Hard line taken on 'white' sport by the blacks

bmwguy · 08-04-2014 08:59PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

Terribly daft thing to even think of, let alone write out...

Also a pretty daft thing to say.

The debate should be about why enforced quotas do/not work in society, not about 'feeling sorry for yourself' as a white person, completely irrelevant to the discussion and to be honest, a bit contrived.

I'm not feeling sorry for myself, just dont like double standards. You cant discriminate against anyone these days (which I'm fine with) but it seems to be ok for some to limit the influence on whites in this case even if it will weaken the team (and I know a lot about SA rugby, and weaken the team it most certainly will). Then you have the talk about female quotas in government, boardrooms etc... No more reason for it than saying at least 60% of the team have to have big ears in case big eared people feel left out.

J_E · 08-04-2014 09:03PM

bmwguy wrote: »

I'm not feeling sorry for myself, just dont like double standards. You cant discriminate against anyone these days (which I'm fine with) but it seems to be ok for some to limit the influence on whites in this case even if it will weaken the team (and I know a lot about SA rugby, and weaken the team it most certainly will). Then you have the talk about female quotas in government, boardrooms etc... No more reason for it than saying at least 60% of the team have to have big ears in case big eared people feel left out.

Please, spare me. I don't believe in these sorts of forced quotas and I think a discussion should be had, but I in no way feel oppressed as a white person, not even close. Can you even think of an example that being white has disadvantaged you in any way? Come on now. (waiting for the 'reverse racism' posts next...)

sock puppet · 08-04-2014 09:16PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

Please, spare me. I don't believe in these sorts of forced quotas and I think a discussion should be had, but I in no way feel oppressed as a white person, not even close. Can you even think of an example that being white has disadvantaged you in any way? Come on now. (waiting for the 'reverse racism' posts next...)

Auditioning for an interracial lesbian porn role?

J_E · 08-04-2014 09:22PM

sock puppet wrote: »

Auditioning for an interracial lesbian porn role?

Shocking. Let's campaign to ban porn for this travesty. Who's with me! :eek:

bmwguy · 08-04-2014 09:27PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

Please, spare me. I don't believe in these sorts of forced quotas and I think a discussion should be had, but I in no way feel oppressed as a white person, not even close. Can you even think of an example that being white has disadvantaged you in any way? Come on now. (waiting for the 'reverse racism' posts next...)

Well I was called a racist in a former job when I couldnt help a person (i wouldnt sell them part of an item that we sell as a whole and refused to split it and charge less). That person thought he could play the race card to get what he wanted by screaming and shouting saying I would do it for an Irish person, didnt work though but it embarrassed the hell out of me as there were people listening. If you want equality, you get equality, but not 1% more

drunkmonkey · 08-04-2014 09:34PM

bmwguy wrote: »

No more reason for it than saying at least 60% of the team have to have big ears in case big eared people feel left out.

Blessed are the Big Noses:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToYt5SgGDgI

rubadub · 08-04-2014 09:36PM

How do they determine if a player is black or white?

Obama is considered to be black by many people, when his mother is white, so you would expect legally he would be given a 50/50 status, if some law or quota did apply. It always seems to go this way, if a person has a hint of black ancestry they are deemed "non-white". I expect loads of the "white" players could try and trace back roots and find a black granny, like the irish soccer player grannies.

Up until 1994 they had a "pencil test" in SA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil_test_(South_Africa)

The pencil test is a method of assessing whether a person has Afro-textured hair. In the pencil test, a pencil is pushed through the person's hair. How easily it comes out determines whether the person has "passed" or "failed" the test.

This test was used to determine racial identity in South Africa during the apartheid era, distinguishing whites from coloureds and blacks. The test was partially responsible for splitting existing communities and families along perceived racial lines. Its formal authority ended with the end of apartheid in 1994. It remains an important part of South African cultural heritage and a symbol of racism.

Too Tough To Die · 08-04-2014 09:43PM

rubadub wrote: »

How do they determine if a player is black or white?

Obama is considered to be black by many people, when his mother is white, so you would expect legally he would be given a 50/50 status, if some law or quota did apply. It always seems to go this way, if a person has a hint of black ancestry they are deemed "non-white". I expect loads of the "white" players could try and trace back roots and find a black granny, like the irish soccer player grannies.

Up until 1994 they had a "pencil test" in SA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil_test_(South_Africa)

Doesn't have to be black, just non-white, but non-white doesn't sound as good as black in a headline.

J_E · 08-04-2014 09:43PM

bmwguy wrote: »

Well I was called a racist in a former job when I couldnt help a person (i wouldnt sell them part of an item that we sell as a whole and refused to split it and charge less). That person thought he could play the race card to get what he wanted by screaming and shouting saying I would do it for an Irish person, didnt work though but it embarrassed the hell out of me as there were people listening. If you want equality, you get equality, but not 1% more

That's just someone who is a moron. You weren't racially attacked in the same sense. Nobody who is reasonable vouches for people who do that sort of thing, regardless of colour.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 08-04-2014 09:49PM

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Doesn't have to be black, just non-white, but non-white doesn't sound as good as black in a headline.

So could a load of Chinese immigrants in South Africa be picked for the rugby/cricket team and still keep the sports minister happy?

Too Tough To Die · 08-04-2014 09:52PM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

So could a load of Chinese immigrants in South Africa be picked for the rugby/cricket team and still keep the sports minister happy?

I can't answer that.

super_furry · 08-04-2014 09:53PM

Disappointed to see such blatant racism from the South African government. Each man on his merits, not on the colour of his skin.

Nodin · 08-04-2014 10:09PM

crockholm wrote: »

You're a funny ol cat noddy,when people link stories from news sources that you disagree with,you feel like you can dismiss the whole article,

....you can back that up, I trust? Unless you're comparing white power sites to mainstream news media......

diomed · 08-04-2014 10:34PM

I had to check that article to see if it was dated 1st April.

When I was in Zambia in the 1970 the Government introduced Zambianisation - removing non-Zambians from jobs and replacing them with Zambians. Many professional jobs were filled by non-nationals like myself, an accountant.

But white Zambians wanted jobs under the Zambianisation process. The government didn't say it but their thinking was "Zambianisation is jobs for black Zambians".

Blacks are racists too.

Fwiw in 1970s Zambian rugby the wingers were always black. The other 13 players were always white. The black players were fast, the white players were heavier/stronger. It could be amusing when a black winger got the ball on the wing and went on a run. He would be met by the opposing black winger.

crockholm · 08-04-2014 10:44PM

Nodin wrote: »

....you can back that up, I trust? Unless you're comparing white power sites to mainstream news media......

You do everyone here a service when you dismiss a White Power site that distorts or invents stats or POV, yet you also have dismissed kevin Myers,and iirc Rupert Murdoch owned media, and perhaps more-you do have a lot of posts and that would be a lot of trawling.

I wrote it because I have seen you do it Before, not for Point scoring or anything like that.It is just that you seem to collect all your news from newssites that share your own political philosophies.

You asking me to read that is as palatable as me getting you to read Pat Buchannans thoughts.And I did-and how you extrapolated that all afrikaans rugby players were conservative racists from it,I don't know.

And back to the game at hand- Fiji has a large Indian minority population,I haven't Heard of any drive by local govt. to have a quota on ethnic Indians on the team.

Their plan sounds about as sensible as having the U.S. Govt. mandating that as caucasians make up circa 70% of the population, 7/10 basketballers on the Court at any one time must be White, in the NBA- Think of the excitement.

The quotas are a terrible idea, but what would you expect from a terrible government.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 08-04-2014 10:53PM

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I can't answer that.

But you said that the minister wanted non-white players to be picked.Seeing as Chinese people aren't white it clearly should be enough to comply with the rule, but I think everybody knows that if the South African rugby team fielded a load of Chinese immigrants the sports minister wouldn't be satisfied.

Its clearly a daft ruling, and completely unfair on the black players in South Africa as as soon as one were to have a bad match they would be open to suspicions of being picked as a token gesture. In 2008 Charl Langeveldt refused to play for the South African Cricket team due to speculation he was being selected due to the colour of his skin.

Nodin · 08-04-2014 10:55PM

crockholm wrote: »

You do everyone here a service when you dismiss a White Power site that distorts or invents stats or POV, yet you also have dismissed kevin Myers,and iirc Rupert Murdoch owned media, and perhaps more-you do have a lot of posts and that would be a lot of trawling.
.

I can't recall dismissing "Murdoch owned media". I've gone through Myers in detail on occasion, pointing out exactly where hes wrong. I might add that Myers writes opinion pieces, not factual ones. If you want to explain how there isn't institutional racism present in SA rugby, I'm waiting to here it.

http://mg.co.za/article/2012-11-22-is-south-african-rugby-racist
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1566765/Black-and-white-reality-of-South-African-rugby.html
http://www.panapress.com/Racism-scandal-rocks-South-African-rugby--12-489931-34-lang2-index.html

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/kwazulu-natal/racism-claims-for-two-rugby-clubs-1.1305848#.U0RwE5NOPDA

And theres a lot more where that came from......

crockholm wrote: »

And back to the game at hand- Fiji has a large Indian minority population,I haven't Heard of any drive by local govt. to have a quota on ethnic Indians on the team..

Wtf has that to do with anything?

crockholm wrote: »

Their plan sounds about as sensible as having the U.S. Govt. mandating that as caucasians make up circa 70% of the population, 7/10 basketballers on the Court at any one time must be White, in the NBA- Think of the excitement.

The quotas are a terrible idea, but what would you expect from a terrible government.

The usual clueless comparisons....every thread, every time.

Steodonn · 08-04-2014 11:21PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Surely if you wanted a sustainable situation whereby more blacks play rugby then the logical thing would be to fund the development of the sport in black areas where it traditionally didn't have a presence? You can't simply decide to take a hatchet to national teams across the board in the hope it will encourage black participation at a grassroots level. To be honest this is the sort of sh*t that's going to do nothing but promote and exacerbate division in South Africa, it's a far cry from the ANC's original call of creating an inclusive society.

This ways cheaper

crockholm · 08-04-2014 11:21PM

Nodin wrote: »

I can't recall dismissing "Murdoch owned media". I've gone through Myers in detail on occasion, pointing out exactly where hes wrong. I might add that Myers writes opinion pieces, not factual ones. If you want to explain how there isn't institutional racism present in SA rugby, I'm waiting to here it.

http://mg.co.za/article/2012-11-22-is-south-african-rugby-racist
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1566765/Black-and-white-reality-of-South-African-rugby.html
http://www.panapress.com/Racism-scandal-rocks-South-African-rugby--12-489931-34-lang2-index.html

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/kwazulu-natal/racism-claims-for-two-rugby-clubs-1.1305848#.U0RwE5NOPDA

And theres a lot more where that came from......

Wtf has that to do with anything?

The usual clueless comparisons....every thread, every time.

OK nodin, tell me what White players you would replace,and which black players would you put in their stead? Since you are convinced of the institutional racism that holds these lads back...................Go on now!

Fiji is a rugby playing country with a large minority that doesnt need to Place quotas.

Only useless if you cant get your head around the concept.Quotas and sport don't mix well-if that needs further dumbing down for you,I'll do my best.

Nodin · 08-04-2014 11:29PM

crockholm wrote: »

OK nodin, tell me what White players you would replace,and which black players would you put in their stead? Since you are convinced of the institutional racism that holds these lads back...................Go on now!.

....but there is institutional racism in south African rugby. And if you read some of the articles, you'll see names mentioned.

crockholm wrote: »

Fiji is a rugby playing country with a large minority that doesnt need to Place quotas.!.

A rather stupid comment. You might as well have picked Iceland. Just because another country doesn't have a problem doesn't mean South Africa is in the same position. Just because another country doesn't acknowledge a problem doesn't mean it doesn't have one.

crockholm wrote: »

Only useless if you cant get your head around the concept..

I'm afraid it's you that seems to be a bit lost. Was the USA run on apartheid lines with the white majority suppressed by a black minority? Is basketball the sport most popular with the conservative black community most opposed to integration with whites?

crockholm · 08-04-2014 11:52PM

Nodin wrote: »

....but there is institutional racism in south African rugby. And if you read some of the articles, you'll see names mentioned.

A rather stupid comment. You might as well have picked Iceland. Just because another country doesn't have a problem doesn't mean South Africa is in the same position. Just because another country doesn't acknowledge a problem doesn't mean it doesn't have one.

I'm afraid it's you that seems to be a bit lost. Was the USA run on apartheid lines with the white majority suppressed by a black minority? Is basketball the sport most popular with the conservative black community most opposed to integration with whites?

I did read some of them,dated 2003 and 2007-and the fact that you can't answer just proves you don't know jack shyt about the game but only jizzed in excitement at the thought of racism.

And that is the thing! Who says SA has a problem with rugby? Some jackass race-baiter of a sports minister? Give the black schools the facilities to play rugby at a higher level and let the players themselves get to the standard. Not parachute some dude in there coz he is black,Jeez,it ain't rocket science.

It isn't apartheid,it hasn't been for a long time,but feel free to use it as a crutch when your own lack of knowledge keeps you hobbled.

Ps, re-basketball the sport.........intergration with Whites- you might be on to something there.53% of black chicagoans live in communities of over 90% black residents. 0% of White or hispanic chicagoans live in communities of over 90% White or hispanic residents.

I look forward to the day you give those guys from West Garfield Park a piece of your mind.

Goodnight Nodin.:)

Nodin · 08-04-2014 11:58PM

crockholm wrote: »

I did read some of them(..........) Nodin.

The usual selective nonsense. It's an acknowledged fact there is institutional racism in parts of South African society. The only actual debate is how to address it.

whats the point · 09-04-2014 12:08AM

Nodin wrote: »

The usual selective nonsense. It's an acknowledged fact there is institutional racism in parts of South African society. The only actual debate is how to address it.

The only institutional racism in SA now is against the white population, are you going to address that?

wicklowstevo · 09-04-2014 12:15AM

Aw thats some BS to be fair , who is funding the integration of non rugby school kids into the irish underage set up.7

if you are good enough and you have the drive you ll stand out from the crowd simple as that.

artificially changing the make up of a national team on crazy racial grounds will hurt sport in the long term.

what next a token white guy in the nba ? a kerry man in the hurling all stars ?

affirmative action may have been an issue ten years ago now race or social background etc is usually results in some one who doesnt deserve it getting something that some one else should have gotten.

Nodin · 09-04-2014 04:51AM

whats the point wrote: »

The only institutional racism in SA now is against the white population, are you going to address that?

That's proven, is it?

Killer Wench · 09-04-2014 05:55AM

Let's keep Obama and Affirmative Action out of this discussion. Separate and distinct contexts from what is being proposed in SA.

y0ssar1an22 · 09-04-2014 08:00AM

1 of England's greatest ever cricketers (kevin pietersen) on the quota system:

'I was dropped because the quota system was brought into South African cricket to positively discriminate in favour of 'players of colour' and to fast-track the racial integration of cricket in the country," he said. "To me, every single person in this world needs to be treated exactly the same and that should have included me, as a promising 20-year-old cricketer. If you do well you should play on merit. That goes for any person of any colour. It was heartbreaking.
"Even though it was very hard for me to take in at the time, it turned out it was the best thing that could have happened'

He subsequently moved to, and played for England.

Gyalist · 09-04-2014 08:49AM

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

1 of England's greatest ever cricketers (kevin pietersen) on the quota system:

'I was dropped because the quota system was brought into South African cricket to positively discriminate in favour of 'players of colour' and to fast-track the racial integration of cricket in the country," he said. "To me, every single person in this world needs to be treated exactly the same and that should have included me, as a promising 20-year-old cricketer. If you do well you should play on merit. That goes for any person of any colour. It was heartbreaking.
"Even though it was very hard for me to take in at the time, it turned out it was the best thing that could have happened'

He subsequently moved to, and played for England.

Kevin Petersen's self-serving story has long since been debunked. Even England finally became fed-up with his behaviour and got rid of him.

seagull · 09-04-2014 01:54PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

Please, spare me. I don't believe in these sorts of forced quotas and I think a discussion should be had, but I in no way feel oppressed as a white person, not even close. Can you even think of an example that being white has disadvantaged you in any way? Come on now. (waiting for the 'reverse racism' posts next...)

Yes. I studied in a field where the majority of jobs are with government at some level. I finished university at a time when it was impossible for a white male to get a position in any state or semi-state organisation, and had to change field. The official definition of affirmative action was that if two candidates with the same qualifications applied for a job, the one from the more disadvantaged background should get the job. The reality was somewhat different. I have coloured friends who weren't black enough. Strangely enough, they've also left SA.

seagull · 09-04-2014 01:58PM

Nodin wrote: »

The usual selective nonsense. It's an acknowledged fact there is institutional racism in parts of South African society. The only actual debate is how to address it.

Yes. The ANC would dearly like to do a Mugabe.

Hard line taken on 'white' sport by the blacks

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