77 year old man arrested in connection with mcconville murder

tomwaterford · 22-03-2014 01:00AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I'm not anti (non violent) republican, but it's saddening to see people skirt whatabout in relation to this slaying, and talk about how she should have been relocated by the British army (that's if she was an informant).

it was wrong to kill her.....it was nearly as wrong to use a vunerable woman to help track movements knowing full well what would happened if she was caught-im sure she knew herself,
one can only assume they taught the ira wouldn't be ruthless enough to kill a widow mother of ten...knowing full well that it could damage there support base...there is no defending burying her for 30+ years
she should have never been used by intelligence agencies....desperate times call for desperate measures...esp where she was based

Dyr · 22-03-2014 01:07AM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

OK so we're agreed about them being cowardly brain dead scumbags, its just the drunken lynch mob slur you object to?
Fine, so they were a stone cold sober advance party of cowardly brain dead scumbags.

your usual horse ****e it is so

Strumms · 22-03-2014 01:09AM

The timing of the arrest is all very interesting. From the little research I have done the suspect has been a very high ranking IRA member and republican for some years. It will be interesting to hear how the arrest came about at this stage as in how new evidence came to light. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks the timing of this might be politically motivated considering the uproar of the 'letters' and the ripples caused on the Loyalist side.

Either way whatever Mrs McConville had been up to rightly or wrongly or not at all this was a savage act of violence. I know people would say "you had to be there" or whatever... a war crime by definition is a ware crime pure and simple.

emo72 · 22-03-2014 01:20AM

im assuming nationalists and loyalists are equally happy that someone has been arrested for this atrocity.

Fratton Fred · 22-03-2014 01:29AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

it was wrong to kill her.....it was nearly as wrong to use a vunerable woman to help track movements knowing full well what would happened if she was caught-im sure she knew herself,
one can only assume they taught the ira wouldn't be ruthless enough to kill a widow mother of ten...knowing full well that it could damage there support base...there is no defending burying her for 30+ years
she should have never been used by intelligence agencies....desperate times call for desperate measures...esp where she was based

So you know something a full enquiry didn't? Why didn't you come forward and give your evidence?

tomwaterford · 22-03-2014 01:39AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So you know something a full enquiry didn't? Why didn't you come forward and give your evidence?

nope...I never said I know something the full inquiry didn't...god knows where that idea came about:rolleyes::rolleyes:
sorry for causing confusion onto you:pac:

post below sums up the hyprosircy of most (not all) people who go on about this...I think there was a tv programme a few years ago about it

Karl Stein wrote: »

It goes a little like this:

A: 'Gerry Adams was in the IRA, sure didn't the IRA volunteers who shot Jean McConville say so'?

B: 'But they also say that Jean McConville was an informer'.

A: LIARS! :mad:

Fratton Fred · 22-03-2014 01:49AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

nope...I never said I know something the full inquiry didn't...god knows where that idea came about:rolleyes::rolleyes:
sorry for causing confusion onto you:pac:

post below sums up the hyprosircy of most (not all) people who go on about this...I think there was a tv programme a few years ago about it

You seem convinced she was an informer, but there is no evidence, apparently, that she was.

Let's gave it, just like most brutal murders the ira carried out, this was a simple case of them giving a public display of how brutal they could be and when they get grief for it, they come up with a plausible excuse so the yes men can feel better.

tomwaterford · 22-03-2014 01:59AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You seem convinced she was an informer, but there is no evidence, apparently, that she was.

Let's gave it, just like most brutal murders the ira carried out, this was a simple case of them giving a public display of how brutal they could be and when they get grief for it, they come up with a plausible excuse so the yes men can feel better.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/documentary-accusing-gerry-adams-of-ira-murder-broadcast-105989253-237724591.html

not most reliable source I know...ill be wreaked if I have to find the documentary evidence on youtube:pac::pac:
(5th paragraph btw)

you cant take his word on one thing in relation to adams and not on something else

Fratton Fred · 22-03-2014 08:21AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/documentary-accusing-gerry-adams-of-ira-murder-broadcast-105989253-237724591.html

not most reliable source I know...ill be wreaked if I have to find the documentary evidence on youtube:pac::pac:
(5th paragraph btw)

you cant take his word on one thing in relation to adams and not on something else

So you're saying that Lord Adams was involved?

.jacksparrow. · 22-03-2014 08:40AM

Karl Stein wrote: »

There was plenty of them up to their necks in blood too so I'm not sure that the claim they were 'saving lives' holds water.

Informers are usually greedy for money, have some sort of grudge against their 'comrades' (or some combination of the two) rather than feeling an overwhelming sense of duty to the enemy public.

Exactly look at stake knife.

Up to 50 people murdered just to keep his identity as an informer a secret for the British government

Richard · 22-03-2014 10:57AM

Karl Stein wrote: »

There was plenty of them up to their necks in blood too so I'm not sure that the claim they were 'saving lives' holds water.

Informers are usually greedy for money, have some sort of grudge against their 'comrades' (or some combination of the two) rather than feeling an overwhelming sense of duty to the enemy public.

Or they were driven by a desire to see the end of the senseless killing and maiming that was going on on a daily basis.

michael999999 · 22-03-2014 10:59AM

Richard wrote: »

Or they were driven by a desire to see the end of the senseless killing and maiming that was going on on a daily basis.

So they went working for the RUC/British army. Ya that was well thought out!

FTA69 · 22-03-2014 11:11AM

Richard wrote: »

Or they were driven by a desire to see the end of the senseless killing and maiming that was going on on a daily basis.

So they went and aided the British Army, an organisation which the same year had killed 14 unarmed protestors and was collaborating with Loyalist paramilitaries?

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

FTA69 · 22-03-2014 11:58AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You seem convinced she was an informer, but there is no evidence, apparently, that she was.

Let's gave it, just like most brutal murders the ira carried out, this was a simple case of them giving a public display of how brutal they could be and when they get grief for it, they come up with a plausible excuse so the yes men can feel better.

Yeah, so in the middle of a conflict in which they depended on community support; they just decided to go out and shoot a single mother for the craic. Simply because they were evil bogeymen who wanted to display brutality? I'm sorry Fred, but it's your theory that's bloody implausible for honest.

The reality of the situation is that she was a vulnerable woman who obviously came under pressure to give information and the IRA reacted to that in their typical fashion. McConville's death was a tragedy, and nobody could ever justify what they did to her body subsequently. As I said on another thread, if you're convinced enough in your ideals to kill someone then at least have the balls to stand over your action.

It certainly wasn't one of their most glorious actions, but this fairy-tale that she was killed for being a Protestant or helping a fictional soldier et al is simply a pile of b*llocks.

Busted Flat. · 22-03-2014 12:04PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So you know something a full enquiry didn't? Why didn't you come forward and give your evidence?

I would be interested in your opinion on Ed Molloney, and his article in the Broken Elbow.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthebrokenelbow.com%2F2013%2F07%2F14%2Fplea-to-mcconville-family-join-us-in-bid-for-british-army-papers%2F&ei=dm0tU9epFOeI7AbG4IGwBg&usg=AFQjCNEeogah46TyqE9EMgfP0F_a5DJ8EQ&bvm=bv.62922401,d.ZGU

gallag · 22-03-2014 12:09PM

FTA69 wrote: »

So they went and aided the British Army, an organisation which the same year had killed 14 unarmed protestors and was collaborating with Loyalist paramilitaries?

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.

The british army still killed a fraction of how many the IRA did, they risked their lives daily defusing bombs etc, without the British army their would have been a lot more deaths!

FTA69 · 22-03-2014 12:12PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

the only way to settle this once and for all is have a 3 year commission of truth and whoever takes part and is willing to put their name to the truth will be immune from prosecution (severe sentence for lying to said commission) and no convictions to be saught from any details outlined to it
bring cases against those who wont participate then (on all sides)

This will never, ever happen for the simple reason that no party to the conflict wants it to. Do you honestly think the British government is going to come out and own up to collusion? That an EU member and member of the UN Security Council is going to admit to facilitating death squads in the murder of their own citizens? Or facilitated bomb attacks on a neighbouring state? They fought a very dirty war in Ireland and they will never admit the intricacies of it.

Likewise Adams is a great man for calling for such a committee but is he going to come out and say he was a senior IRA member after denying it for 40 years? While he's just about gaining political respectability in the south where people have no time for the sordid carry on that that war entailed?

Not a hope. It's a nice idea but we'll never fully know the ins and outs of that conflict and as the years go on that will only be reinforced.

FTA69 · 22-03-2014 12:15PM

gallag wrote: »

The british army still killed a fraction of how many the IRA did, they risked their lives daily defusing bombs etc, without the British army their would have been a lot more deaths!

Yeah, and the majority of people they killed were civilians. Not to mention the fact they were up to their necks in collusion and were the go-to force for interning thousands of people without trial and torturing those they captured. Grand bunch of lads alright.

If you're looking to defend the British Army's record in Ireland then find someone else to bullsh*t on to because I'm not particularly interested in hearing about it.

gallag · 22-03-2014 12:25PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Yeah, and the majority of people they killed were civilians. Not to mention the fact they were up to their necks in collusion and were the go-to force for interning thousands of people without trial and torturing those they captured. Grand bunch of lads alright.

If you're looking to defend the British Army's record in Ireland then find someone else to bullsh*t on to because I'm not particularly interested in hearing about it.

Just saying, you consider them murderous scum and yet they only killed a fifth of the amount the IRA did, the IRA killed more civilians also! The IRA killed more catholics than the British army killed total people! Am I saying the British army were saints and done no wrong? **** no!!! But if you want to pretend the IRA were any better then you will need to perform some mental gymnastics.

joe swanson · 22-03-2014 12:26PM

These threads always attract those who want to scream whataboutery.

simple fact is jean mcconvilles murder was a disgrace and committed by sub human scum.

all sides in the conflict committed disgusting acts but these threads wil always attract those who want to see everything in their own black and white way.

Murder is murder and whether u believe the theories out forward by sinn fein/ira supporters its still wrong. After so many years of relative peace, there are still some people who justify these acts. Its pretty sad.

oh and before the what about xyz replies, all sides that murder/ed are scum

FTA69 · 22-03-2014 12:34PM

gallag wrote: »

Just saying, you consider them murderous scum and yet they only killed a fifth of the amount the IRA did, the IRA killed more civilians also! The IRA killed more catholics than the British army killed total people! Am I saying the British army were saints and done no wrong? **** no!!! But if you want to pretend the IRA were any better then you will need to perform some mental gymnastics.

I never said they were "murderous scum" at all, I actually know plenty of ex-Brits and they aren't two-headed monsters by any means. What I am saying however, is that they and the RUC were at the front line of prosecuting an occupation which was wrong and unjustified. They certainly weren't some benevolent force of peacekeepers as you're trying to make out.

Likewise I'm not saying the IRA were saints, rather that they were a natural reaction to a state that was built on sectarianism and maintained by violence.

dxhound2005 · 22-03-2014 12:42PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Yeah, and the majority of people they killed were civilians. Not to mention the fact they were up to their necks in collusion and were the go-to force for interning thousands of people without trial and torturing those they captured. Grand bunch of lads alright.

If you're looking to defend the British Army's record in Ireland then find someone else to bullsh*t on to because I'm not particularly interested in hearing about it.

How many thousands would that be?

FTA69 · 22-03-2014 01:05PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How many thousands would that be?

Two.

BrendanHughes1 · 22-03-2014 01:18PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How many thousands would that be?

342 people were interned in the space of 9th -11th August 1971 & internment lasted for another three & half years so I don't think several thousand would be a strange figure at all. Not to mention the six thousand people displaced from their homes during Operation Demetrius.

FTA69 · 22-03-2014 01:38PM

BrendanHughes1 wrote: »

342 people were interned in the space of 9th -11th August 1971 & internment lasted for another three & half years so I don't think several thousand would be a strange figure at all. Not to mention the six thousand people displaced from their homes during Operation Demetrius.

Don't mind him. Internment lasted until 1975 and involved two thousand people being incarcerated without trial in substandard conditions. Large numbers of people suffered degradation and beatings at the hands of the British Army, both when they were being arrested and while they were incarcerated. A significant number of people also suffered torture which included beatings, being threatened with attack dogs, mock executions, stress positions, sleep deprivation and a host of psychological techniques as well.

While people were being arrested, homes were smashed to pieces and numerous family members were also severely beaten by armed soldiers.

gallag · 22-03-2014 01:57PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Don't mind him. Internment lasted until 1975 and involved two thousand people being incarcerated without trial in substandard conditions. Large numbers of people suffered degradation and beatings at the hands of the British Army, both when they were being arrested and while they were incarcerated. A significant number of people also suffered torture which included beatings, being threatened with attack dogs, mock executions, stress positions, sleep deprivation and a host of psychological techniques as well.

While people were being arrested, homes were smashed to pieces and numerous family members were also severely beaten by armed soldiers.

2000, that's a big number alright! still, I wonder would Jean rather be one of the 2000 interned or the 1500 murdered by the IRA?

BrendanHughes1 · 22-03-2014 02:06PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Don't mind him. Internment lasted until 1975 and involved two thousand people being incarcerated without trial in substandard conditions. Large numbers of people suffered degradation and beatings at the hands of the British Army, both when they were being arrested and while they were incarcerated. A significant number of people also suffered torture which included beatings, being threatened with attack dogs, mock executions, stress positions, sleep deprivation and a host of psychological techniques as well.

While people were being arrested, homes were smashed to pieces and numerous family members were also severely beaten by armed soldiers.

Also eleven people were murdered by the para's including a 46 year old mother of eight.

mrsbyrne · 22-03-2014 02:18PM

gallag wrote: »

2000, that's a big number alright! still, I wonder would Jean rather be one of the 2000 interned or the 1500 murdered by the IRA?

Your not paying attention gallag. She wasn't abducted by the IRA from her ten dependent fatherless children in the pitch dark and driven miles before being made to kneel and then shot to death like a dog after which her body was dumped like a bag of rubbish on the beach.
She was mysteriously ,"killed" possibly by aliens. One poster considers it merely the "McConville incident" as if someone stole her purse. Which they also did incidentally. But that's OK cos it was returned.
Even if that's what happened, we'll its all been justified on this thread. So try and keep up and don't be so unpatriotic you west Brit.

Santa Cruz · 22-03-2014 02:46PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Don't mind him. Internment lasted until 1975 and involved two thousand people being incarcerated without trial in substandard conditions. Large numbers of people suffered degradation and beatings at the hands of the British Army, both when they were being arrested and while they were incarcerated. A significant number of people also suffered torture which included beatings, being threatened with attack dogs, mock executions, stress positions, sleep deprivation and a host of psychological techniques as well.

While people were being arrested, homes were smashed to pieces and numerous family members were also severely beaten by armed soldiers.

When the I.R.A. were interrogating suspected informers they always complied with the Geneva Convention and the Judges Rules allowing ample time for sleep, consultation with solicitor etc.

William F · 22-03-2014 02:52PM

The arrest is politically motivated. It's shocking that after everything the north has been through, Republicans are on the receiving end of arrests and British soldiers who murdered civilians in Derry and Ballymurphy walk scott free. It's a disgrace.

77 year old man arrested in connection with mcconville murder

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