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Will you eat meat tomorrow

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Comments

  • #932
    sillyoulfool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »
    It frames the constitution and sets the context... i.e Ireland is a Christian nation.

    It has no legal standing, none, nada, zilch-1.
    It frames nothing legally and sets no legal context to anything.


  • #933
    sillyoulfool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    All I see are RCC haters bashing the church when anyone else puts their view forward.
    I notice people are making no reference to other religions in Ireland and their views on these issues.
    1. Where exactly did I for instance show hatred to the RCC or "bash" it.
    2. Other religions don't come into it since only one religion has every held power and chosen to use that power to the detriment of the Irish people.


  • #934
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    All I see are RCC haters bashing the church when anyone else puts their view forward, can it only work one way, anyone who is pro religious should just shut up?

    I notice people are making no reference to other religions in Ireland and their views on these issues.

    And all I see are Christians who think that minorities dont matter and should just leave the country if they have a problem. What other religion should they be commenting on? Also seeing a lot of constitution quoting and ignoring other parts of the constitution that are actually articles and not just the intro


  • #935
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,203 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    1. Where exactly did I for instance show hatred to the RCC or "bash" it.
    2. Other religions don't come into it since only one religion has every held power and chosen to use that power to the detriment of the Irish people.

    Maybe not you, but just look through posts and you'll see others doing it.

    So if say for example the Church of Ireland are against abortion, will they be subject to the same attacks for giving their views?
    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    And all I see are Christians who think that minorities dont matter and should just leave the country if they have a problem. What other religion should they be commenting on?

    I don't see that at all, no one says minorities don't matter at all. We have seen pubs take legal action on the GF rule, the government could easily just change the laws, why do people not get this,

    I see posts from people saying Ireland is not a catholic country etc, so if this is the case, argue against the state for the laws to be changes, let the COI/ROC and anyone else that wants to debate it have their views, but in doing so you do it in a respectful way, i.e. do not attack them.


  • #936
    Joan Burtons Sexy Knickers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭Joan Burtons Sexy Knickers


    The RCC are not exactly respectful to those with differing views, are they now?


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  • #937
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I'm not Irish. You have no idea what I know. Typical Irish atheist know it all, knows nothing and wrong wrong wrong again.

    But you dont know your God is ok with slavery?
    Or dont care?
    which is it?


  • #938
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I'm not Irish. You have no idea what I know. Typical Irish atheist know it all, knows nothing and wrong wrong wrong again.

    Well if you're not Irish (and I presume thus that you don't reside in Ireland) then what bit of difference do the opening hours of pubs in Ireland make to you?


  • #939
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    I notice people are making no reference to other religions in Ireland and their views on these issues.
    Why would anyone need to refer to other religions when there is only one that is the root of a lot of issues in the country?


  • #940
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,203 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    P_1 wrote: »
    Well if you're not Irish (and I presume thus that you don't reside in Ireland) then what bit of difference do the opening hours of pubs in Ireland make to you?

    You do realise there are posters who don't live in Ireland saying that it should be open - what bit of difference does it make to them - nothing, but probably like MrsByrne they have an opinion


  • #941
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,203 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    Why would anyone need to refer to other religions when there is only one that is the root of a lot of issues in the country?

    Because other religions have the same opinion, or are you saying the RCC shouldn't have an opinion?


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  • #942
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Maybe not you, but just look through posts and you'll see others doing it.

    So if say for example the Church of Ireland are against abortion, will they be subject to the same attacks for giving their views?

    Over 80% of the country are seen as Catholics. Its obvious why that is the targeted religion as it is the one that everyone here knows about.

    Ace2007 wrote: »
    I don't see that at all, no one says minorities don't matter at all. We have seen pubs take legal action on the GF rule, the government could easily just change the laws, why do people not get this,

    I see posts from people saying Ireland is not a catholic country etc, so if this is the case, argue against the state for the laws to be changes, let the COI/ROC and anyone else that wants to debate it have their views, but in doing so you do it in a respectful way, i.e. do not attack them.
    Heres one example
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89380407&postcount=864
    Article 44 of the constitution seems to imply that it isnt a Catholic country.

    Most people dont care what the views of any religion are, the problem is when these people are told "well the rest of us are X so you'll just have to go along with this law" and when people who arent a member of X ask why cant the members just follow it themselves and leave everyone else to do what they please. This tends to get a response of "well the rest of us are X so you'll just have to go along with this law" and the cycle continues.


  • #943
    Aongus Von Bismarck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Aongus Von Bismarck


    In my experience very vocal atheists tend to be the type of people who are perpetually outraged in my opinion. They want to feel oppressed.

    If someone genuinely thinks that not being able to get hammered one day of the year is the biggest 'stranglehold' the church has over Ireland, then we're doing all right.

    The reason the law doesn't change is because the vast majority are Catholic and agree with the law, and most of the people who aren't don't give a monkey's either way. It just seems internet forums have a high amount of the perpetually outraged.

    Here in Germany where I live there is also restrictions on selling alcohol, and you're not allowed to dance in public or hold comedy shows on Good Friday either!


  • #944
    sillyoulfool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »
    It was only voted for in exceptional circumstances, which is sensible and necessary. Thankfully the majority of the people in the county are still against the abortion on demand that a minority want introduced. My opinion on the subject is nothing to do with the church btw.

    No, they voted FOR abortion, that is all we know, the rest is just opinion.
    The only fact of which we can be certain is when a referendum was held to overturn the Supreme Court ruling in the X case, the electorate voted for abortion.


  • #945
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Because other religions have the same opinion, or are you saying the RCC shouldn't have an opinion?
    This is just getting a little ridiculous now...evasive and strawman to the max.
    Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »
    In my experience very vocal ___ tend to be the type of people who are perpetually outraged in my opinion. They want to feel oppressed.
    You can add any word in there and it still means nothing in particular.
    If someone genuinely thinks that not being able to get hammered one day of the year is the biggest 'stranglehold' the church has over Ireland, then we're doing all right.
    Missing the point.
    The reason the law doesn't change is because the vast majority are Catholic and agree with the law, and most of the people who aren't don't give a monkey's either way. It just seems internet forums have a high amount of the perpetually outraged.
    Ireland does not have a vast majority Catholic, at least not in practice. You can believe it does if you want, but it doesn't. You say you live in Germany so why do you feel this is bothering you so much?


  • #946
    C.K Dexter Haven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,711 ✭✭✭C.K Dexter Haven


    Yep, 2 steaks ready to go.


  • #947
    MJ23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭MJ23


    Of course I'll eat meat tomorrow.


  • #948
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,203 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Over 80% of the country are seen as Catholics. Its obvious why that is the targeted religion as it is the one that everyone here knows about.

    Heres one example
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89380407&postcount=864
    Article 44 of the constitution seems to imply that it isnt a Catholic country.

    Most people dont care what the views of any religion are, the problem is when these people are told "well the rest of us are X so you'll just have to go along with this law" and when people who arent a member of X ask why cant the members just follow it themselves and leave everyone else to do what they please. This tends to get a response of "well the rest of us are X so you'll just have to go along with this law" and the cycle continues.

    Regarding the 80% figure, guys were on earlier saying this was a made up figure, there is no consistency in the argument (not by you, just in general).

    If you wound up by people then don't get involve, The publicans could take legal action if they wanted to, the government could change the laws if they wanted to. But the government of this country do what ever the hell they like regardless of what the church says or the majority of people say. For example, church was against divorce - but it exists, majority of people are against house/water tax, but they exist.

    Many Countries in the World have stupid laws, if you were in US, it's 21 to drink in some places, if you were in UAE they have laws that people would say are stupid, but they exist.

    Bashing the church every time you want a law change in the country is not the way to go about it.


  • #949
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Looking forward to a Thai dinner tomorrow, so maybe some seafood!


  • #950
    C.K Dexter Haven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,711 ✭✭✭C.K Dexter Haven


    MJ23 wrote: »
    Of course I'll eat meat tomorrow.

    How you cooking it? Fried, roasted? Any good recipes?


  • #951
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »
    In my experience very vocal atheists tend to be the type of people who are perpetually outraged in my opinion. They want to feel oppressed.

    If someone genuinely thinks that not being able to get hammered one day of the year is the biggest 'stranglehold' the church has over Ireland, then we're doing all right.

    The reason the law doesn't change is because the vast majority are Catholic and agree with the law, and most of the people who aren't don't give a monkey's either way. It just seems internet forums have a high amount of the perpetually outraged.

    Here in Germany where I live there is also restrictions on selling alcohol, and you're not allowed to dance in public or hold comedy shows on Good Friday either!

    Two countries having a silly law doesn't make it a good law. Why do you care if people want to get hammered on Good Friday? Either in Germany or in Ireland?

    Lets just get rid of the laws as doing so hurts no one. Also no other religion has the same influence in Ireland as the RCC, hence why they get riled against. I would also like if the WBC got a lot of support over here, or some of the oppresive laws from Islamic states.


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  • #952
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,203 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    No, they voted FOR abortion, that is all we know, the rest is just opinion.
    The only fact of which we can be certain is when a referendum was held to overturn the Supreme Court ruling in the X case, the electorate voted for abortion.

    So if a women want an abortion tomorrow it can be done in Ireland?


  • #953
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    All I see are RCC haters bashing the church when anyone else puts their view forward, can it only work one way, anyone who is pro religious should just shut up?

    I notice people are making no reference to other religions in Ireland and their views on these issues.
    Don't confuse disagreement with good Friday pub/off-licence closure with church bashing. It isn't always.
    No meat is supposed to be eaten on good Friday and supermarkets/butchers aren't closed, yet the "no meat" tradition can still be observed.


  • #954
    sillyoulfool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    So if a women want an abortion tomorrow it can be done in Ireland?

    Legally yes.
    And if Savita Halappanavar had have been given the abortion she wanted, instead of being told she couldn't have it because this is a Catholic country she would still be alive.


  • #955
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,203 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    Legally yes.
    And if Savita Halappanavar had have been given the abortion she wanted, instead of being told she couldn't have it because this is a Catholic country she would still be alive.

    Correct she would be, and in that circumstances she should have been.

    But, you saying that any women can walk into a clinic in Ireland tomorrow/this week and have an abortion is factually wrong, and anyone who thinks different is wrong.


  • #956
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Regarding the 80% figure, guys were on earlier saying this was a made up figure, there is no consistency in the argument (not by you, just in general).

    If you wound up by people then don't get involve, The publicans could take legal action if they wanted to, the government could change the laws if they wanted to. But the government of this country do what ever the hell they like regardless of what the church says or the majority of people say. For example, church was against divorce - but it exists, majority of people are against house/water tax, but they exist.

    Many Countries in the World have stupid laws, if you were in US, it's 21 to drink in some places, if you were in UAE they have laws that people would say are stupid, but they exist.

    Bashing the church every time you want a law change in the country is not the way to go about it.

    Our government tends to just kick the can down the road until the UN or EU put pressure on them when it comes to laws based on religion. The targeting religion I feel comes from it being used as a reason for the law to exist. Using same sex marriage as an example the religious against it try to campaign for it to be illegal. The issue isnt that they are against it its that they are trying to prevent anyone from doing it. As I said earlier, I dont like chinos so I just dont wear them, other people wearing them has 0 affect on my life. If someone isn't having a Christian marriage then the church shouldnt have a say on lawmaking for it.


  • #957
    sillyoulfool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    But, you saying that any women can walk into a clinic in Ireland tomorrow/this week and have an abortion is factually wrong, and anyone who thinks different is wrong.

    I never said that, I stated as a fact that the people of Ireland voted for abortion which is a fact.


  • #958
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,203 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    I never said that, I stated as a fact that the people of Ireland voted for abortion which is a fact.
    Ace2007 wrote: »
    So if a women want an abortion tomorrow it can be done in Ireland?
    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    Legally yes.

    Here is where you said it....



    When did they vote for this abortion?


  • #959
    Choochtown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Choochtown


    No matter what the figure is (and I don't believe the 80% for a minute) there is no moral justification for the privileged position that the Catholic Church is given by the state.


  • #960
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,203 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    The issue isnt that they are against it its that they are trying to prevent anyone from doing it. As I said earlier, I dont like chinos so I just dont wear them, other people wearing them has 0 affect on my life. If someone isn't having a Christian marriage then the church shouldnt have a say on lawmaking for it.

    I'm sure the church had their view on register office marriages, but they exist, if the government introduce same sex marriage, yes the church will have views on it just like others will have views, but if it becomes law, then it's law.

    I don't see the church giving out about register office marriages, they happen, no one gives out and life moves on and everyone is happy.


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  • #961
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    I'm sure the church had their view on register office marriages, but they exist, if the government introduce same sex marriage, yes the church will have views on it just likes will have views, but if it becomes law, then it's law.

    I don't see the church giving out about register office marriages, they happen, no one gives out and life moves on and everyone is happy.
    You make it sound like the church has zero influence, but the reality and the problem is they have more of an influence than they should, even today.


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