Could there have been intelligent life on earth?

greedygoblin · 19-03-2014 02:12AM

Here is an interesting little graphic (from the USGS I think) detailing the geological evolution of earth.
The length of time humans have been around is miniscule compared to the age of the planet.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/geology/publications/bul/1508/images/fig61.jpg

emo72 · 19-03-2014 02:18AM

As far as I know the continents have split up and rejoined 5 times. As the previous poster pointed out " we have just arrived". We haven't discovered what went on, on this planet in the distant pass. So anything is possible. Interesting thread.

zenno · 19-03-2014 02:19AM

Who's to say, that a very technologically advanced civilisation didn't exist thousands of years ago and moved off to other planets or moons if they had the technological know-how?. Think of us now, as a reasonably technologically advanced civilisation right now.

If sh!t goes tits up as in a world nuclear war today, I'm sure the elites would be shipped off this planet even to the moon (yes I believe there is already a moon-base on the moon built from the black budget monies/trillions used by the secret military aerospace industry) but only saving the elites and scientists and folk that have necessary skills to build a new home on such moon or planet.

We all stay here and get destroyed mostly, in such a catastrophic way that future generations will be like ours today wondering what really happened in the far past of those thousands of years ago.

Capt'n Midnight · 19-03-2014 02:20AM

considering our current impact on the planet it's very unlikely that a previous species that affected it anywhere as much would have gone unnoticed.

also intelligence is relative, you just need to be the smartest at the time not the smartest ever

zenno · 19-03-2014 03:06AM

Theories abound, they are everywhere, but will we ever know our real past ?.

jiminho · 19-03-2014 04:30AM

Battlestar Galactica anyone?

Adamantium · 19-03-2014 07:49AM

jiminho wrote: »

Battlestar Galactica anyone?

if ever there was a timeless yet depressing truth in that masterpiece series, it was in the saying:

"All this has happened before, and all of this will happen again"

Goes for pretty much everything in life, people their personalities, their actions and learning from the consequences of those actions, not simply forgetting and consigning it as academic history.

Also I've worded this in such a way, that there's no spoikers

Krispie · 19-03-2014 08:10AM

you not think it is all relative? We know what we know which in the greater scheme of things, we know feck all so the possibility of intelligent life here, and on other planets, imho, is not just possible but certain. It may not have been in "perfect" human form but it was intelligent.
Given what other creatures can do with what is at their disposal, and compare to what the average Joe can do, we are actually not that intelligent, quite stupid really and helpless.

Stavros Murphy · 19-03-2014 08:23AM

Akrasia wrote: »

The velociraptors could open doors

Couldn't build them though cause they didn't have opposable thumbs.

Or JML multi-saws. We've come a long way.

Fratton Fred · 19-03-2014 10:03AM

As I sit here, in my mind numbingly boring job, I can't help but marvel at how intelligent we are as a species. I bet our forefathers never believed we would one day spend more time worshipping the mighty spreadsheet God than we do spending time with our families.

Wibbs · 19-03-2014 10:28AM

endacl wrote: »

In evolutionary terms, we haven't been here all that long. In a million years some other species may well be asking themselves the same question...

Possible, but unlikely. Of all the adaptations to various environments on this planet, intelligence, our type of intelligence is the very rarest of all. Flight? Loads of very different creatures have cracked that one, from dinosaurs to mammals, to insects, to birds and all had a similar basic template. Swimming? Ditto. Intelligence? Nope. Just us. Only the once. And if you're talking about our current kind of intelligence that paints pictures and builds space stations and communicates as we're doing now, that's only been around for under 100,000 years, more like 50,000. Humans in one form or another had been here for well over a million*, but even there we're the major outliers. Neandertals were clever people who survived, nay thrived in various environments for double the time modern humans like us have been around, but they wouldn't have painted the Mona Lisa. Maybe they had their own rare Leonardo or Newton, but he or she was born to a species and cultural environment that meant their genius died with them.

Contrary to the popular idea that "we're just another animal", we're incredibly rare. We are special.

So even if a dinosaur had become intelligent, chances are very high they would have stayed at erectus/neandertal levels and may have not survived very long. Neandertals were slowing in population growth before we showed up and we were nearly wiped out and at one point 50-60,000 years ago(IIRC) we were down to around 10-20,000 people. Imagine Croke park three quarters empty. That was us. So you and me reading this are incredibly, vanishingly, scarily lucky to be doing so.

*I'm setting the bar for human at Erectus. Previous hominids may have been clever bipedal apes, but Erectus brought something new to the table.

19-03-2014 10:39AM

zenno wrote: »

Who's to say, that a very technologically advanced civilisation didn't exist thousands of years ago and moved off to other planets or moons if they had the technological know-how?. Think of us now, as a reasonably technologically advanced civilisation right now.

If sh!t goes tits up as in a world nuclear war today, I'm sure the elites would be shipped off this planet even to the moon (yes I believe there is already a moon-base on the moon built from the black budget monies/trillions used by the secret military aerospace industry) but only saving the elites and scientists and folk that have necessary skills to build a new home on such moon or planet.

We all stay here and get destroyed mostly, in such a catastrophic way that future generations will be like ours today wondering what really happened in the far past of those thousands of years ago.

We cant find a lost plane on earth and you think they have secret moon bases?

Interesting.

conorhal · 19-03-2014 10:44AM

endacl wrote: »

In evolutionary terms, we haven't been here all that long. In a million years some other species may well be asking themselves the same question...

One answered by the homind fossel with an iPhone grafted to it's hand. Since we haven't seen any Dinosaur remains trapped in their fossilized cars after a volcanic explosion, I think it's safe to assume that we're the first intelligent life to evolve on this planet.

conorhal · 19-03-2014 10:47AM

Dionysius2 wrote: »

The earth has existed for billions of years before the arrival of man. Nobody has ever tried to explain to us what was going on during that time.
If there was anything that involved intelligence going on then there must be traces somewhere......true/false ?
Given that man's time on earth would apparently be less than 5% of the time earth has existed then that leaves an awful lot of time for the dinosaurs....eh ?
Any enlightenment....anyone ?

Let me enlighten you so! For most of those billions of years the planet was hostile to life.
Logically, even if archiological evidence was ploughed under by time, any advanced intellegent species would have left some space junk floating around the solar system to find.

housetypeb · 19-03-2014 10:53AM

Dionysius2 wrote: »

The earth has existed for billions of years before the arrival of man. NOBODY HAS EVER TRIED TO EXPLAIN to us what was going on during that time....

Seriously? There's plenty of books and documentaries on the subject.

Feisar · 19-03-2014 11:16AM

http://www.rabbithole2.com/presentation/ancient/ancient_artifacts_that_challenge_modern_archaeology.htm

I'm sure there are counter arguments to the items in the link but interesting stuff none the less.

steddyeddy · 19-03-2014 12:14PM

Neanderthals were nearly as intelligent as us it seems. They buried their dead, played music, had religious ceremonies and now some studies suggest they may have been responsible for some of the cave art originally attributed to humans.

Wibbs · 19-03-2014 12:45PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Neanderthals were nearly as intelligent as us it seems. They buried their dead, played music, had religious ceremonies and now some studies suggest they may have been responsible for some of the cave art originally attributed to humans.

Well... I'm not so sure SE. I'd love it to be true, but... If they did bury their dead it was seemingly a rare event. The evidence for the practice is slim indeed and in nearly every case alternative explanations hold as much or nearly as much water. Much more evidence exists of them butchering the dead and consuming them(as did we). The sole "evidence" for music is a bone "flute" which now looks like the holes were made by the action of a carnivore. Tooth holes basically. The religious aspect was considered solid enough, particularly the idea of a cave bear cult, but the original evidence and dig was fraught with supposition and bad practice. The cave art idea has more legs as they have found some cave art in Spain that predates us showing up by a few thousand years. Still, until they find more of it to back this up, it could mean a) a mistake in dating, or b) we were in Europe a little earlier than is currently thought.

What we do know is they were inventive enough. It seems they had figured out a way to synthesise a glue(in a very delicate and involved process), they also made quite sophisticated wooden objects of which sadly a tiny amount remains. They also utilised pigments in some way, maybe culturally, maybe for camouflage. They may have also utilised feathers, again in a cultural way. Jewelry is looking likely. One thought I've had is that they may have even tattooed themselves. When you think about us today, there are people walking around covered in body art that will die with them. In a million years you'd never know we did it.

Culturally and socially they seem to have been a very isolated, territorial even xenophobic people so maybe their pigments and such were important to show which group you belonged to. However it doesn't look like they externalised their art like we did. Evidence for trade is very slim to non existent, even where groups butted up against each others territory. This seems to have been location specific as when we first met in the middle east we got jiggy with each other so mate trading may have gone on. Though IMHO when this happened we were very similar in general thinking. The "big bang" of our abstract thinking hadn't happened yet.

There is another way to look at it. All of the pre "us" possibly cultural/art type evidence going back two million years could comfortably fit in a laptop case and pretty much none of it is definitive. However a single square meter of a cave floor in France say that is the first example of where we inhabited would triple that amount. Projectile weapons, jewelry, needles and fitted clothing, art, lots of art. We really landed like aliens into this world. We were and are that different. I suspect this updated version of us would have been nearly incomprehensible to other humans of the time.

Overflow · 19-03-2014 01:38PM

GenieOz wrote: »

Impossible. If there was they'd have figured out a way to survive past us.
The only reasons humans are still alive is because of our intelligence, if it came down to raw power and survival skills we'd be screwed, we need nurturing for for the first 4 or 5 years if our life before we can even attempt to feed or do anything for ourselves.

You would make a terrible scientist

zenno · 19-03-2014 06:03PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

We cant find a lost plane on earth and you think they have secret moon bases?

Interesting.

It was just a drunken theory of mine

jobeenfitz · 19-03-2014 06:27PM

zenno wrote: »

It was just a drunken theory of mine

Or your are just saying that cos you are afraid us peasants will turn up at your launch pad and take your moon-ship.

zenno · 19-03-2014 06:42PM

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Or your are just saying that cos you are afraid us peasants will turn up at your launch pad and take your moon-ship.

Unfortunately I do not have a moon-ship, I am just a peasant that won't make it into the elitist group and so will be stuck here just like the rest of you mere mortals.

StormWarrior · 19-03-2014 07:34PM

There was a TV series called Life after People which showed what would happen to earth if every human suddenly died. All traces of humanity would be wiped out very quickly. Buildings, etc would all disintegrate and disappear leaving no trace. So I'd say it's possible some other intelligent life form built stuff and died out leaving no trace.

Capt'n Midnight · 19-03-2014 08:25PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Contrary to the popular idea that "we're just another animal", we're incredibly rare. We are special.

Apex predators.
Packs of endurance hunters who could use sticks and throw stones to take on anything out there, especially during the heat of the day when everything else would overheat.

Maybe lystrosaurus was super clever ?

AllthingsCP · 19-03-2014 08:31PM

GenieOz wrote: »

Impossible. If there was they'd have figured out a way to survive past us.
The only reasons humans are still alive is because of our intelligence, if it came down to raw power and survival skills we'd be screwed, we need nurturing for for the first 4 or 5 years if our life before we can even attempt to feed or do anything for ourselves.

Christ i know people at are in their 20's and still need nurturing.

Their is Atlantis and the theory that they left this planet which would make them more advanced. Another one is that the people before us produced us to become a slave race once they returned here. Going to be pissed we really messed this place up.

Then you have Mermaids- Lizard People in L.A, And the Queens Palace.

Crab people lol. Wait till i get my Tin Foil hat.

zenno · 19-03-2014 08:35PM

AllthingsCP wrote: »

Christ i know people at are in their 20's and still need nurturing.

Their is Atlantis and the theory that they left this planet which would make them more advanced. Another one is that the people before us produced us to become a slave race once they returned here. Going to be pissed we really messed this place up.

Then you have Mermaids- Lizard People in L.A, And the Queens Palace.

Crab people lol. Wait till i get my Tin Foil hat.

You are the only one here that mentioned these El Weirdo things like crab people etc... maybe you do need a tin-foil hat

sopretty · 19-03-2014 08:36PM

I'd consider myself intelligent, so yes. :pac: Granted, one would be forgiven for questioning whether there was ever intelligent life on earth, but eh....... I am proof that it's true. :cool:

The Omega Man · 19-03-2014 08:46PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

There was a TV series called Life after People which showed what would happen to earth if every human suddenly died. All traces of humanity would be wiped out very quickly. Buildings, etc would all disintegrate and disappear leaving no trace. So I'd say it's possible some other intelligent life form built stuff and died out leaving no trace.

Yeah that's great n all except they didn't figure on 'polystyrene foam' which will be here for eternity.

Wibbs · 19-03-2014 09:36PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Apex predators.
Packs of endurance hunters who could use sticks and throw stones to take on anything out there, especially during the heat of the day when everything else would overheat.

Yes but we had been doing that for nearly a million years give or take. Barely made an impact either. With all previous humans there are no obvious extinctions of fauna in an area they move into. They seem to quickly hit an equilibrium in numbers and predation. We show up and change the maps. You can often trace us in an area before you find evidence of us in an area by the large fauna extinctions that happen. We, modern humans of the last say 50,000 years are very different. We're very different to other humans that were there before(and alongside) us, never mind how very different we are to all the other animals. We stopped being just apex predators. Another thing that makes us stand out and we can include our ancestors here, is that we externalised our evolution. No other animal has done that. Yes some animals like the beaver change a local environment to suit, but we changed many environments to suit and it wasn't by instinct, but by thought and planning. We've essentially moved further and further away from evolution by natural selection. We even understand the process and named it. We're now controlling it directly, though we've been doing so less directly by domestication of flora and fauna for tens of thousands of years. If we think about that for a moment. We're the product of the most powerful process of life itself and now we're influencing that process. No matter how well Coco the chimp can use sign language, or a corvid can count to ten we're on a whole other level.

StormWarrior wrote: »

So I'd say it's possible some other intelligent life form built stuff and died out leaving no trace.

Highly unlikely. Hell we have handmade stone tools going back 2-3 million years. Even the most mundane stuff can last a very very long time. That ceramic mug of tea you're having now(or the glass of vino, beer for the ruffians

) will last essentially forever is undisturbed by sudden force. It's very stable a material. Even if it gets broken and buried and comes to be solidified in rock a million years hence it will still be made from the same stuff and recognisable as "manmade". If the Louvre was buried by a deluge all the marbles would remain, as would the cut stones and bricks. A civilisation like ours at this moment would leave obvious traces until our sun burnt out. A future civilisation that we may become that can spacefare beyond local shores would leave a big neon sign saying "Smart Bastards Were Here".

jobeenfitz · 19-03-2014 10:20PM

Maybe there were "Smart Bastards" here before us but we have not got the ability to observe their traces? Maybe some of them are still here or they slip in and out unnoticed?

Could there have been intelligent life on earth?

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