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Gym Culture, Bodybuilding and Eating Disorders

13

Comments

  • #62
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    But they would have went from burning 3-4k calaries per day with training. They then stop but only tone down the food slightly. When I left my rugby school the amount of lads that went from pure muscle to huge lard sacks in two years was impressive.

    Who the hell burns 3-4 thousand calories a day? That seems like an awful lot for any athlete. Anyway its the bigger bulky guys that would be more likely to get fat as they get older. They've just more mass.


  • #63
    Spunge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    When i stop lifting i lose so much mass. My calories drops like 1000 if i dont have the dedication to eat all that extra food. ii cant eat that much.


  • #64
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,030 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Daveysil15 wrote: »
    Who the hell burns 3-4 thousand calories a day? That seems like an awful lot for any athlete. Anyway its the bigger bulky guys that would be more likely to get fat as they get older. They've just more mass.

    It would appear I'm not wrong even though it was off the top of my head.

    I've gotten heavily into daily training recently and I've had to up my daily intake to well over 2k per day to not lose weight. And I wouldn't be a professional anything.


  • #65
    daRobot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭daRobot


    Heath culture is great. Honestly, it's about time here people started looking after themselves.

    But the amount of guys in their 20's who are juicing, is really worrying. It's totally unnecessary, as you can get in incredible shape without steroids, and the bizarre thing is that it's often really young guys who have a load of testosterone flowing through their veins anyway.

    Not as bad as Swansea though. Was there about 18 months ago for a weekend, and the only thing crazier than the amount of fights we saw, was the insane the amount of gear heads there.


  • #66
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    I think unfortunately whats happening in Ireland is similar to what has happened in the USA where there decline or shift in the middle ground of 'average' but fairly healthy, towards a either extremely fit/body conscious at one end and those that have given up on looking after themselves at all.

    In terms of practical strength I wonder how useful some of this gym built muscle is having done physical work (continuous but not large individual weights) with guys that are fairly skinny that just never got tired but who would have huge veins instead of bulk.

    Muscle density definitely plays a factor in functional strength. If you've ever seen some of the world-class arm wrestlers out there, you would see that a lot of them actually have pretty slim arms but are incredibly strong!

    There's a video showing it here.

    This doesn't mean that you won't gain a lot of functional strength through traditional body-building. It's just a different form of training with different results.


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  • #67
    beks101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    I've dated so many guys who are fitness/diet/image obsessed, it always used to amaze me. I'd be sitting there across from them on the first date hearing about how all humans can't digest meat and are meant to be vegan, or how carbs are evil or how yoga is actually a great form of strength training or about the 45 mile adventure race he was planning on doing next week.

    Just on a romantic level, it was always a turn-off. I naturally would be attracted to athletic men anyway, I like to stay fit myself and keep an eye on the diet, but for that to be the very essence of a person's being is just boring beyond words to me.

    What about selling yourself on your sense of humour, or intelligence, or interesting insights into the world around you, or love for travel or whatever?

    I get the commitment and discipline involved in maintaining a high level of fitness and health, but it seems to have morphed into image obsession and one upmanship and some weird pissing contest for so many people, as opposed to it being about simply staying healthy and then getting on with your life outside of that. It's a weird thing


  • #68
    poundapunnet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭poundapunnet


    I'd say it could definitely feed into disordered thinking and unfortunately is unlikely to raise the same red flags for men as for women. If a woman was spending hours at the gym several days a week or dropping and gaining weight at the rate some men do people would be concerned. I'm not saying they have an eating disorder, but if you look up some of the comments celebrities like Christopher Bale and Chris Pratt have made about their attitudes to and methods of losing and gaining weight and try and imagine a female celebrity making those comments you'll get the gist of the double standard.

    The other thing is that women are likely to be a bit more skeptical of media presentations of unrealistic bodies than men because there's a longer history of those images being aimed at them and of so much emphasis being put on their looks, plus they're more likely to feel able to talk to their friends or someone else if they feel they're losing control of the situation


  • #69
    Spunge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    Muscle density definitely plays a factor in functional strength. If you've ever seen some of the world-class arm wrestlers out there, you would see that a lot of them actually have pretty slim arms but are incredibly strong!

    There's a video showing it here.

    This doesn't mean that you won't gain a lot of functional strength through traditional body-building. It's just a different form of training with different results.

    But world class powerlifters generally have a lot of muscle mass. (with a lot of fat)


  • #70
    Sealow
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21 ✭Sealow


    beks101 wrote: »
    I've dated so many guys who are fitness/diet/image obsessed, it always used to amaze me. I'd be sitting there across from them on the first date hearing about how all humans can't digest meat and are meant to be vegan, or how carbs are evil or how yoga is actually a great form of strength training or about the 45 mile adventure race he was planning on doing next week.

    Just on a romantic level, it was always a turn-off. I naturally would be attracted to athletic men anyway, I like to stay fit myself and keep an eye on the diet, but for that to be the very essence of a person's being is just boring beyond words to me.

    What about selling yourself on your sense of humour, or intelligence, or interesting insights into the world around you, or love for travel or whatever?

    I get the commitment and discipline involved in maintaining a high level of fitness and health, but it seems to have morphed into image obsession and one upmanship and some weird pissing contest for so many people, as opposed to it being about simply staying healthy and then getting on with your life outside of that. It's a weird thing

    Maybe they weren't trying to sell themselves. Maybe they were just being themselves.


  • #71
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    Spunge wrote: »
    But world class powerlifters generally have a lot of muscle mass. (with a lot of fat)

    Powerlifters also perform a greater variety of exercises than professional arm-wrestlers ever would, leading to a much greater size, but whilst still retaining that high muscle density.


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  • #72
    beks101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    Sealow wrote: »
    Maybe they weren't trying to sell themselves. Maybe they were just being themselves.

    Well yeah, that's kind of what I meant. Their whole personas built around this stuff, whereas to me it's just something I do, like my job. I find it a bit boring after a certain point.


  • #73
    Sealow
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21 ✭Sealow


    Spunge wrote: »
    But world class powerlifters generally have a lot of muscle mass. (with a lot of fat)

    Powerlifters have more fat than bodybuilders because their goals are different. Maximum strength is the goal of a powerlifter whereas a bodybuilder has a more difficult task of maximising competition appearance. Powerlifters don't have to worry about adding fat so as strength is the goal for the most part.


  • #74
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    OP I hardly believe a word you say after reading THIS POST, you're hardly training a wet day and have no idea how things were twenty years ago.
    TL;DR Do you think that the growth of the gym and fitness culture in Ireland is contributing to a rise in eating disorders?

    Although YOU have recently taken up some gym membership doesn't mean the fitness industry is growing in this country, with over 25 years experience my opinion is that gym's have been failing at a frightening rate over the last 6-8 years.

    As for eating disorders being related to gym membership and the need to look good ~ its always been like this, its really nothing new.

    I've been involved in weight training and martial arts for over 25 years and in my experience every new generation thinks they've reinvented the wheel and have discovered something new.


  • #75
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    Only recently I was reading that cartoon in the irish independent that's from the 40s or 50s or whatever, and that days cartoon was about how girls waste all their money in the pharmacy on beauty products.

    Yet people think that's a modern problem and there's way more pressure to look good now.

    There's always been pressure to look a certain way.


  • #76
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Nothing wrong with it if it's for the sake of health, but research shows that e.g. marathon runners actually damage their heart through the exertion they put out, and this likely carries over to extreme levels of exertion in the gym as well.

    Grand if people do it to keep fit, but getting obsessive over it to the point of physical harm (and remember: it's not hard to harm yourself without realizing - doubt marathon runners thought they were damaging their heart), or to the point of harm to mental health (i.e. extreme insecurity about physical shape/fitness), is too much.

    It's also harmful to society overall, when it's used as a measure to judge other people too - though anyone who tends to do that is probably a knob in general anyway.


    Personally, I know I aught to be doing more to keep up fitness, but fúck it I just find the gym too boring :P want to find ways to integrate it into other things I enjoy, and at least be able to combine the time with something more useful or fun.


  • #77
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with it if it's for the sake of health, but research shows that e.g. marathon runners actually damage their heart through the exertion they put out, and this likely carries over to extreme levels of exertion in the gym as well.
    This of course illustrates exactly the problem with medical reporting outside of medical spheres. Things can twisted from probabilities and correlations into pseudo-facts. Of course the aim here is to convince people that everything they do is dangerous; not exercising can kill you, exercising can kill you, so don't do either.

    The studies actually found that after a serious exertion like a marathon and given a relatively short amount of time (~2 days) to rest and cool down, a person's heart still didn't look "normal". This is of course to be expected; your heart is a muscle like any other, any long periods of exertion will cause temporary changes in it; inflammation, tiredness, etc.
    It was then extrapolated that less well prepared runners and people who did long endurance runs often (i.e. the people who do a marathon a week or more), were risking long-term cardiac issues because their heart would struggle to handle the level of exertion; just like any other muscle.

    When this news then reached the pop media it became, "Marathon runners are damaging their hearts". Which is of course not true. The benefits of exercise are well documented and even taking "heart damage" into account, those who exercise regularly have a better life expectancy than those who don't.

    This effect most likely doesn't carry over to the gym unless you're doing some serious interval reps and maxing out your HR multiple times over an hour or so. The main risk to your heart in the gym is in the building of muscle. In the same way that obese people risk heart problems, so too do bodybuilders. More mass requires more oxygen, which puts more strain on the heart. Though this effect isn't that big a deal unless you're comically large. And even then most bodybuilders suffer heart problems because of the crap they've been injecting and ingesting, not because of their body mass.


  • #78
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Christy92 wrote: »
    The whole fitness culture has been growing in the last few years in Ireland thanks to the internet, and it's by no means a bad thing, to an extent...

    Got confused there reading OP's name. Too early for me.


  • #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Adamantium wrote: »
    I agree about nutrition, I see older people vast amounts of white bread (and bread) in general.

    The people are convinced subway is healthy are just the worst.
    Why's it healthy.......... well reasons.

    No, it's advertising you fool.

    Another peddler of the "bread is evil" nonsense.

    Tell me whats so unhealthy about subway? Don't say calories as calories aren't bad.


  • #80
    DildoFaggins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭DildoFaggins


    daRobot wrote: »
    Heath culture is great. Honestly, it's about time here people started looking after themselves.

    But the amount of guys in their 20's who are juicing, is really worrying. It's totally unnecessary, as you can get in incredible shape without steroids, and the bizarre thing is that it's often really young guys who have a load of testosterone flowing through their veins anyway.

    Not as bad as Swansea though. Was there about 18 months ago for a weekend, and the only thing crazier than the amount of fights we saw, was the insane the amount of gear heads there.



    The whole juicing thing has been brought about by Zyzz and jersey shore really.

    I know a few guys in the fitness industry some natural some not but they do it for the love of competing on stage, and they are generally in fantastic shape
    the youth in the gym are basically morons who want results now I can understand wanting to get lean muscle but they are doing it wrong and for the wrong reasons and most look like absolute morons I can easily tell when they have been taking Dbol most likely without PCT or Test.

    They people who do juice in their early 20s I guarantee have little clue about proper cycling and PCT aswell as getting blood work and reverse dieting.

    If you juice your on juice for life unless you do it once or are lucky,It still boggles me because the average 20 year old produces 8-12 mgs of test a day equating to 70-100mg a week!


  • #81
    cletus van damme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭cletus van damme


    DildoFaggins wrote: »
    The whole juicing thing has been brought about by Zyzz and jersey shore really.

    I know a few guys in the fitness industry some natural some not but they do it for the love of competing on stage, and they are generally in fantastic shape
    the youth in the gym are basically morons who want results now I can understand wanting to get lean muscle but they are doing it wrong and for the wrong reasons and most look like absolute morons I can easily tell when they have been taking Dbol most likely without PCT or Test.

    They people who do juice in their early 20s I guarantee have little clue about proper cycling and PCT aswell as getting blood work and reverse dieting.

    If you juice your on juice for life unless you do it once or are lucky,It still boggles me because the average 20 year old produces 8-12 mgs of test a day equating to 70-100mg a week!

    what do you mean by this?
    just curious...


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  • #82
    DildoFaggins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭DildoFaggins


    cletus van damme wrote: »
    what do you mean by this?
    just curious...


    Well when you do juice it shuts your natural testosterone system down during the duration your on it since the body sees this extra testosterone and thinks it doesn't need to produce anything since an outside source is producing test.

    However it is completely dependent on the persons how much they take,what their PCT is like,Blood work etc.

    If someone where to do say a 8week Test cycle with proper PCT they wouldn't likely suffer from any problems,A friend of mine has been juicing since 15 and did a whole year on gear and now he has to take TRT for life due to the damage done to him,so take that as you will.


  • #83
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    seamus wrote: »
    This of course illustrates exactly the problem with medical reporting outside of medical spheres. Things can twisted from probabilities and correlations into pseudo-facts. Of course the aim here is to convince people that everything they do is dangerous; not exercising can kill you, exercising can kill you, so don't do either.

    The studies actually found that after a serious exertion like a marathon and given a relatively short amount of time (~2 days) to rest and cool down, a person's heart still didn't look "normal". This is of course to be expected; your heart is a muscle like any other, any long periods of exertion will cause temporary changes in it; inflammation, tiredness, etc.
    It was then extrapolated that less well prepared runners and people who did long endurance runs often (i.e. the people who do a marathon a week or more), were risking long-term cardiac issues because their heart would struggle to handle the level of exertion; just like any other muscle.

    When this news then reached the pop media it became, "Marathon runners are damaging their hearts". Which is of course not true. The benefits of exercise are well documented and even taking "heart damage" into account, those who exercise regularly have a better life expectancy than those who don't.

    This effect most likely doesn't carry over to the gym unless you're doing some serious interval reps and maxing out your HR multiple times over an hour or so. The main risk to your heart in the gym is in the building of muscle. In the same way that obese people risk heart problems, so too do bodybuilders. More mass requires more oxygen, which puts more strain on the heart. Though this effect isn't that big a deal unless you're comically large. And even then most bodybuilders suffer heart problems because of the crap they've been injecting and ingesting, not because of their body mass.
    It's not a pseudofact or anything like that - it's well studied:
    Up to 30 percent of those who finish marathons have elevated troponin levels, which is a marker for heart damage. That’s the marker we look for to see if someone’s having a heart attack – it’s irrefutable evidence of heart damage
    http://www.businessinsider.com/negative-efffects-of-running-a-marathon-2013-10

    It's not yet enough evidence on its own to be conclusive, but enough evidence is building up, to be concerned enough to warrant moderation.

    My post wasn't an "exercise harms you, so don't bother" type post, it points out that if you take fitness/exercise to extremes, you can do damage - even doing things that previously seemed relatively innocuous.
    It's not an argument for avoiding anything, just for moderation.


  • #84
    cletus van damme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭cletus van damme


    DildoFaggins wrote: »
    Well when you do juice it shuts your natural testosterone system down during the duration your on it since the body sees this extra testosterone and thinks it doesn't need to produce anything since an outside source is producing test.

    However it is completely dependent on the persons how much they take,what their PCT is like,Blood work etc.

    If someone where to do say a 8week Test cycle with proper PCT they wouldn't likely suffer from any problems,A friend of mine has been juicing since 15 and did a whole year on gear and now he has to take TRT for life due to the damage done to him,so take that as you will.

    I get you now and I agree somewhat.
    I however don't think it's to do with steroids itself but the mis-use of them without proper education ro being reckless.

    As for your mate taking them at 15 when his body is still going through growth probably messed up his development and probably not got his test production running probably at all.
    That is messed up although i have sympathy for him.


  • #85
    poundapunnet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭poundapunnet


    Barrett Dry Licorice wrote: »
    Another peddler of the "bread is evil" nonsense.

    Tell me whats so unhealthy about subway? Don't say calories as calories aren't bad.

    Calories in and of themselves are not unhealthy, but if you get a footlong (which based on my observation most men at least do) then you're looking at 1000+ calories, 20ish grams of bad fats, a load of sodium. That's not even necessarily counting the 'cheese' and whatever sauce you might like, let alone the soft drink and crisps/cookie plenty people indulge in. Not a healthy lunch by any stretch of the imagination, no matter how much people like to kid themselves that it is because it's got tomatoes on it.


  • #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    poundapunnet wrote: »
    Calories in and of themselves are not unhealthy, but if you get a footlong (which based on my observation most men at least do) then you're looking at 1000+ calories, 20ish grams of bad fats, a load of sodium. That's not even necessarily counting the 'cheese' and whatever sauce you might like, let alone the soft drink and crisps/cookie plenty people indulge in. Not a healthy lunch by any stretch of the imagination, no matter how much people like to kid themselves that it is because it's got tomatoes on it.

    If you eat three meals a day, with breakfast most likely being fairly low in calories then even having 1000ish calories between other two meals and any small snack is hardly outlandish and in keeping with the approximate 2500 calories for a man per day (who isn't exercising).


  • #87
    poundapunnet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭poundapunnet


    Barrett Dry Licorice wrote: »
    If you eat three meals a day, with breakfast most likely being fairly low in calories then even having 1000ish calories between other two meals and any small snack is hardly outlandish and in keeping with the approximate 2500 calories for a man per day (who isn't exercising).

    Yes but you could easily top 2000 at Subway if you go for the sauce, the cheese, and the soft drinks and crisps that they push as part of the meal deal. And the fats and sodium are at terrible rates. Not to mind the sugar. Not to mind the fairly low levels of fibre and vitamins.

    It's not the devil, it's not the bread that's making it unhealthy, and if you take advantage of the salad option, stick to the six inch and/or avoid the sauces and extras it's far from the worst fast-food franchise. But the way most people eat subway it's pretty unhealthy.


  • #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    poundapunnet wrote: »
    Yes but you could easily top 2000 at Subway if you go for the sauce, the cheese, and the soft drinks and crisps that they push as part of the meal deal. And the fats and sodium are at terrible rates. Not to mind the sugar. Not to mind the fairly low levels of fibre and vitamins.

    It's not the devil, it's not the bread that's making it unhealthy, and if you take advantage of the salad option, stick to the six inch and/or avoid the sauces and extras it's far from the worst fast-food franchise. But the way most people eat subway it's pretty unhealthy.

    My normal choice is a footlong subway club (ham, turkey and beef) on honey oat bread, I get all the salads (except olives) and cheese and honey mustard sauce. Comes out at about roughly 910 calories if you add it up according to the figures given online.


  • #89
    Sealow
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21 ✭Sealow


    Barrett Dry Licorice wrote: »
    Another peddler of the "bread is evil" nonsense.

    Tell me whats so unhealthy about subway? Don't say calories as calories aren't bad.

    Grains in general are harmful, but especially grains containing gluten. They contain lectins and anti nutrients as well as other harmful properties.


  • #90
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    I just think the food in subway tastes shíte to be honest.


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  • #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sealow wrote: »
    Grains in general are harmful, but especially grains containing gluten. They contain lectins and anti nutrients as well as other harmful properties.

    Here we go....

    Complete nonsense, we are eating grains for 100's of years. They are an important part of a healthy diet and are recommended by all trustworthy sources and experts. No doubt you will dig out a few dodgy online sources though to "prove" your point.
    Dravokivich wrote: »
    I just think the food in subway tastes shíte to be honest.

    I love it myself I have to say.


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