Season 4 Episode 14 - "The Grove" [AMC] [SPOILERS]

Cantona's Collars · 18-03-2014 02:54PM

Mika obviously knew that her sister was screwed up from before the world went to pot.The moment after she shot the walker in the garden early in the episode then told Lizzie to look at the flowers gave us a hint that she had dealt with episodes of psychosis from her before & was well versed in how to calm Lizzie down.

Maybe people missed it a couple of episodes before but one scene showed 2 young rabbits hiding by a log and Lizzie casually killed them.

expectationlost · 18-03-2014 03:35PM

there was look at the flowers moment in an earlier episode

Shane St. · 18-03-2014 03:42PM

I found the first half extremely dull but it did pick up in the second half. Can't say i agree with people likening it to the red wedding. Nowhere near the same impact, plus that saw the death of major characters. Let's be honest these girls have only had minor roles in the show

5starpool · 18-03-2014 05:07PM

The only thing that doesn't make sense on the fire being from the Daryl incident was the burned walkers that showed up later in the episode. Are we meant to come to the conclusion that they went to the fire, walked into it, and then walked out to get to where the others in this episode were?

StaticAge11 · 18-03-2014 05:10PM

We dont know it was the fire Daryl and Beth started, its just an unconfirmed rumour

5starpool · 18-03-2014 05:13PM

I know that. It would hardly be very surprising if it was just another slight inconsistency though and it was the Daryl fire.

pixelburp · 18-03-2014 05:19PM

I also assumed it was Daryl & Beth's fire, given how the various stories have overlapped here and there. Seemed like a natural assumption to me, so I was a little confused to see burnt walkers appear. I guess they were attracted by the flames?

DaisyD2 · 18-03-2014 05:22PM

ardinn wrote: »

I dont think you get the difficulty level of what she did in that episode, to try and emulate a psychologically disturbed, fragile emotional wreck of a person and pull it off so well while putting her own personal spin on her characters mental state is something most actors find difficult, even impossible.

Heath ledger in the dark knight is the last time I think I saw someone do it so well.

Reminded me of Natalie Portman in Leon

Flippyfloppy · 18-03-2014 05:25PM

pixelburp wrote: »

I also assumed it was Daryl & Beth's fire, given how the various stories have overlapped here and there. Seemed like a natural assumption to me, so I was a little confused to see burnt walkers appear. I guess they were attracted by the flames?

I'd say so, we saw them all head to it the night daryl and beth burnt the house. Maybe they showed up late close to when the fire burnt out, which is why they werent more burnt away

Spiderman1975 · 18-03-2014 05:52PM

If you're worried about inconsistencies you're watching the wrong show I'm afraid. There isn't a week that goes by that you don't ask "why the **** did they do that"
They discovered at the very start that covering themselves in zombie blood makes them practically invisible but have abandoned the tactic ever since and as for the prison? While the number of walkers was getting out of control at the fence 2 or 3 of them would be killing the odd one while having a casual chat while everyone else was sitting on their arse above in the cells. Not to mention the amount of times they just don't bother killing one despite the amount of times this tactic has come back to haunt them

CastorTroy · 18-03-2014 06:14PM

After people saying the show was scared to kill off a baby, I was surprised they did this. Not only have a girl kill her sister but then have that young girl be executed.

Thoght the episode was excellent.

I assumed the fire was from Daryl and Beth's place as well. Think there wre loads of walkers around when they set it on fre.

Cork boy 55 · 18-03-2014 06:54PM

THE WALKING DEAD - Season 4 | Episode 14 MAKING of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMsmPcOo7RA

expectationlost · 18-03-2014 07:35PM

greg nicatoro says 'there's a forest fire that happens somewhere', although maybe he just aware not to spoil at the time that was shot

Paddy Cow · 18-03-2014 07:59PM

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

THE WALKING DEAD - Season 4 | Episode 14 MAKING of

The girl playing Mika seems as sweet and upbeat in real life as she was in the show.

jimmy5694 · 18-03-2014 09:46PM

holy **** that was tense! the actresses that play the two young girls were brilliant!

i'm upset now that there gone

the_monkey · 18-03-2014 11:34PM

Wow . Just Wow .

F*cked up !

Took such balls from the writers - fair play to them.

I have been harsh on this show in the past, but this episode could be one of the best I've ever seen - amazing stuff - like a different TV show.

Gbear · 19-03-2014 03:55AM

Kirby wrote: »

Mika and Lizzie had shown some ability to take care of themselves when necessary - they'd already saved Tyrese and the baby. Other young characters have had far too much responsibility foisted upon them but that's just the way the world is.

You could certainly argue that they should've seen it coming but then again, you could probably make a similar case in real life - otherwise kids wouldn't keep shooting up schools in the US.

pixelburp wrote: »

Criticising child actors feels a bit redundant though, particularly younger ones who have yet to even hit their teens; often they simply don't have the emotional range to project in the way you'd expect an adult - or even teenage - actor. I think we should cut them some slack, they did ok considering what was asked of them.

It's not as if been incapable of showing the same emotional range that older people do is a problem. Kids don't act in the same way as adults in real life and kids growing up during the zombie apocalypse are a different kettle of fish again.

Mika had a perfectly reasonable inability to understand what was happening or to be able to handle that truth when she could get her head around it.

Displaying an emotional intelligence far beyond their years would've been more jarring than acting like children (a crazy as bejaysus child in Lizzie's case).

Grimebox · 19-03-2014 04:27AM

I'm really surprised by this episode. The TV show has consistently avoided some of the darker themes in the comics to date. I thought there was no hope hell they would have included this part. I'm impressed

Grimebox · 19-03-2014 04:28AM

pixelburp wrote: »

Criticising child actors feels a bit redundant though, particularly younger ones who have yet to even hit their teens; often they simply don't have the emotional range to project in the way you'd expect an adult - or even teenage - actor. I think we should cut them some slack, they did ok considering what was asked of them.

Meh. Bad acting is bad acting. These two were pretty good compared to Carl imo

Grimebox · 19-03-2014 04:31AM

One thing: had did Tyresse forgive her so quickly? It seemed a bit odd

username123 · 19-03-2014 09:58AM

Grimebox wrote: »

One thing: had did Tyresse forgive her so quickly? It seemed a bit odd

eh, wasnt that the whole point of the episode? That they had to kill someone they didnt want to have to kill to hopefully prevent more deaths because of that person (Lizzie may or may not have killed more people, Karen may or may not have killed more people by infecting them). So now he understood the dilemma that Carol had and why she did it.

gavmcg92 · 19-03-2014 11:56AM

Cool website I found recently. You can check out the performance of this show according to IMDB ratings.

http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt1520211

Chip Whitley · 19-03-2014 02:42PM

gavmcg92 wrote: »

Cool website I found recently. You can check out the performance of this show according to IMDB ratings.

http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt1520211

So this season has had both the highest AND lowest rated episodes!

gavmcg92 · 19-03-2014 02:45PM

The Incredible Hulk wrote: »

So this season has had both the highest AND lowest rated episodes!

If you watched Dexter, check out the ratings for that. As you would imagine, the final season's ratings got a laugh out of me...

tommy2bad · 19-03-2014 06:01PM

That was the best episode this season and possibly any of the seasons. It resolved some plot points and worked as a stand alone story that could have been a mess.
I can't fault the acting or the writing this time, The set up at the start played on our awareness of walkers and the memes of happy rural idils. Really good tension from the start. Again the theme of needing people after loosing faith in groups being played out this time by Tyresse.
If this level keeps up the walking dead could redeem itself and achieve the promise it showed in the early part of season 1.

Paddy Cow · 19-03-2014 06:27PM

username123 wrote: »

eh, wasnt that the whole point of the episode? That they had to kill someone they didnt want to have to kill to hopefully prevent more deaths because of that person (Lizzie may or may not have killed more people, Karen may or may not have killed more people by infecting them). So now he understood the dilemma that Carol had and why she did it.

Tyreese could also see that Carol was genuinely cut up about what she did. When Lizzie shot the people to save Tyreese, she felt no remorse. Even though Carol did what she felt she had to do, it still upsets her, which shows that she hasn't lost her humanity. You got the feeling that Carol wanted Tyreese to kill her to end her pain but Tyreese couldn't do it. It was probably a combination of knowing that he needed Carol to take care of Judith and his own guilty conscience at having had a hand in killing Lizzie.

He said that Carol will have to live with what she has done, which is a harsh punishment in itself, implying that he can now empathise with her as he will have to live with killing Lizzie, even though it was for the greater good of the group. It was a very powerful scene. Tyreese has a strong moral compass and like Hershel, he still held onto a lot of the old ways of thinking. However, when faced with the reality of making hard decisions, even though he disagrees with them, he can control his emotions to make decisions that benefit the group.

I would have found it stranger if Tyreese hadn't forgiven or at least understood why Carol did what she did.

expectationlost · 19-03-2014 06:50PM

carol/the actress when asked on talking dead if she really wanted to die at that point she said maybe yes, but she couldn't be sure if tyreese reached for the gun she wouldn't have lept across the table....

Lovely Bloke · 19-03-2014 07:43PM

expectationlost wrote: »

carol/the actress when asked on talking dead if she really wanted to die at that point she maybe yes, but she couldn't be sure if tyreese reached for the gun she wouldn't have lept across the table....

I never understand these type of questions/answers.

They've seen the script, they act the part - TV characters don't exist outside of their parts in the show.

It doesn't matter "what she would have done" - it was written that she did what she did.

Also, why ask the actor? Are they supposed to have some special insight?

Paddy Cow · 19-03-2014 07:45PM

expectationlost wrote: »

carol/the actress when asked on talking dead if she really wanted to die at that point she maybe yes, but she couldn't be sure if tyreese reached for the gun she wouldn't have lept across the table....

Personally at that stage, I believe that Carol the character wanted to die. Her guilt about Sophia being caught unprepared by walkers was highlighted by her talks with Mika. She told Mika that she had to toughen up and learn how to kill and that's what she was trying to teach the kids at the prison, because running wasn't enough. On the one hand Carol was trying to reign in Lizzie's psycho tendencies but on the other she was trying to toughen up Mika. Mika was the one who reminded her of Sophia and when Mika was killed by her own sister and Carol had to kill Lizzie, I don't think Carol knew what to think at that stage.

When Carol confessed to Tyreese that she had killed Karen, she was at her lowest point. She gave the gun to Tyreese before she confessed, thinking that he would kill her and on two occasions she told him to "do what you have to do". When Tyreese was processing the information and struggling with his internal emotions, not once did Carol reach for the gun. At this stage she had given up.

When Tyreese forgave her, it was a shock to Carol but his explanation made sense and while Tyreese will never forget what Carol did, these two characters will forever be bound. I honestly don't think that if Tyreese pick up the gun and pointed it at Carol's head she would have tried to stop him.

Grimebox · 19-03-2014 08:31PM

username123 wrote: »

eh, wasnt that the whole point of the episode? That they had to kill someone they didnt want to have to kill to hopefully prevent more deaths because of that person (Lizzie may or may not have killed more people, Karen may or may not have killed more people by infecting them). So now he understood the dilemma that Carol had and why she did it.

He held it together in a unbelievable fashion. He was having regular nightmares about the murderer. Its like his emotions were a light switch

Season 4 Episode 14 - "The Grove" [AMC] [SPOILERS]

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