothering them but feel they can't talk to anyone about it.

    Talk. Be there.

    I'm so, so sorry for your loss.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    It's not just young students killing themselves, I know of one family that couldn't cope with loosing their jobs. Their life crumbled around them. The father and husband took his own life, then the wife did 6 months later. The kids now have no parents.
    .

    This is one of the saddest things I've read in a long time


  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I can't give exact figures but I was certainly less aware of it. Certainly if a young child in my school died by suicide then it would be well known.

    But would it be officially recognized for stat purposes.

    I think people always knew but whether it was officially documented i'm not too sure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    It's not just young students killing themselves, I know of one family that couldn't cope with loosing their jobs. Their life crumbled around them. The father and husband took his own life, then the wife did 6 months later. The kids now have no parents.

    This was all down to the crumbling economy. I never saw it on the news or in the papers. Deliberately brushed under the carpet probably on orders of the government. I wonder how many more suicide related cases there are out there related to this fcuking sham of an economy FF left us with? I know of a few more that were never reported on. Again financial pressure and unemployment were suspected.

    Oh I know. A pet hate of mine is the way people don't think that financial hardship is responsible for suicide. Of course it is. That and the fact that some people have no sympathy for those going through hardship. I represent people in college struggling to get by. Many from backgrounds of abuse and foster homes and obviously they struggle to pay fees and the response they get from some students is "If you can't afford fees you shouldn't be in college" (look to the UCD forum for that opinion).

    The lack of empathy towards others in these circumstance are in part to blame imho.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    jh79 wrote: »
    But would it be officially recognized for stat purposes.

    I think people always knew but whether it was officially documented i'm not too sure.

    In their eighties Ireland was more or less a developing country :S. I wouldn't put to much faith in strict record keeping of this nature (ie many felt shame by suicide in the family).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    It's not just young students killing themselves, I know of one family that couldn't cope with loosing their jobs. Their life crumbled around them. The father and husband took his own life, then the wife did 6 months later. The kids now have no parents.

    This was all down to the crumbling economy. I never saw it on the news or in the papers. Deliberately brushed under the carpet probably on orders of the government. I wonder how many more suicide related cases there are out there related to this fcuking sham of an economy FF left us with? I know of a few more that were never reported on. Again financial pressure and unemployment were suspected.


    I wish every success in life to those kids. I hope things improve for them in life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    I was discussing this with some work colleagues - brought on by the funeral of another acquaintance who sadly took his own life very recently - an all too common event. Between the three of us, we could immediately name a dozen people who had done the same within the last year or two. That was without really trying hard as well. That is just abysmal. That's adults, men and women. I spoke to my kids later that day and it was the same story - they could reel off a list of names of young adults and teenagers.

    This is a huge, largely unseen problem in Ireland causing untold suffering both to those who feel, for whatever reason, they have no other option, and for their families and friends. Just saying "Please talk to someone" - while a good first step, just is not enough. Suicide prevention needs urgent action, it needs proper, effective resourcing by the State, and it needs discussion, a lot of discussion, both to find the reasons why, and the measures required to reduce the incidences of this happening. The Government has failed on this so far, and that is unacceptable. Change in policy and approach is required.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    There are definitely plenty of suicides caused by financial hardship.

    The problem is, for a lot of people, we will never know the reason. There's still a horrible taboo surrounding mental illness, and it's so, so hard to receive appropriate help if you can bring yourself to ask for it. Some people are simply too depressed to fight to get the help they need.

    I know at least 15 people who killed themselves, some adults, most young adults of a similar age to me. Several of them left suicide notes. I only read one, and it didn't give a clear cut reason, just a note to say how much she loved everyone and how sorry she was that she could not keep living. It's the most harrowing thing I've ever read.

    Out of the people I knew who killed themselves, 9 were friends, some extremely close friends, all of a similar age to me (I'm 25). None were struggling financially, all appeared happy outwardly.

    It's just almost impossible to spot when somebody is suicidal. God knows I hid it well for years.

    There needs to be immediate treatment available. Waiting four bloody months to see a psychiatrist is not going to help someone who's struggling to just stay alive.

    Until those waiting lists are chopped, the taboo around mental health is eradicated (even my own siblings would call me a freak for being mentally ill and were ashamed of me), and more education on mental health is given, we'll continue to have massive problems with suicide.

    We can't save everyone, but we should damn well be trying harder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭bockeys jollocks


    I was discussing this with some work colleagues - brought on by the funeral of another acquaintance who sadly took his own life very recently - an all too common event. Between the three of us, we could immediately name a dozen people who had done the same within the last year or two. That was without really trying hard as well. That is just abysmal. That's adults, men and women. I spoke to my kids later that day and it was the same story - they could reel off a list of names of young adults and teenagers.

    This is a huge, largely unseen problem in Ireland causing untold suffering both to those who feel, for whatever reason, they have no other option, and for their families and friends. Just saying "Please talk to someone" - while a good first step, just is not enough. Suicide prevention needs urgent action, it needs proper, effective resourcing by the State, and it needs discussion, a lot of discussion, both to find the reasons why, and the measures required to reduce the incidences of this happening. The Government has failed on this so far, and that is unacceptable. Change in policy and approach is required.

    I suspect some of the people that commit suicide and have mortgage debt are under the impression that their mortgage will be written off and the spouse will get the house. I'm not sure but I have heard that if you have a joint mortgage the burden is passed on and is not wiped off because suicide is a deliberate act.

    I must dig out my life insurance policy and see if it's in the T's & C's, I'm curious to see if that's the case. People rarely go through all the legal jargon with a fine tooth comb.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Are people less caring for other peoples problems than they were?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Mikros


    There were 525 deaths by suicide recorded in Ireland in 2011 - the most recent figure I could find.
    There were 186 deaths on the roads in 2011.

    The funding for the Road Safety Authority is in the region of €30 million. The funding for the National Office for Suicide Prevention is €9 million.

    I don't mean to compare lives lost - both are a tragedy - and both should be a priority. But huge resources were put into road safety and there has been a big reduction in road deaths compared to 10 years ago. Unfortunately despite lip service from Government, investment in mental health and suicide prevention has been completely lacking in comparison. The suicide problem we don't talk about is actually getting worse.

    Coupled with that there exists a consistent trend for excessive drinking among Irish young people, in contrast to many of other European countries. Research suggest around 50% of suicide victims had abused alcohol within 12 months of their death - it's hard not to see a potential link there.

    It is never too late to reach out for some help if you are struggling.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Many from backgrounds of abuse and foster homes and obviously they struggle to pay fees and the response they get from some students is "If you can't afford fees you shouldn't be in college" (look to the UCD forum for that opinion)
    Ew. :mad: :(
    I'm finding people becoming less compassionate overall. Young people, particularly students, were associated with fighting for the downtrodden.
    Now there's this "Cool to be right-wing and hard" shyte in fashion. I know you get gobshytery from people who are "cause"-addicted, but at least they give a sh1t about others, however naive it might be at times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    I suspect some of the people that commit suicide and have mortgage debt are under the impression that their mortgage will be written off and the spouse will get the house. I'm not sure but I have heard that if you have a joint mortgage the burden is passed on and is not wiped off because suicide is a deliberate act.

    I must dig out my life insurance policy and see if it's in the T's & C's, I'm curious to see if that's the case. People rarely go through all the legal jargon with a fine tooth comb.

    I'm afraid a lot of RTAs are simply suicide in-disguise due to this ^. People feel if they "have a car crash" and die, they will avoid the "stigma" for their families and the legal ramifications. Something for the RSA to consider. And the comments by Green regarding waiting times to get help are very true - there are very few routes to immediate assistance available. Again, this needs addressing. It may not be addressed, but it needs doing. If there are no services, no help available, then we have a very poor society.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭bockeys jollocks


    Mikros wrote: »
    There were 525 deaths by suicide recorded in Ireland in 2011.

    That's the official figure, I'm sure it's higher than that, we're only two pages in and the amount of posters that know of multiple suicides is shocking!


  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    In their eighties Ireland was more or less a developing country :S. I wouldn't put to much faith in strict record keeping of this nature (ie many felt shame by suicide in the family).

    So hard to tell whether it is increasing going on official records.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,062 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Suicide really is such a problem in our country, i do think that attitudes have changed somewhat in recent years towards those with mental health problems. It's not just those who commit suicide either, reading that harrowing piece by Wayne Hutchinson and seeing how close he came to suicide, makes you wonder how many have been in that same place but fortunately not gone through with taking their life. Having grown up with a father who suffered terrible depression i understand what it can do to a family also, thank god he is still around and never took his own life, he has said since it was something he considered many times. The two important factors i feel are firstly attitudes in society and people feeling they can talk. Secondly services so many organisations provide a vital service, Aware, Samaritans, Pieta House to name just a few. The government cutting funds for mental health is a disgrace they say they want to tackle the issue how i wonder do they think it helps the issue by cutting the funding of vital mental health services. It's a major problem but i do have hope that society seems to have become aware of how big an issue it is and that attitudes are changing at last to those with mental health problems. Oh and on the regard of services, when i went to my GP seeking help for depression i was told it would be 5 months before i see a psychiatrist luckily i was not on the verge of suicide i was just feeling very down and depressed at the time. But i left wondering if someone was close to suicide how awful it would feel to be told you have to live 5 more months as you are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Stavros Murphy


    That's the official figure, I'm sure it's higher than that, we're only two pages in and the amount of posters that know of multiple suicides is shocking!

    Totally true. Coroners will avoid listing the cause of death as "suicide" if there is even a glimmer of another category to list it under. Again, death by truck would be listed under RTAs, not suicide, as would a lot of "falls, slips and accidents" - again, not suicide. Families will also blur the circumstances, totally understandable too, to avoid the true circumstances becoming known. The true figures are higher. Much higher. Which is scary, really.

    I spoke to a lady I know who works in the Morgue of a large Regional Hospital, she is a serious, dedicated woman and I respect her opinions - she said "it is just an epidemic Stavros, you would not believe the numbers". And this is across all sections of Irish society, there is no "one group" affected.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭ENMcD


    I lost my dad to suicide years ago and I remember at the time people could barely look at me let alone speak to me because it was such a huge shock in the community. I was only 15 myself and I genuinely hated him for it but as the years passed I began to realise a lot of it was down to alcohol, which he turned to after losing his job, so my hate for him did subside.

    In the past few years I feel people are beginning to speak more openly about the issue but at the same time it feels like the rate has rocketed! I think it is something that needs to be addressed from entering 1st year in secondary school as this is where reality kicks in. Kids can be mean and other just can't take it which pushes them to a dark place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    We need huge investment in mental health services in this country.
    As hard as it is to access psychiatry services, it is even harder to access psychologists.

    I needed help in the past and went to my GP. He referred me to the local mental health services and while I did see a CBT practitioner, it was four months before I saw the psychiatrist, and a further two years for a psychologist. I am fortunate in that I never felt the despair that it seems leads people towards suicide, but for others who are more vulnerable this is an unacceptable delay in providing potentially life-saving treatment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    I wonder if one difference between now and the eighties is that social networking allows people to seem engaged without having any substantive relationship with others. It must be easy to go through the motions, posting on facebook, texting, and so on, without actually feeling any connection with others.


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  • Posts: 5,334 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I am bipolar, I have been on the verge of suicide many times. Luckily there is something that stops me from going through with it. Can't say that will always be the case.
    I can totally understand why some one would go through with it. You are in a dark place and nothing takes precedent over your feelings at the time.
    The level of support for people who have feelings of suicide in Ireland is appalling. Unless you go private, impossible to get counselling, psychotherapy psychiatric care at the time you need it. Pieta house should be funded by government and underserved expanded.
    Its all well and good, saying talk to family and friends buttons perfectly honest, when you are in that dark place you want to talk to a stranger more than a friend.
    Suicide is severely under reported in Ireland.


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