Gardai brought into NUIG over same-sex marriage row

jank · 13-03-2014 10:24AM

kneemos wrote: »

It's not an opinion it's bigotry and an incitement to hatred...illegal.

I have been through this already with someone else.

"I want to kill all the Jews cause of X,Y,Z" is incitment to hatred
"I am against Gay Marraige cause of my religion" is NOT incitment to hatred.

Seriously, some people need to go back to school and learn some basic Civics.

kneemos · 13-03-2014 10:24AM

I doubt the students could have cared less and would probably have supported the Burkes right to protest but for the inference that gays are pedophiles.
Kinda makes you proud in fairness.

Daith · 13-03-2014 10:25AM

kneemos wrote: »

I doubt the students could have cared less and would probably have supported the Burkes right to protest but for the inference that gays are pedophiles.
Kinda makes you proud in fairness.

Indeed whether it's direct or indirect it's the same "slippery slope" argument that's not really an argument.

jank · 13-03-2014 10:27AM

Daith wrote: »

Having an opinion and asking people to vote on something based on your factually incorrect opinion is a different thing.

Well that is what makes a fact different from an opinion. If opinions were illegal then nobody would be able to say squat.

kneemos · 13-03-2014 10:27AM

jank wrote: »

I have been through this already with someone else.

"I want to kill all the Jews cause of X,Y,Z" is incitment to hatred
"I am against Gay Marraige cause of my religion" is NOT incitment to hatred.

Seriously, some people need to go back to school and learn some basic Civics.

Don't know what your on about now
The incitement to hatred comes from the reference to gays and pedophiles.

Daith · 13-03-2014 10:28AM

jank wrote: »

Well that is what makes a fact different from an opinion. If opinions were illegal then nobody would be able to say squat.

That's where my argument is. The family were claiming their stuff to be facts and asking people to vote no. I'm disputing their facts.

The fact that they need to bring up the "men marrying boys" crap doesn't help their case at all.

You aren't allowed to say what you want in Ireland though. Otherwise defamation laws wouldn't exist.

Squeeonline · 13-03-2014 10:29AM

jank wrote: »

I have been through this already with someone else.

"I want to kill all the Jews cause of X,Y,Z" is incitment to hatred
"I am against Gay Marraige cause of my religion" is NOT incitment to hatred.

however, "I'm against gay marriage because being gay leads to paedophilia/bestiality. " is almost certainly incitement to hatred.

jank · 13-03-2014 10:29AM

Daith wrote: »

But if we make an indirect reference to suicide would that be ok?

And where is this indirect reference to sucide?

Daith · 13-03-2014 10:31AM

jank wrote: »

And where is this indirect reference to sucide?

I asked you would it have been ok? As you seem to be ok with the Burkes making an indirect link between homosexuality and pedophilia?

jank · 13-03-2014 10:33AM

Squeeonline wrote: »

however, "I'm against gay marriage because being gay leads to paedophilia/bestiality. " is almost certainly incitement to hatred.

Well you are wrong there and again the poster did not say being gay leads to paedophilia, so you are wrong twice.

jank · 13-03-2014 10:35AM

Daith wrote: »

That's where my argument is. The family were claiming their stuff to be facts and asking people to vote no. I'm disputing their facts.

The fact that they need to bring up the "men marrying boys" crap doesn't help their case at all.

You aren't allowed to say what you want in Ireland though. Otherwise defamation laws wouldn't exist.

Indeed I dispute their facts as well but I am not looking to ban them because their facts are indeed mere opinion based on religious text.

Dispute the facts away by all means. That is what a mature society would do.

Yes, defmation laws exist but dont apply in this case as they are not defaming an induvidual or a person. I dont think you can defame an entire group either. (some legal eagle can clarify this maybe)

nozzferrahhtoo · 13-03-2014 10:36AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Comparing consensual sex between two adults to a desire to have sex with young children? I really hope whoever set up that stall got a severe hiding.

To me it simply says that these anti gay homophobes are so absolutely desperate for an anti gay argument.... but can not find a single one anywhere ever.... that they simply have to manufacture false ones.

Their desperation and need.... but ultimate failure.... to find a single cogent or coherent argument against same sex marriage says all we need to know on the whole debate. Anti same sex marriage arguments simply do not appear to actually exist.

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

(I think allowing gay adoption is a potential disaster)

How so? Except for the obvious fact that doing _anything_ is technically a _potential_ disaster. Even getting out of bed in the morning is a _potential_ disaster. The potential for disaster always exists.

But in this case specifically what makes you fear disaster? I sure can not see anything.

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I think it is a terrible idea for several reasons. I wouldn't waste my time even attempting to put it across somewhere as biased as here.

Ah the old "I have a good argument! Honest! I just happen to have a cop out excuse for not presenting it which is specifically designed to make it look like everyone else is the problem and not me!".

Blame your failure to provide an argument on yourself kid. Not on imagined attributes of those you have failed which you have assigned to them in order to explain away your lack of arguments.

jank · 13-03-2014 10:37AM

kneemos wrote: »

Don't know what your on about now
The incitement to hatred comes from the reference to gays and pedophiles.

Welcome to my ignore list as you are not interested in debating

Daith · 13-03-2014 10:38AM

jank wrote: »

Yes, defmation laws exist but dont apply in this case as they are not defaming an induvidual or a person. I dont think you can defame an entire group either. (some legal eagle can clarify this maybe)

Well Panti defamed Iona as a group apparently. Despite only naming two members of Iona, six were paid by RTE.

jank · 13-03-2014 10:38AM

Daith wrote: »

I asked you would it have been ok? As you seem to be ok with the Burkes making an indirect link between homosexuality and pedophilia?

The question you should ask is it illegal as my opinon onwether or not its OK is pointless. And anyway we are going down what ifs now...

jank · 13-03-2014 10:40AM

Daith wrote: »

Well Panti defamed Iona as a group apparently. Despite only naming two members of Iona, six were paid by RTE.

Names were named in that case. Clearly different to a large group.

Sunglasses Ron · 13-03-2014 10:41AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Ah the old "I have a good argument! Honest! I just happen to have a cop out excuse for not presenting it which is specifically designed to make it look like everyone else is the problem and not me!".

Blame your failure to provide an argument on yourself kid. Not on imagined attributes of those you have failed which you have assigned to them in order to explain away your lack of arguments.

Rationally debate and put forward opinion on a sensitive issue here?

You must be joking. I can think of three very sound reasons that it is a very bad idea (I guess I could start with saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it"), but seeing as it would be as productive and well received as preaching about womens rights in the middle of Mecca, I'll pass.

Daith · 13-03-2014 10:41AM

jank wrote: »

Names were named in that case. Clearly different to a large group.

Only two names. Not six.

We don't have complete freedom of speech in Ireland.

Nodin · 13-03-2014 10:42AM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Scum?

Are your grandparents scum, and idiots, per chance? As I think it would be fairly rare to find anyone of their age who would be on the Yes side.

Personally, apart from the adoption angle I would support gay marriage (I think allowing gay adoption is a potential disaster), but knowing how much a No vote victory would annoy people who spout opinions like the above would seriously tempt me to vote No. Purely to punish the overbearing attitude these people have.

You do realise that gay couples are going to be allowed adopt entirely apart and separate from any vote on Gay marriage?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/equal-parent-rights-for-gay-couples-256111.html

kneemos · 13-03-2014 10:43AM

jank wrote: »

Welcome to my ignore list as you are not interested in debating

The ironing.

maguic24 · 13-03-2014 10:43AM

jank wrote: »

The question you should ask is it illegal as my opinon onwether or not its OK is pointless. And anyway we are going down what ifs now...

How is it okay to link homosexuality with paedophilia?

As I have already stated, I'm all for free speech but if there was a group of atheists that had posters saying 'joining the priesthood leads to paedophilia', there would be absolute uproar!!

Sunglasses Ron · 13-03-2014 10:43AM

Nodin wrote: »

You do realise that gay couples are going to be allowed adopt entirely apart and separate from any vote on Gay marriage?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/equal-parent-rights-for-gay-couples-256111.html

Indeed. The joys of our oh so enlightened and progressive world eh :rolleyes:

Daith · 13-03-2014 10:44AM

maguic24 wrote: »

How is it okay to link homosexuality with paedophilia?

As I have already stated, I'm all for free speech but if there was a group of atheists that had posters saying 'joining the priesthood leads to paedophilia', there would be absolute uproar!!

If we allowed Priests to marry it may lead to priests marrying young boys.

Daith · 13-03-2014 10:45AM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Indeed. The joys of our oh so enlightened and progressive world eh :rolleyes:

Absolutely. Can't wait for gay pride next year. I'm going to steal so many babies from traditional married couples.

S.R. · 13-03-2014 10:48AM

"NO" TO SAME SEX MARRIAGE!

maguic24 · 13-03-2014 10:49AM

Daith wrote: »

If we allowed Priests to marry it may lead to priests marrying young boys.

I sincerely hope that was sarcasm but just in case it wasn't:

Yes because everyone who is allowed to marry is going to marry young boys.....:rolleyes:

In the words of Eminem: "I think if two people love each other, then what the hell? I think that everyone should have the chance to be equally miserable, if they want".

Daith · 13-03-2014 10:51AM

maguic24 wrote: »

I sincerely hope that was sarcasm but just in case it wasn't:

Yes because everyone who is allowed to marry is going to marry young boys.....:rolleyes:

Apparently my posting history on this topic here isn't as renowned as I'd like.

Yes it was sarcasm.

Corkfeen · 13-03-2014 10:51AM

jank wrote: »

I agree with the first point entirely.
Regards the posters themselves it seems to be forgetton by most that there was no direct comparrison between Gays and Padeophiles. However there was an indirect comparision claiming that if Gay Marriage is allowed then all other kinds of Marriage will follow suit, the slippary slope arguement. i.e Polygomy, Men marrying boys etc..

One should be easily enough be able to counter those arguments reasonably enough without resorting to 'your poster will make people commit suicide!!' type of argument, therefore we should ban it.

My point still stands,Universities don't tend to be cool with hateful views being promoted on campus. It isn't particularly nice for the party being referred to in terms of paedophilia on posters across campus. So yep,the mental health of students should be considered.

I'm mad like that, I also don't think homeopaths should have signs on a campus promoting a cure for illnesses,it is dangerous and exploits the vulnerabilities of certain groups and should not be hanging around the grounds of an educational institute. I fully support debates on the subjects to be held,no matter what fallacious arguments they use. However a poster is not a debate.

maguic24 · 13-03-2014 10:52AM

Daith wrote: »

Apparently my posting history on this topic here isn't as renowned as I'd like.

Yes it was sarcasm.

I'm only after seeing your second comment there. :P

Anti fascism Galway · 13-03-2014 11:02AM

Liberal fascism and the censorship of opinions you don't like seems to be the norm over there. A few days ago we witnessed this embarrassment. What action has the college authorities taken?

[MOD SNIP]

Gardai brought into NUIG over same-sex marriage row

Comments