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Manager correcting me on personal issues

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    #32
    Squatman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Squatman


    Just to summarise
    No, this is perfectly normal,. you are an intern and therefor your basic human rights are void. In fact, because of the economic crisis, you should be so happy that you have a ****ty contract, thats poorly paid, that if he asks to take a dump in your mouth, then you should pucker up and thank him.

    PS im being sarcastic.
    I would approach him in work, have a meeting with him on a one to one basis, and ask in addition to what he as said, has he any more advice? At the end i would summarise that i am very unhappy with his condescending tone, and setting, added to the personal impressions, and that I will report such incidents if they occur in future,.
    If you get the reputation of being a walk over, then you will be walked over.


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    #33
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    Telling an intern to report a manager is ludicrous, especially the one who gave him/her the job. He was wrong to do it in that setting and may have gone a bit overboard but you are an intern, you're there to learn. Granted, the execution was questionable and perhaps even "wrong" but calling that bullying is ridiculous. In fact, depending on your profession, people should have their public speaking criticized more often. I know people who have finished law degrees having done maybe a handful of presentations all year.

    Nobody can defend the fact that he was drunk or that the third colleague made it particularly inappropriate but if you value references or experience even one bit you'll stop being so precious and move on. At least now you have identified a weakness that you can work on, which is exactly what you're there to do.


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    #34
    byronbay2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭byronbay2


    Squatman wrote: »
    No, this is perfectly normal,. you are an intern and therefor your basic human rights are void. In fact, because of the economic crisis, you should be so happy that you have a ****ty contract, thats poorly paid, that if he asks to take a dump in your mouth, then you should pucker up and thank him.

    PS im being sarcastic.

    Homer Simpson - is that you??


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    #35
    Popescu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭Popescu


    TimeToShine wrote: »
    ... At least now you have identified a weakness that you can work on, which is exactly what you're there to do.
    You cannot take the word of a rude, tipsy, boss that the poster has a weakness.


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    #36
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi all, I appreciate your input, really helps.

    Just to make things a bit clearer my job does not involve dealing with customers. It's a technical job, public speaking as such is not part of the role.

    Like I said, I wouldn't win any awards for my speaking but noway did I think it was "crap". I've asked close family and friends for their honest opinions and trust me they'd be honest. They don't think my speech is that bad, at all. Also, just to point out I had no drink on me as I was driving.

    I'm trying my best to not let it bother me however I do find it a little un-motivating, after all this was the guy I wanted to impress. Now I don't think I'd be interested in working under such a person. However I really want the experience and a good reference to put on my CV.

    I still haven't mentioned anything to the guy. He was somewhat nice to me this morning, and mentioned nothing of what happened.


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    #37
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    Feisar wrote: »
    Pros - you found out something you need to work on

    Cons - He/she was drinking, it was at a social occasion, it was done in front of someone else

    Solution: Go into his/her office and using your outside voice say, "thanks for the constructive criticism but I'd appreciate it if in future you spoke to me privately"

    Bye bye,internship over, close the door on your way out... Next candidate please.... One that can speak more clearly this time...


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    #38
    Squatman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Squatman


    jca wrote: »
    Bye bye,internship over, close the door on your way out... Next candidate please.... One that can speak more clearly this time...

    you have no idea, have you?


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    #39
    GardenMadness
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭GardenMadness


    I can see that there is strong disagreement on this, but I think his behaviour was ludicrous. As a professional with a guidance aspect to his job, there is no way he should be taking someone to task publicly on an issue that some may regard as personal, and certainly not after having had a few drinks and impressions are never acceptable.

    Deeply unprofessional from him.

    It's surprising that your speech could be indistinct to such a limiting degree, yet nobody ever mentioned it before.


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    #40
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    davo10 wrote: »
    Yip, carry on mumbling, great for the career.

    If the jackass wanted to broach the subject of an employee's speech then he should have asked the OP to go to an office in the workplace and it should have been addressed to him personally in a private setting. Speech issues can often be caused by hidden hearing problems so that might need to be explored. Too many jerks throwing shapes and ego tripping in the office world , thank god I'm leaving it forever soon. I can just picture the guy now holding court at the bar and casually mimicking , sounds like a true modern facebook warrior.


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    #41
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    OP ask yourself, was it really that bad? Think about it from his standpoint. I believe he was trying to offer you advice and help you out. You seem to think he went too far, but from reading your post, you did press him on the subject more than once. The time to show him you werent really happy with this input was during the conversation by changing the subject but you invited him to continue. His delivery was poor, no question but have you ever said something the wrong way yourself on occasion?

    I would be careful as regards people telling you to go in and read him the riot act, it is easy to be a keyboard warrior and I would bet half of them wouldnt do it themselves. It is important not to be a pushover, but it is also important not to be one of these people who are overly concerned with not being seen as a pushover either. Guys like that and he caused more conflicts for themselves than anything else. It is important to stand up for yourself but be reasonable at the same time, that is also what bosses are looking for.

    If I were you I would play it by ear. He might feel that he acted out of turn himself and he come to you about the issue. Even if he doesnt, actions speak louder than words and there are other ways to show you didnt appreciate the delivery without making a big deal of it. You can be subtle in conversations etc and he will get the hint and probably respect you more for standing up for yourself but in a reasonable fashion. After all neither of you wants a big issue here, so handle it without making it into one.


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    #42
    stinkle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    Wow. They were out of line saying this to you outside of work first of all, and with drink on them. The mimicking brings it to a whole new level of assholery. I'm not sure would it be classed as bullying right now as it's one incident, but if they zone in on you in future and not others then it's something to bear in mind.

    Unfortunately, the intern aspect complicates things - if you want to feel better then go ahead and complain. The terrible work climate at the moment could mean you end up out of a job. I hate advising anyone to suck it up, but do write stuff down if you think you're being singled out unfairly.

    As regards the speaking clearly issue - if this had been said to you in private in a professional setting then it would still hurt (regardless of whether it's even true or not). It's well known that the voice is a very personal thing, if someone criticises it then it's easy to personalise it and think you're being criticised. Would this person have had any opportunity to take you aside after a meeting and tell you or even politely suggest you speak up during a meeting before now?

    I hope you arent too upset by it. In the past I've been told I speak too softly - and while this didnt come up in the pub, I was singled out in front of an entire group and it was said in a mean way. I felt embarrassed for being me, thought "soft" meant "boring" and it made it that bit more difficult to speak in public again as it gave me another thing to worry about. It wasnt a bit constructive.

    After this meeting a friend said they could hear me just fine down the back (maybe they were just being kind though), and it grated with me that very few others actually spoke with confidence in meetings, and some were downright awful but were never picked on the way I was. I was definitely bullied in the job (other issues not just that, but it's an instance of one). HOWEVER, having moved fields into something more person-focused, I've been complimented many times on having a warm, respectful tone in dealing with people and their often very serious problems. SO please dont let this get to you, it's not a reflection on you as a person. If there even is a genuine voice problem it can be sorted, but maybe dont shy away from speaking to the manager rather than throwing money/time at a problem that might not even exist.

    There's nothing wrong with asking that constructive criticism be given IN PRIVATE, in the workplace rather than the pub. Only you can know if they're likely to be pissed off, but even if they are they'll know you arent a walkover. They might even be feeling wary over what they said, knowing it was inappropriate.

    Sorry for the long post.


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    #43
    irishguy1983
    Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭irishguy1983


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    If it was performance advice about your job, then it shouldn't have happened in front of a colleague.

    But it if was just general personal discussion as opposed to specific work performance, then it was probably a bit insensitive, but IMHO not offensive. Others will disagree, because as a manager he's in a position of power.

    TBH, this sort of feedback is actually valuable. You might not like it, but at this stage of your career, lap it up and be grateful. It's far better than they tell you, rather than not tell you and let you go because of it.

    I think your way off here.

    This was bullying - plain and simple.

    How dare this prick reprimand you in a pub and do an impression.


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    #44
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    irishguy1983 wrote: »
    I think your way off here.

    This was bullying - plain and simple.

    How dare this prick reprimand you in a pub and do an impression.

    Bullying has to be repeated harassment. His boss probably thought he was being "cool" and "hip" by giving the young new intern constructive criticism over a few drinks. Not correct by any means but bullying? Get a grip. HR departments would have to take up 75% of company staff if incidents like that fell under the bullying category.


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    #45
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    irishguy1983 wrote: »

    How dare this prick reprimand you in a pub and do an impression.

    He certainly didn't reprimand the op he advised the op and gave an example of the issue
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #46
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    irishguy1983 wrote: »
    I think your way off here.

    This was bullying - plain and simple.

    How dare this prick reprimand you in a pub and do an impression.

    The amount of drivel on these threads is astonishing. The manager didn't put his hand on her leg, he didn't assault her, he didn't refer to her sexuality, ethnicity, religion etc, he told her she needs to speak more clearly and demonstrated how she comes across to others. It was an informal setting because by the sounds of things she won't be staying very long and there wasn't much point of a formal review.

    Get over it OP, if this upsets you, you will not last very long in the rough and tumble of modern business. All these references to bullying etc does a disservice to the real victims of bullying.


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    #47
    stinkle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    Do you think it was ok for him to say this in front of another colleague of the OP?


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    #48
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    stinkle wrote: »
    Do you think it was ok for him to say this in front of another colleague of the OP?

    If OP is not dealing with the public then it is these other colleagues who cannot understand her. Again, what's the issue, he told her to speak up, if she wants to prove she can speak clearly, she can always march in to his office and clearly accuse him of bullying as some of the PC warriors have advised her, then she collects her stuff and hopes her feet hit the pavement before her arse.


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    #49
    stinkle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    If the colleagues can't understand her then they still don't need to be present when she's being called on it. And certainly not in the pub, with drink on board. If they can't understand her, surely it would come up day-to-day.

    I agree a one-off incident isnt bullying, but IMO it's disastrous saying something like that in front of another worker - for example that third party could go off and tell people. This person or the ones who hear the story second-hand may then feel enabled to treat the OP like a lesser person "cos Manager X did and got away with it".


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    #50
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    stinkle wrote: »
    If the colleagues can't understand her then they still don't need to be present when she's being called on it. And certainly not in the pub, with drink on board. If they can't understand her, surely it would come up day-to-day.

    I agree a one-off incident isnt bullying, but IMO it's disastrous saying something like that in front of another worker - for example that third party could go off and tell people. This person or the ones who hear the story second-hand may then feel enabled to treat the OP like a lesser person "cos Manager X did and got away with it".

    Are you got real? He told her to speak more clearly not that she has to perform the hokey kokey on the bar.


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    #51
    Matteroffact
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭Matteroffact


    I think the way he went about this is very cruel. I don't understand how anyone could be so mean. You will find this type of person everywhere OP, so it is a learning curve and part of the work experience. Take what you can from it, improve on your diction and all is not lost. Best of luck with the rest of your internship.


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    #52
    stinkle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    davo10 wrote: »
    Are you got real? He told her to speak more clearly not that she has to perform the hokey kokey on the bar.
    I never mentioned the hokey kokey. If people had a problem understanding her surely it would have become apparent before now - as in, being asked to repeat herself when dealing with people, that sort of thing.

    Giving workplace critique outside the workplace and not respecting confidentiality suggests terrible managerial skills and it's understandable that the OP is concerned. If he persists in doing this then it's bullying.


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    #53
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    Matteroffact wrote: »
    I think the way he went about this is very cruel. I don't understand how anyone could be so mean. You will find this type of person everywhere OP, so it is a learning curve and part of the work experience. Take what you can from it, improve on your diction and all is not lost. Best of luck with the rest of your internship.

    If this is what's deemed cruel these days then I really can't imagine how some people get through work.


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    #54
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    I agree a one-off incident isnt bullying, but IMO it's disastrous saying something like that in front of another worker - for example that third party could go off and tell people. This person or the ones who hear the story second-hand may then feel enabled to treat the OP like a lesser person "cos Manager X did and got away with it".

    If the third party does that then quite simply, report that third party for gossiping about what was said to you by your manager. That would get the message across about being a pushover. Personally, I dont know what kind of workmate would want to start treating her poorly for the sake of it. What would be the point? I see your stance as overly negative. I would be pretty sure this third party wishes they hadnt heard a word of it and doesnt want to be involved.


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    #55
    Milly33
    Registered Users Posts: 8,642 ✭✭✭Milly33


    your boss was being a dick plain and simple.. Sounds like one of those chaps who thinks the world revolves around them when really it doesn't.


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    #56
    stinkle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    [
    If the third party does that then quite simply, report that third party for gossiping about what was said to you by your manager. That would get the message across about being a pushover. Personally, I dont know what kind of workmate would want to start treating her poorly for the sake of it. What would be the point? I see your stance as negative. I would be pretty sure this third party wishes they hadnt heard a word of it and doesnt want to be involved.

    Ok they could be reported for gossiping - but a) a good manager shouldnt put third parties in that position in the first place and b) is it the same manager that the gossiping is reported to?

    Plenty of workmates would (possibly subconsciously) pick up on the OPs perceived "weakness" and treat her as less worthy. It happens. I would hope most people would be mortified at being involved and it would go no further.


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    #57
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    If it was performance advice about your job, then it shouldn't have happened in front of a colleague.

    But it if was just general personal discussion as opposed to specific work performance, then it was probably a bit insensitive, but IMHO not offensive. Others will disagree, because as a manager he's in a position of power.

    TBH, this sort of feedback is actually valuable. You might not like it, but at this stage of your career, lap it up and be grateful. It's far better than they tell you, rather than not tell you and let you go because of it.

    When work organise a social do then work rules still apply.. TBH it sounds like this manager got a little out of control and probably owes you an appology.
    If you're upset then you could broach the subject, if you felt intimadeted and demoralised by the manager in front of other workers I'd be pulling them up on it.


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    #58
    spyderski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭spyderski


    The manager made a poor decision in choosing where he brought this issue to to OP's attention. BUT I feel the OP's post is symptomatic of the sense of entitlement prevalent in many new/recent graduates. If the OP wants to get on in business, and life in general you need to HTFU. You can't go running to Boards, or the Union or whoever every time someone says something you don't like or which hurts your feelings.

    When I started work in the late 90's I wouldn't have considered something like this as even mildly upsetting. I was once interviewed for a graduate job by a now very prominent businessman who basically verbally abused me for the duration of the interview. Needless to say I left the interview feeling like I had been hit by a steamroller - I got a call from his PA the next day to say I had gotten the job and Mr. X was really impressed with me. The job paid around £5k per year more than any of my classmates were getting, and I learned a hell of a lot while I was there.

    Moral of the story, you're new, people are generally sound enough and won't deliberately bully you (although they might not treat you with the kid gloves you feel you deserve). Most managers like to see interns, graduates etc. get on well under their management (its usually in the Managers best interests too), so their advice is usually well-meaning.

    No need to put up with true bullying, but the development of a thicker skin might be beneficial.


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    #59
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Ok they could be reported for gossiping - but a) a good manager shouldnt put third parties in that position in the first place and b) is it the same manager that the gossiping is reported to?

    So what are you insinuating? That there is a conspiricy between the two of them? That they are laughing it up behind her back? A bit of reality is required here. Im pretty sure that the boss would be quite annoyed if the third party went off talking about A) a conversation he had with an employee and B) a young intern who just started in the place. Now that would be bullying.


    Plenty of workmates would (possibly subconsciously) pick up on the OPs perceived "weakness" and treat her as less worthy. It happens. I would hope most people would be mortified at being involved and it would go no further.

    Ah for gods sake. She is an intern. What kind of people spend their days lookng for ways to pick on interns? Who are these people? If this were to actually happen the people doing it would be in the wrong and liable to reprimand. This guy was trying to help her as someone he had employed and works under his guidance and he just got it wrong, that is a bit different to picking on people simply because you think you can.


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    #60
    con___manx1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    he is the boss and probably has a big ego. if he mentions it again give him some criticism and say it not good protocol from a manager to criticise an employe in front of other colleagues.


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    #61
    Rose35
    Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Rose35


    davo10 wrote: »
    The amount of drivel on these threads is astonishing. The manager didn't put his hand on her leg, he didn't assault her, he didn't refer to her sexuality, ethnicity, religion etc, he told her she needs to speak more clearly and demonstrated how she comes across to others. It was an informal setting because by the sounds of things she won't be staying very long and there wasn't much point of a formal review.

    Get over it OP, if this upsets you, you will not last very long in the rough and tumble of modern business. All these references to bullying etc does a disservice to the real victims of bullying.

    Agreed, since when is it ok to mimick someone and do it in front of another person, manager or no manager, he has no cop on, hope he is feeling like a pr*ck today and has a sore head, clearly had too much drink on board, don't agree that this is constructive criticism, taking someone off like that, OP good luck with the rest of your internship, im sure you don't mumble that badly you have to be pulled up on it, learn from your experience with this company, and hold your head up, its tough starting out but you will find your feet in a company with a manager that respects his staff, best of luck.


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