The NHS use discarded foeti to heat hospitals

Tasden · 24-03-2014 10:36PM

Muise... wrote: »

Czar, you assumed I needed insight into how women feel after abortions. I don't, thanks.

*gets popcorn jelly babies.

Well you did tell a poster how women tend to feel relief after an elective abortion, czarcasm was saying that not all women feel that way and you can see this in the threads here. No assumptions were made apart from you assuming that women tend to feel a certain way after elective abortions.

Everyone is different and reacts differently and its an emotive topic for a reason so obviously there will be strong feelings and emotions for some women.

Donkey Oaty · 24-03-2014 10:37PM

Muise... wrote: »

Czar, you assumed I needed insight into how women feel after abortions. I don't, thanks.

By all accounts, there isn't a uniform experience. Wouldn't you agree?

deandean · 24-03-2014 10:39PM

ok so the parents, traumitised by a still-birth / termination, whatever, should be offered a doggie bag to take home? ehh, no. I'm sure there is a PC term like 'thermally treated' for how remains are dealt with.

Czarcasm · 24-03-2014 10:40PM

Muise... wrote: »

Czar, you assumed I needed insight into how women feel after abortions. I don't, thanks.

How often Muise are we reminded on this forum alone that women don't think with a hive mind?

I still didn't make any assumptions about your individual experience, I was pointing you to the experience of women who for them an abortion affected them more than just the period you had last week.

Muise... · 24-03-2014 10:40PM

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

By all accounts, there isn't a uniform experience. Wouldn't you agree?

Wholeheartedly. That would have been my point, had I not got so snarky and stabby about being told how to feel. Apologies, threadfellows.

hatrickpatrick · 24-03-2014 10:43PM

awec wrote: »

What's the difference between incineration and cremation?

With cremation you expect the remains to be handled with some degree of respect. Incineration implies that they're just being haphazardly tossed into a furnace with the rest of the garbage.

Given that some people might be heartbroken to have had late stage miscarriages and had been hoping to have a baby, treating a foetus in such a way is pretty revolting. Let's suppose a relative of yours died in hospital and you opted for cremation, would you be happy knowing that someone just threw them onto a pile of burning waste without giving it a second thought? I doubt it somehow.

dharma200 · 24-03-2014 10:43PM

re: czar
I would stick to what you know about your own experiences. I think if you have had your own experience then you have something to say, if you are just picking the experiences with which your own stance is better served, yet have nothing of your own empirical experience to add, then its fairly pointless pointing out one womans experience over another because you read it somewhere. Many woman are perfectly happy to have elected to terminate. If you haven't terminated then really there is nothing to be said... stupid title of a thread stupid story, what is expected to be done with a potential bio hazard...

Donkey Oaty · 24-03-2014 10:44PM

Muise... wrote: »

Wholeheartedly. That would have been my point, had I not got so snarky and stabby about being told how to feel. Apologies, threadfellows.

I'd say that experiences like yours are very underreported on the Irish media, so I can definitely understand your frustration!

Muise... · 24-03-2014 10:56PM

Tasden wrote: »

Well you did tell a poster how women tend to feel relief after an elective abortion, czarcasm was saying that not all women feel that way and you can see this in the threads here. No assumptions were made apart from you assuming that women tend to feel a certain way after elective abortions.

Everyone is different and reacts differently and its an emotive topic for a reason so obviously there will be strong feelings and emotions for some women.

I should have been clearer - the women I know who have decided to have abortions because they did not want to have a baby were rather relieved after the abortions. Otherwise they wouldn't have had them.

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I'd say that experiences like yours are very underreported on the Irish media, so I can definitely understand your frustration!

It's not my direct experience and I'm really glad of that. My direct experience is being confided in by female friends. This makes me think wtf about the line, usually from the pro-life side or given as a sop to them, that an abortion is a dreadful, scarring tragedy that women are barely strong enough to handle. No doubt some women feel that way, but none that I know, and those I do know, who picked themselves up afterwards, would never want it reported in the media because a) they're grand and b) it's nobody's business but theirs; not the Church, State, internet posters or electorate's.

Czarcasm · 24-03-2014 10:58PM

dharma200 wrote: »

re: czar
I would stick to what you know about your own experiences. I think if you have had your own experience then you have something to say, if you are just picking the experiences with which your own stance is better served, yet have nothing of your own empirical experience to add, then its fairly pointless pointing out one womans experience over another because you read it somewhere. Many woman are perfectly happy to have elected to terminate. If you haven't terminated then really there is nothing to be said... stupid title of a thread stupid story, what is expected to be done with a potential bio hazard...

I never said anything about women who were happy to have elected to terminate? I also won't be turning this thread into a pissing contest about people's experiences of abortion. I'm only sticking to the topic at hand, and if you thought it was stupid, nobody forced you to post in it.

It's as much a potential bio-hazard as it was a potential human being, and there are guidelines laid down by the Human Tissue Association for disposal of aborted foetuses in NHS Trust hospitals in the UK. Some hospitals were not abiding by those guidelines. That's the issue in this thread, not the morality of abortion.

Flippyfloppy · 24-03-2014 11:01PM

In my own personal experience, in an Irish hospital, we had a devastating loss in the first trimester. We were told the graveyard that the hospital use for all of these babies.

I go to that graveyard and I would be absolutely horrified to find out that I was lied to!

Temptamperu · 24-03-2014 11:03PM

homeless student wrote: »

in fairness that is disgusting, im shocked they would do that.

What do you want them to do?

Tasden · 24-03-2014 11:05PM

Muise... wrote: »

I should have been clearer - the women I know who have decided to have abortions because they did not want to have a baby were rather relieved after the abortions. Otherwise they wouldn't have had them.

.

Not trying to nitpick here (honestly :pac:) but to say they wouldn't have had them otherwise is a little naive don't you think?

My best friend is still recovering emotionally from her decision to have one. She didn't take it lightly but she didn't want a baby so she had to choose a lesser of two evils, she felt no relief. But had she kept the baby she would have been in a worse position.

I was "pro-life" before I had my child, a so called crisis pregnancy, its only now that I have a family of my own to consider that I actually understand the grey area that exists when faced with the decision to terminate. Right now if I fell pregnant I would probably opt for an abortion because I'm in no position to bring another child into this world and it would be unfair on my child now to do that because I wouldn't be able to be a good mother (financially/mentally/emotionally) to two children, would I feel relief upon making that decision? Not at all.

Muise... · 24-03-2014 11:10PM

Tasden wrote: »

Not trying to nitpick here (honestly :pac:) but to say they wouldn't have had them otherwise is a little naive don't you think?

My best friend is still recovering emotionally from her decision to have one. She didn't take it lightly but she didn't want a baby so she had to choose a lesser of two evils, she felt no relief. But had she kept the baby she would have been in a worse position.

I was "pro-life" before I had my child, a so called crisis pregnancy, its only now that I have a family of my own to consider that I actually understand the grey area that exists when faced with the decision to terminate. Right now if I fell pregnant I would probably opt for an abortion because I'm in no position to bring another child into this world and it would be unfair on my child now to do that because I wouldn't be able to be a good mother (financially/mentally/emotionally) to two children, would I feel relief upon making that decision? Not at all.

I use the word relief to mean the feeling of relative peace when a crisis is over. I certainly didn't mean it in the sense of relief when your team wins the cup after a nail-biting match.

Tasden · 24-03-2014 11:15PM

Muise... wrote: »

I use the word relief to mean the feeling of relative peace when a crisis is over. I certainly didn't mean it in the sense of relief when your team wins the cup after a nail-biting match.

Even meaning it as a feeling of relative peace following a crisis, my point still stands tbh. But we'll agree to disagree I suppose

Ann Landers · 24-03-2014 11:16PM

Muise... wrote: »

The emotional resonance of an elective abortion tends to be relief, Donkey, not grief

Errrrr, not for everyone...

Uriel. · 24-03-2014 11:19PM

deandean wrote: »

ok so the parents, traumitised by a still-birth / termination, whatever, should be offered a doggie bag to take home? ehh, no. I'm sure there is a PC term like 'thermally treated' for how remains are dealt with.

That's a very flippant and disrespectful comment to make

Muise... · 24-03-2014 11:23PM

Ann Landers wrote: »

Errrrr, not for everyone...

lesser grief then, as in the best you could do under the circumstances, but still hurts like hell? Also tends, in my pathetic sample of 9 women. I won't assume anything for the 10th.

Gael23 · 24-03-2014 11:24PM

This is disgusting.
Its called dignity and should always be respected. If this is true, someones head should be on the line at the hospital

BobbyPropane · 24-03-2014 11:25PM

Personally think it's disgusting and shows a complete disregard for human life.

This is from someone who has no real opinion on abortion (don't care whether its legal or not)

Ann Landers · 24-03-2014 11:30PM

Muise... wrote: »

lesser grief then, as in the best you could do under the circumstances, but still hurts like hell? Also tends, in my pathetic sample of 9 women. I won't assume anything for the 10th.

From the women I know, some felt relief, some relief and grief, and one downright regrets it and reacted very badly afterwards. There are a huge range of reactions to it.

darkpagandeath · 24-03-2014 11:31PM

BobbyPropane wrote: »

Personally think it's disgusting and shows a complete disregard for human life.

This is from someone who has no real opinion on abortion (don't care whether its legal or not)

Not to be pedantic but. it's a body it's was not alive when it was incinerated.

urabell · 24-03-2014 11:33PM

Do Not Stand At My Grave And Weep
Do not stand at my grave and weep,
I am not there, I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glint on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you wake in the morning hush,
I am the swift, uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circling flight.
I am the soft starlight at night.
Do not stand at my grave and weep.
I am not there, I do not sleep.
Do not stand at my grave and cry.
I am not there, I did not die!

Mary Frye (1932)

Really must emphasise the separation of body and soul upon death

urabell · 24-03-2014 11:35PM

BobbyPropane wrote: »

Personally think it's disgusting and shows a complete disregard for human life.

This is from someone who has no real opinion on abortion (don't care whether its legal or not)

You did real the article? They're not incinerating live babies to power the hospital, human life is not a live issue here

BobbyPropane · 24-03-2014 11:40PM

urabell wrote: »

You did real the article? They're not incinerating live babies to power the hospital, human life is not a live issue here

It still degrades what makes humans humans. It is the foundation of our life, everyone at once stage was a fetus.

urabell · 24-03-2014 11:42PM

BobbyPropane wrote: »

It still degrades what makes humans humans. It is the foundation of our life, everyone at once stage was a fetus.

Everyone was once a live foetus yes, which is a separate thing to a dead foetus

Tasden · 24-03-2014 11:42PM

So if the body is "just a shell" and we shouldn't care because they were already dead and its just waste, should we feel the same about necrophilia? Or how about people who don't want to donate organs? Sure its just your shell, you're dead anyway let them take them regardless of your wishes.

hatrickpatrick · 24-03-2014 11:43PM

urabell wrote: »

You did real the article? They're not incinerating live babies to power the hospital, human life is not a live issue here

It's abotu treating the dead with a bit of respect instead of treating them on the same level as an empty can of pringles. Burning foetuses alongside garbage is revolting, regardless of one's opinions on abortion or when life begins - some of these would be the products of miscarriages, not abortions, and in most cases of miscarriage there are parents who feel grief almost as badly as they would for a child which had already been born to them. Ergo, a dead foetus should be afforded the same level of respect that one would expect their relatives to be afforded - each of those may have been someone's future son or daughter who they had already grown emotionally attached to.

Honestly, how some people are failing to see why this is such a nasty story is really beyond me.

urabell · 24-03-2014 11:48PM

Tasden wrote: »

So if the body is "just a shell" and we shouldn't care because they were already dead and its just waste, should we feel the same about necrophilia? Or how about people who don't want to donate organs? Sure its just your shell, you're dead anyway let them take them regardless of your wishes.

You shouldn't have a choice about whether to give your organs away or not because you don't need them when you die, keeping them would be selfish, illogical and immoral and should be illegal
If you can't separate the issues surrounding burning a corpse and f*cking a corpse on your own then I can't help you.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's abotu treating the dead with a bit of respect instead of treating them on the same level as an empty can of pringles. Burning foetuses alongside garbage is revolting, regardless of one's opinions on abortion or when life begins - some of these would be the products of miscarriages, not abortions, and in most cases of miscarriage there are parents who feel grief almost as badly as they would for a child which had already been born to them. Ergo, a dead foetus should be afforded the same level of respect that one would expect their relatives to be afforded - each of those may have been someone's future son or daughter who they had already grown emotionally attached to.

Honestly, how some people are failing to see why this is such a nasty story is really beyond me.

The human that existed in the body is no longer connected to it, they now sit at the right hand of our Lord in heaven

Uriel. · 24-03-2014 11:55PM

urabell wrote: »

You shouldn't have a choice about whether to give your organs away or not because you don't need them when you die, keeping them would be selfish, illogical and immoral and should be illegal
If you can't separate the issues surrounding burning a corpse and f*cking a corpse on your own then I can't help you.

The human that existed in the body is no longer connected to it, they now sit at the right hand of our Lord in heaven

Are you Jebus?

The NHS use discarded foeti to heat hospitals

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