Hard line taken on 'white' sport by the blacks

Absoluvely · 08-04-2014 11:27AM

osarusan wrote: »

Agree with all of this. They are going about it wrong.

I just mean that, 'f**k that, pick the best players regardless of colour' isn't a solution.

There is no team-picking policy that will cure the statistical inequalities of health/wealth/education between races in South Africa.

There's still no reason to have race-based selections though so selecting the best players is the logical method.

KungPao · 08-04-2014 11:35AM

I think the whole team should be black.

Absoluvely · 08-04-2014 11:37AM

KungPao wrote: »

I think the whole team should be black.

You're thinking of New Zealand

drunkmonkey · 08-04-2014 01:48PM

KungPao wrote: »

I think the whole team should be black.

Zebo or Mr T. Black?

Nodin · 08-04-2014 02:13PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Good auld racism just when you thought it ok to be white now South Africa want at least 60% of players to be black in sports like rugby.
It's as if the government there is fostering racism. Everyone should have the opportunity to play sports, if the majority are the same colour what about it as long as everybody had a chance.
.............

Rugby is notoriously associated with conservative Afrikaaner attitudes. If you bothered your arse to read the article.

"This is according to resolutions taken by the Department of Sport following a meeting between Minister of Sport Fikile Mbalula and the provincial MECs for sport on Saturday. They discussed a report, released last week, on the status of transformation in the most popular sports , rugby, cricket, netball, athletics and football.
Mbalula said the group decided to increase the 50/50 quota system to 60% representation after noting a "lack of willingness in implementing transformation, especially the enforcement of quotas".
Failure to implement the new quotas would result in withdrawal of any form of funding and support to federations and sport bodies, he said.
"[We will] withdraw the national colours of any federation that is hell-bent on the current set-up and status quo."
Mbalula said his department would block sponsorship of any sports association that was hostile to transformation. Bidding for and hosting sports events would become illegal without government approval."

Context is a great man. Now one might debate whether his approach is the correct one, but its certainly not the simplistic crap you trotted out in the OP.

seagull · 08-04-2014 02:19PM

If you ask the black players, they are amongst the loudest opponents of this. They don't want to be considered to be in the side as a token. They want to be seen as being there because they've earned their place.

keeponhurling · 08-04-2014 02:28PM

How about the quota in Ireland, a certain % of the national team must have been to national school, and those from fee-paying schools need to be capped.

It makes the Irish rugby team more representative of the overall population.

greenheart · 08-04-2014 02:34PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JknOan-HoSA

BBC 3 documentary about white slums in South Africa

elefant · 08-04-2014 02:35PM

Only 40% of you are allowed be white on this team.

I don't know the realities everyday South Africa, but regardless this sounds like a horribly backwards step to be taking.

Karl Stein · 08-04-2014 02:39PM

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

If your good enough you get selected, **** the color of your skin. This goes for all walks of life and also applies to gender.

So institutional racism and sexism is a myth?

Is this where you live?

Lol.

LeinsterDub · 08-04-2014 02:43PM

keeponhurling wrote: »

How about the quota in Ireland, a certain 5 of the national team must have been to national school, and those from fee-paying schools need to be capped.

It makes the Irish rugby team more representative of the overall population.

Of course you'll fully support that 5 of the county teams players went to fee-paying schools.

Push Pop · 08-04-2014 02:55PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Good auld racism just when you thought it ok to be white now South Africa want at least 60% of players to be black in sports like rugby.
It's as if the government there is fostering racism. Everyone should have the opportunity to play sports, if the majority are the same colour what about it as long as everybody had a chance.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/04/07/hard-line-taken-on-white-sport

Anyway AH, how do you suggest we get Eammon civil rights Gilmore to respond?

I wonder how the All Blacks will feel. I suppose with a watered down team, we have a chance to beat them even without the mighty BOD.

suicide_circus · 08-04-2014 02:55PM

OP, it's spelt b-l-i-c-k

Too Tough To Die · 08-04-2014 03:03PM

60% non white, not black exactly. Good rule imo.

J_E · 08-04-2014 03:10PM

Any sort of forced quota is never going to work and just isn't a real solution to an issue. Look at the trouble the female quota on panels in the UK caused. It's an artificial solution that just creates all sorts of problems of its own.

D1stant · 08-04-2014 03:47PM

Mod

This thread failed to make the quota of 4 posts from Lesbian disabled dwarfs, and must be locked now

Sorry about that

crockholm · 08-04-2014 04:12PM

Nodin wrote: »

Rugby is notoriously associated with conservative Afrikaaner attitudes. If you bothered your arse to read the article.

"This is according to resolutions taken by the Department of Sport following a meeting between Minister of Sport Fikile Mbalula and the provincial MECs for sport on Saturday. They discussed a report, released last week, on the status of transformation in the most popular sports , rugby, cricket, netball, athletics and football.
Mbalula said the group decided to increase the 50/50 quota system to 60% representation after noting a "lack of willingness in implementing transformation, especially the enforcement of quotas".
Failure to implement the new quotas would result in withdrawal of any form of funding and support to federations and sport bodies, he said.
"[We will] withdraw the national colours of any federation that is hell-bent on the current set-up and status quo."
Mbalula said his department would block sponsorship of any sports association that was hostile to transformation. Bidding for and hosting sports events would become illegal without government approval."

Context is a great man. Now one might debate whether his approach is the correct one, but its certainly not the simplistic crap you trotted out in the OP.

Noddy ol bean your first sentence is Epic in it's dopiness. Was it a memo from a joint SF/ANC love in that decided that rugby is somehow twinned with notorious conservative afrikaaners?

And even if it were,is being conservative and afrikaaner some kind of crime or something to be ashamed of ? (actually,thats probably on the to do list of the ANC)

This is just the ANC flexing their muscles and reassuring their dumbsh1t ignorant supporters that whitey will be kept in check and given a timely reminder as to who runs the show.

Rugby has similar anomolies with regards whom plays the game in other countries too-
In Ireland (Rep.) the elite players largely come from fee paying schools,but if a player is good enough,they will play for Ireland.
In Ulster it is largely a Unionist affiliated population that plays it,though with an increasing amount of nationalists.

In England it's played in the South predominantly (ditto for france).

If they want more black lads on the team,they can pay for the facilities at black schools and maybe spend less on mr.Zuma's compound, but I guess it's just easier to kick a minority Group instead.

Guy:Incognito · 08-04-2014 04:38PM

Push Pop wrote: »

I wonder how the All Blacks will feel. I suppose with a watered down team, we have a chance to beat them even without the mighty BOD.

They'll probably be ok with it, unless South Africa annexes New Zealand and forces the rule on them too.

strobe · 08-04-2014 04:57PM

osarusan wrote: »

The problem is not the selection in many cases. It is the liklihood of the system in place favouring one group over another.

In South Africa, a higher proportion of white children will go to fee-paying schools than black children. These schools will come with better rugby facilities and coaches than free schools. By aligning rugby with wealth in this way, it makes it unlikely that poorer children will be exposed to the same quality of practice and training, and consequently won't be as good. It is much the same with cricket in South Africa.

so a coach can say that he will pick his best team, no matter what colour they are. That's all well and good, but it doesn't address the underlying problem.

Then the quota should be based on how poor you are, not how black you are. Not that I think that should be done either.

seagull · 08-04-2014 05:53PM

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

60% non white, not black exactly. Good rule imo.

So you'd be fine with a rule that 40% of the SA soccer team should be white?

bmwguy · 08-04-2014 06:06PM

What is "positive discrimination"? Discrimination against whites? Is that seen to be ok? Its getting tough to be a white, straight male these days with all these quotas keeping the best and brightest out of positions where they are the outstanding candidate.

ScumLord · 08-04-2014 06:15PM

What happens if they get they're 60/40 split and they're in the middle of a game and have to make a substitution but don't have the right amount of white or black players to keep everything 60/40? Do they throw the game or break the law back home?

Will it be enough to fill your black quote but leave them most of them on the bench or will the government be dictating what players the team has to play and when?

It might be possible but S.Africa can say goodbye to winning rugby matches.

P_1 · 08-04-2014 06:17PM

I despise when sport gets politicized. Lets have a look at the Springbok squad that was named for their match against New Zealand in Soweto last October shall we?

FB 15 Zane Kirchner
RW 14 Willie le Roux
OC 13 JJ Engelbrecht
IC 12 Jean de Villiers (c)
LW 11 Bryan Habana
FH 10 Morné Steyn
SH 9 Fourie du Preez
N8 8 Duane Vermeulen
OF 7 Willem Alberts
BF 6 Francois Louw
RL 5 Juandré Kruger
LL 4 Eben Etzebeth
TP 3 Jannie du Plessis
HK 2 Bismarck du Plessis
LP 1 Tendai Mtawarira
Replacements:
HK 16 Adriaan Strauss
PR 17 Gurthrö Steenkamp
PR 18 Coenie Oosthuizen
LK 19 Franco van der Merwe
N8 20 Siya Kolisi
SH 21 Ruan Pienaar
FH 22 Pat Lambie
CE 23 Jan Serfontein

Now those 23 men weren't selected because of the colour of their skin. They were selected because Heyneke Meyer thought that they were the best players in their particular positions at the time.

Nodin · 08-04-2014 06:35PM

crockholm wrote: »

Noddy ol bean your first sentence is Epic in it's dopiness. Was it a memo from a joint SF/ANC love in that decided that rugby is somehow twinned with notorious conservative afrikaaners?

And even if it were,is being conservative and afrikaaner some kind of crime or something to be ashamed of ?.

Conservative as in racist pro-apartheid. I like the way you realise I'm more than likely right and then try to cover yourself in the second paragraph.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/south-africa-racism-rugby

crockholm wrote: »

If they want more black lads on the team,they can pay for the facilities at black schools and maybe spend less on mr.Zuma's compound, but I guess it's just easier to kick a minority Group instead.

Its interesting that the first time you talk about minorities in a protective manner, its this lot. The ones with the money that don't need protecting, supposedly being "oppressed" by non-whites.

P_1 · 08-04-2014 06:41PM

Forcing quotas on teams will do very little to spread the sports to non-traditional areas. Sending in coaches and spending money on facilities in the non-traditional areas will so so much more but that's a long-term solution that doesn't temd to deliver the quick results that populist politicians tend to look for.

crockholm · 08-04-2014 06:56PM

Nodin wrote: »

Conservative as in racist pro-apartheid. I like the way you realise I'm more than likely right and then try to cover yourself in the second paragraph.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/south-africa-racism-rugby

Its interesting that the first time you talk about minorities in a protective manner, its this lot. The ones with the money that don't need protecting, supposedly being "oppressed" by non-whites.

Now all you are doing is showing your own deeply held prejudices by equating conservatives with racists,or even afrikaaners with racists,either way wrong.
I'm sorry that it comes across as such,but there is absolutely no way that I Think you are right.Not at all at all.

Again your last paragraph betrays your prejudices, your mask is slipping.They are a minority,however much that disgusts you.Perhaps you could use some lessons in cultural sensitivity

Nodin · 08-04-2014 07:12PM

crockholm wrote: »

Now all (..................) sensitivity

More nonsense? Go read the article, you might be more informed.

J_E · 08-04-2014 07:15PM

crockholm wrote: »

This is just the ANC flexing their muscles and reassuring their dumbsh1t ignorant supporters that whitey will be kept in check and given a timely reminder as to who runs the show.

Terribly daft thing to even think of, let alone write out...

bmwguy wrote: »

What is "positive discrimination"? Discrimination against whites? Is that seen to be ok? Its getting tough to be a white, straight male these days with all these quotas keeping the best and brightest out of positions where they are the outstanding candidate.

Also a pretty daft thing to say.

The debate should be about why enforced quotas do/not work in society, not about 'feeling sorry for yourself' as a white person, completely irrelevant to the discussion and to be honest, a bit contrived.

Too Tough To Die · 08-04-2014 07:20PM

seagull wrote: »

So you'd be fine with a rule that 40% of the SA soccer team should be white?

No, but Bafana Bafana were never a symbol of Apartheid.

crockholm · 08-04-2014 08:15PM

Nodin wrote: »

More nonsense? Go read the article, you might be more informed.

You're a funny ol cat noddy,when people link stories from news sources that you disagree with,you feel like you can dismiss the whole article,yet you link to websites like the Guardian and salon as examples?

nonsense indeed.

I can see your bias towards afrikaaners,you don't know much about rugby,yet here you are.The plan by the ANC is a dumb one,a very divisive one,that will only do harm.

That is the bottom line,not some bigoted guff about Afrikaaners

Hard line taken on 'white' sport by the blacks

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