Hard line taken on 'white' sport by the blacks

drunkmonkey · 08-04-2014 09:39AM #1

Good auld racism just when you thought it ok to be white now South Africa want at least 60% of players to be black in sports like rugby.
It's as if the government there is fostering racism. Everyone should have the opportunity to play sports, if the majority are the same colour what about it as long as everybody had a chance.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/04/07/hard-line-taken-on-white-sport

Anyway AH, how do you suggest we get Eammon civil rights Gilmore to respond?

Dravokivich · 08-04-2014 09:48AM

Well, we need a new outside centre. Might work out in our favour.

D1stant · 08-04-2014 09:50AM

Years pass, and the pigs start to resemble humans, as they walk upright, carry whips, and wear clothes. The Seven Commandments are abridged to a single phrase: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

turnikett1 · 08-04-2014 09:56AM

Pretty sure this is called "positive action" as in being racist in a nice way. I think it's stupid to be honest, if black lads don't want to play rugby in South Africa then don't force the team to have a watered down version of it for the sake of public nicities!

I could be completely wrong though. Maybe it is a good thing. I do not know.

Hande hoche! · 08-04-2014 09:58AM

I'm sure they will add some White and Indian players to the football team...

Valetta · 08-04-2014 10:03AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Good auld racism just when you thought it ok to be white now South Africa want at least 60% of players to be black in sports like rugby.
It's as if the government there is fostering racism. Everyone should have the opportunity to play sports, if the majority are the same colour what about it as long as everybody had a chance.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/04/07/hard-line-taken-on-white-sport

Anyway AH, how do you suggest we get Eammon civil rights Gilmore to respond?

Sure we want quotas for women in politics.

Not that I agree with either, but I don't see any difference and don't see it as racism.

Freddie Dodge · 08-04-2014 10:19AM

In most injust situations, when the pendulum swings, it rarely stops in the middle.

My OHs father had to close his computer repair business there because he couldn't employ more than 50% black people in his business or pay the approx €25k pa fine.

He was the only employee.

The ANC need to be out of power there after 20 years. They have become corrupt.

If this is true, it'll ruin one of the greatest rugby teams in the world.

Guy:Incognito · 08-04-2014 10:19AM

Valetta wrote: »

Sure we want quotas for women in politics.

Not that I agree with either, but I don't see any difference and don't see it as racism.

What if your good enough but they have no "white" places left in the squad?

Wossack · 08-04-2014 10:22AM

be interesting to see how this goes for them, in something as quantifiable as sport

08-04-2014 10:25AM

"The blacks"? Jesse Jackson must have lobbied hard for that.

Wonder if Lenny Henry will make a trip over and a Sport Relief piece?

FTA69 · 08-04-2014 10:30AM

Surely if you wanted a sustainable situation whereby more blacks play rugby then the logical thing would be to fund the development of the sport in black areas where it traditionally didn't have a presence? You can't simply decide to take a hatchet to national teams across the board in the hope it will encourage black participation at a grassroots level. To be honest this is the sort of sh*t that's going to do nothing but promote and exacerbate division in South Africa, it's a far cry from the ANC's original call of creating an inclusive society.

Absoluvely · 08-04-2014 10:32AM

Valetta wrote: »

Sure we want quotas for women in politics.

Not that I agree with either, but I don't see any difference and don't see it as racism.

Implementing racial quotas in the rugby team would require legally racially classifying people in order to determine their legal rights. It's racism.

It's the same with sexual quotas in politics. You're determining an individual's eligibility for a position based on that individual's sex. It's sexism.

What I want to know is how they're going to classify people as white or black. Is there going to be someone employed as a "sorter" to sort people into the categories based on how they look? Are they going to use fancy equipment to measure the average optical reflectivity of the individual's skin?

Expect a lot of Springboks wearing fake tan at next year's World Cup.

y0ssar1an22 · 08-04-2014 10:36AM

I think its all bull$hit. If your good enough you get selected, **** the color of your skin. This goes for all walks of life and also applies to gender.

Regarding the quotas for women in Irish politics....what about being democratically elected? Does that not matter any more? Seems like in the endeavour for equality we might move further from democracy and closer to something else.

upstairs for coffee · 08-04-2014 10:37AM

Would there anything to be said for positive discrimination or affirmative action...

Guy:Incognito · 08-04-2014 10:38AM

Absoluvely wrote: »

Implementing racial quotas in the rugby team would require legally racially classifying people in order to determine their legal rights. It's racism.

It's the same with sexual quotas in politics. You're determining an individual's eligibility for a position based on that individual's sex. It's sexism.

What I want to know is how they're going to classify people as white or black. Is there going to be someone employed as a "sorter" to sort people into the categories based on how they look? Are they going to use fancy equipment to measure the average optical reflectivity of the individual's skin?

Expect a lot of Springboks wearing fake take at next year's World Cup.

https://www.dulux.co.uk/colours/ ?

Absoluvely · 08-04-2014 10:40AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

https://www.dulux.co.uk/colours/ ?

Dulux don't seem to do much in the line of browns. The racists.

Absoluvely · 08-04-2014 10:54AM

I would also like to point out that racial and sexual quotas are examples of apartheid.

Minister of Sport Fikile Mbalula wants to go back to the good old days of racial apartheid in South Africa.

osarusan · 08-04-2014 10:55AM

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

I think its all bull$hit. If your good enough you get selected, **** the color of your skin. This goes for all walks of life and also applies to gender.

The problem is not the selection in many cases. It is the liklihood of the system in place favouring one group over another.

In South Africa, a higher proportion of white children will go to fee-paying schools than black children. These schools will come with better rugby facilities and coaches than free schools. By aligning rugby with wealth in this way, it makes it unlikely that poorer children will be exposed to the same quality of practice and training, and consequently won't be as good. It is much the same with cricket in South Africa.

so a coach can say that he will pick his best team, no matter what colour they are. That's all well and good, but it doesn't address the underlying problem.

BraziliaNZ · 08-04-2014 10:56AM

60% bleedin' northsiders in the Irish rugby team please (Clontarf, Howth etc don't count)

gramar · 08-04-2014 10:57AM

It sounds like they've been advised by someone from the BBC comedy panel committee.

I'd say black South Africans who are supposed to benefit from this sort of measure are embarrassed by it.

KungPao · 08-04-2014 11:03AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

https://www.dulux.co.uk/colours/ ?

It think it was a valid point by the poster. I've heard that in Brazil there are places reserved/grants available for Negros doing college courses. There there are many shades from the whitest of white to the blackest of black, but some people who would generally describe themselves as "white" or mixed, suddenly become "black" to qualify.

Although in SA I don't think there are many mixed race people?

Dravokivich · 08-04-2014 11:04AM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

60% bleedin' northsiders in the Irish rugby team please (Clontarf, Howth etc don't count)

What about Norn Iron?

turnikett1 · 08-04-2014 11:04AM

KungPao wrote: »

Although in SA I don't think there are many mixed race people?

According to Wiki, 10% of South Africans are "coloured" ie mixed

Guy:Incognito · 08-04-2014 11:05AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

What about Norn Iron?

Its north of the liffey.

BraziliaNZ · 08-04-2014 11:07AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

What about Norn Iron?

I forgot they existed

Guy:Incognito · 08-04-2014 11:10AM

osarusan wrote: »

The problem is not the selection in many cases. It is the liklihood of the system in place favouring one group over another.

In South Africa, a higher proportion of white children will go to fee-paying schools than black children. These schools will come with better rugby facilities and coaches than free schools. By aligning rugby with wealth in this way, it makes it unlikely that poorer children will be exposed to the same quality of practice and training, and consequently won't be as good. It is much the same with cricket in South Africa.

so a coach can say that he will pick his best team, no matter what colour they are. That's all well and good, but it doesn't address the underlying problem.

The policy is not just about rugby but private schools can charge what they like. Such is life. The government is free to fund Rugby better in state schools if it wants to give poorer people access and in turn have them in the national team.

08-04-2014 11:10AM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

Would there anything to be said for positive discrimination or affirmative action...

Positive discrimination? As in fighting racism with "good" racism

looksee · 08-04-2014 11:15AM

osarusan wrote: »

The problem is not the selection in many cases. It is the liklihood of the system in place favouring one group over another.

In South Africa, a higher proportion of white children will go to fee-paying schools than black children. These schools will come with better rugby facilities and coaches than free schools. By aligning rugby with wealth in this way, it makes it unlikely that poorer children will be exposed to the same quality of practice and training, and consequently won't be as good. It is much the same with cricket in South Africa.

so a coach can say that he will pick his best team, no matter what colour they are. That's all well and good, but it doesn't address the underlying problem.

So, as has already been said, the government provides more training facilities for young black people to get them interested in the sport, rather than starting at the top.

As for who is 'black' or 'coloured', my understanding is that if you were mostly white with a tiny percentage of black ancestry you were considered black/coloured. If you were mostly black with a tiny percentage of white ancestry, you were also considered black/coloured. And the whole business of being 'coloured' is a minefield of opinion and potential for giving and taking offence.

08-04-2014 11:17AM

osarusan wrote: »

The problem is not the selection in many cases. It is the liklihood of the system in place favouring one group over another.

In South Africa, a higher proportion of white children will go to fee-paying schools than black children. These schools will come with better rugby facilities and coaches than free schools. By aligning rugby with wealth in this way, it makes it unlikely that poorer children will be exposed to the same quality of practice and training, and consequently won't be as good. It is much the same with cricket in South Africa.

so a coach can say that he will pick his best team, no matter what colour they are. That's all well and good, but it doesn't address the underlying problem.

Then That's an issue with the schools not senior rugby should we only pick a certain number of player from black rock college, Christians, prez etc because they have better facility's than other schools

rubadub · 08-04-2014 11:19AM

Valetta wrote: »

Sure we want quotas for women in politics.

Lots don't want this, just like they would not want a law introduced forcing hospital to have say 40% of nurses being male, or forcing creches to have male quotas.

I wonder if the Jamaican relay team would consider a white quota.

osarusan · 08-04-2014 11:23AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The government is free to fund Rugby better in state schools if it wants to give poorer people access and in turn have them in the national team.

looksee wrote: »

So, as has already been said, the government provides more training facilities for young black people to get them interested in the sport, rather than starting at the top.

Madelyn Juicy Victory wrote: »

Then That's an issue with the schools not senior rugby

Agree with all of this. They are going about it wrong.

I just mean that, 'f**k that, pick the best players regardless of colour' isn't a solution.

Hard line taken on 'white' sport by the blacks

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