Will you eat meat tomorrow

mrsbyrne · 09-03-2014 11:57AM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Are you for real? When Section 37 still exists, allowing LGBTQ teachers and medical staff to be fired from schools and hospitals to "protect the ethos", when the RCC considers LGBTQ people to be "intrinsically disordered", when the church actively campaigns against any bill relating to LGBTQ equality... that's pretty close to the definition of feeling bullied and dehumanised by an organisation that still has way more power than it deserves.

You can change your BMI, you can't change your sexuality. Not a valid comparison.

Actually it *is* a big deal. When the organisation still has disproportionate power with our ruling parties it makes achieving equality so much harder.

If you don't like the laws of the land (section 37) then get off your backsides and do something about it! What are the teachers unions so vocal and militant doing for their LBGT brothers and sisters in this regard? SFA! What bloody good is it doing any of the whinging and playing the victim of the Church? None. The pro choice movement mobilised and lobbied and got the law on abortion changed and they didn't get there by standing around crying about it. The RCC made their position clear there too, as they have a right to do.
You have to let the other side have their say and bleating about feeling bullied and dehumanised just because one section of society doesn't agree with you is not going to move your case along.
For the record, I'm pro life as opposed to pro choice but please notice that I'm not saying I feel bullied or dehumanised because there is now access to abortion in Ireland.
I agree about the fat issue. I think I meant it in the context of obesity being a topic of discussion throughout the media. If I don't agree with or like what I hear on the radio or in the papers about obesity then I turn the dial or the page. Simples.

Knight who says Meh · 09-03-2014 11:58AM

catallus wrote: »

Christ, where are we supposed to get our moral guidance from? The local drug dealers?!!

Im doing grand TBH. Do you really need religion to stop you being immoral?

rainbow kirby · 09-03-2014 12:01PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

If you don't like the laws of the land (section 37) then get off your backsides and do something about it! What are the teachers unions so vocal and militant doing for their LBGT brothers and sisters in this regard? SFA! What bloody good is it doing any of the whinging and playing the victim of the Church? None. The pro choice movement mobilised and lobbied and got the law on abortion changed and they didn't get there by standing around crying about it. The RCC made their position clear there too, as they have a right to do.
You have to let the other side have their say and bleating about feeling bullied and dehumanised just because one section of society doesn't agree with you is not going to move your case along.

You're very naive if you think that organisations like Marriage Equality, GLSEN, BelongTo and LGBT Noise haven't been doing huge work as regards LGBT rights issues in Ireland. The INTO and ASTI LGBT groups are also doing a lot of work on the section 37 issue.

shruikan2553 · 09-03-2014 01:04PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

If you don't like the laws of the land (section 37) then get off your backsides and do something about it! What are the teachers unions so vocal and militant doing for their LBGT brothers and sisters in this regard? SFA! What bloody good is it doing any of the whinging and playing the victim of the Church? None. The pro choice movement mobilised and lobbied and got the law on abortion changed and they didn't get there by standing around crying about it. The RCC made their position clear there too, as they have a right to do.
You have to let the other side have their say and bleating about feeling bullied and dehumanised just because one section of society doesn't agree with you is not going to move your case along.
For the record, I'm pro life as opposed to pro choice but please notice that I'm not saying I feel bullied or dehumanised because there is now access to abortion in Ireland.
I agree about the fat issue. I think I meant it in the context of obesity being a topic of discussion throughout the media. If I don't agree with or like what I hear on the radio or in the papers about obesity then I turn the dial or the page. Simples.

In terms of the abortion legislation I'd say the push for that came from the Indian women dying after it was claimed she was told this is a catholic country causing lots of other places seeing us as a backwards religious country that would rather let people die than displease god.

You are free to be pro life, nobody is forcing you to have an abortion. Its nothing like opposing same sex marriage, those who want to can get married, those who think its wrong but have no actual reason to dont. Everyone can live how they want.

Femme_Fatale · 09-03-2014 01:21PM

catallus wrote: »

Christ, where are we supposed to get our moral guidance from? The local drug dealers?!!

Yeh, I mean... if people aren't religious, then the only source they can get their moral guidance from is... the local drug dealer.

Don't take the lord's name in vain btw.

Y'know, it's totally reasonable for religious people to get pissed off when they are sneered at for their beliefs and for them to get defensive over priests being called paedophiles.
But what's hilarious is religious people (although I'm not totally sure how sincere you are catallus, as I could have sworn I saw you criticising religion elsewhere; and you champion communist dictatorships, despite atheism being one of the cornerstones of such regimes) getting ass-hurt merely over other people not being religious, nothing more.

J_E · 09-03-2014 02:14PM

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I'm afraid your living in a country which enjoys free speech.
The RCC like any other organisation is allowed to take a position and comment on any subject of national interest, whether you like it or not.
I don't know why your feeling bullied, dehumanised etc. Homosexuality was decriminalised along time ago, you know. Your not in any danger from the RCC. Your not being criticised or told what to do or where to go. I having heard any lecturing on gay rights from the RCC. Where did you hear it?
Stop playing the victim. If you don't like somebody else's opinion just get over it.
I'm fat. Fat people are tutted st and discussed and told what a burden we are on the health system etc on a daily basis.
Ithe same with smokers. On and on and on it goes.
Just get on with your life and enjoy the life you have. The RCC don't think gay people should be allowed to marry. Big deal.

That post shows a real sense of being out of touch with reality in Ireland today. Rather disappointing on many counts.

The RCC like any other organisation is allowed to take a position and comment on any subject of national interest, whether you like it or not.

Sure, as long as the State stays out of it.

Your not being criticised or told what to do or where to go

Actually...I am. Still constantly hearing Catholic people debate whether I should be treated equally in society or not.

I'm fat. Fat people are tutted st and discussed and told what a burden we are on the health system etc on a daily basis

Breda is that you?

Ace2007 · 09-03-2014 02:26PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

Me to. So I know what Im talking about. Took me ages to shed catholic guilt and accept my lack of belief even when fully aware of biblical contradictions, all the evil in The OT and the pure barking mad stuff what with the talking snakes, possessed pigs, water to wine, rising from the dead.
There was a nagging fear there all the time and it would have been so very easy to not think about if and stay in the snuggly Catholic bubble wrap.

So because of your bad up bringing you think others have no say if they are part of the RCC, gotta love haters like you a thread about eating meat and you attack the church, must be a sad life to constantly have to attack them.

Move on with your life then and let others love Theirs as they want to, nothing is stopping the government in changing the laws about marriage in this state, it's in your imagination that you think the RCC still run Ireland.

J_E · 09-03-2014 02:32PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

So because of your bad up bringing you think others have no say if they are part of the RCC, gotta love haters like you a thread about eating meat and you attack the church, must be a sad life to constantly have to attack them.

Not sure they mentioned a bad upbringing at all - are they not allowed to not believe and have a good upbringing at the same time? Not a very nice insinuation. 'Hater' - yeah, because not agreeing with the Church is like not liking One Direction.

Eutow · 09-03-2014 02:45PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

You are a strange breed then, I dont know anybody who would rather working than getting a day off. You might be happy to work somewhere with so little holidays but I certainly wouldn't.

I like my holidays as much as the next person, I just see religious days off as a normal public holiday like May Day, I don't celebrate the religious aspect of it. If the religious holidays were to go, it would just be 4 or 5 days off less, although I am sure some other days could be found to give us off, such as the date of the Easter Rising.

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

Well obviously I'd rather getting it as an additional day rather than having to use up one of my days holidays for it. I have plenty of other things for using my holidays up for.

Interesting, you claim to be a practicing Catholic (apologies if not), but all your posts in this thread seem to be more concerned about losing the day as a holiday so you can play golf, rather than having any actual religious belief.

Are you more concerned about losing the day as a holiday? Ireland could make the day of the Easter Rising a holiday instead, that way you won't lose a day off.

Ace2007 · 09-03-2014 02:47PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

Not sure they mentioned a bad upbringing at all - are they not allowed to not believe and have a good upbringing at the same time? Not a very nice insinuation. 'Hater' - yeah, because not agreeing with the Church is like not liking One Direction.

Yes they are of course

Read his post he talks about evil , baking mad stuff - why go and call it that? Just let it be if someone believes no need to start bashing there beliefs is there?
Only a hater would describe it like that don't ya think?

Knight who says Meh · 09-03-2014 02:50PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

So because of your bad up bringing you think others have no say if they are part of the RCC, gotta love haters like you a thread about eating meat and you attack the church, must be a sad life to constantly have to attack them.

Move on with your life then and let others love Theirs as they want to, nothing is stopping the government in changing the laws about marriage in this state, it's in your imagination that you think the RCC still run Ireland.

Are you sure you are refering to my post . This has virtually nothing to do with it. Weird!!!

Or are you saying brought up as a fairly typical irish catholic is a 'bad upbringing'?
If so then we are in agreement.

J_E · 09-03-2014 02:51PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Yes they are of course

Read his post he talks about evil , baking mad stuff - why go and call it that? Just let it be if someone believes no need to start bashing there beliefs is there?
Only a hater would describe it like that don't ya think?

the Old Testament has some scathing stuff in it - don't think it was unreasonable for him to say in his opinion that it is evil. I would also use that word to describe the string of atrocities committed by the Catholic Church over the years myself, which I would certainly say is evil. I don't think he was stopping you from having your beliefs. You have a right to point out when something is offensive but you don't have a right not to be offended.

I imagine you may not have actually read the Bible for yourself properly.

I'll 'let it be' when it stops infringing on my daily life and laws in this country, which it is. Similarly, why can you not 'let it be' for his own views?

Ace2007 · 09-03-2014 02:51PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

Are you sure you are refering to my post . This has virtually nothing to do with it. Weird!!!

So your post didn't bash the beliefs of others?

Knight who says Meh · 09-03-2014 02:57PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Yes they are of course

Read his post he talks about evil , baking mad stuff - why go and call it that? Just let it be if someone believes no need to start bashing there beliefs is there?
Only a hater would describe it like that don't ya think?

Why call it that?
Seriously?
Have you actually read The Old Testement. It condones rape, slavery, genocide, incest, you name it its in there. Thats evil.
Have you ever witnessed a talking snake, people rising from the dead, walking on water, mystical pregnancy or such? The answer is "NO" because its impossible. You know it and i know it. there fore how can an entire way of life which even influences the right of Irish citizens who dont so happen to believe in talking snakes not be barking mad?

Im not a hater i just dont believe in rubbish from a desert tribe of goat herders from an edited couple of books written 2000 - 3500 years ago.

catallus · 09-03-2014 02:59PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Ye[....](although I'm not totally sure how sincere you are catallus, [....]getting ass-hurt merely over other people not being religious, nothing more.

I don't think anyone is "getting ass-hurt merely over other people not being religious" and nothing more; it is when that irreligiousness turns to intolerance that most people in their right minds would look awry at it.

You recently said one of my posts "got on your tits" which discombobulated me somewhat: I'm not going to waste another Sunday being mesmerised by boobs or indeed the idea of boobs!

Knight who says Meh · 09-03-2014 03:01PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

So your post didn't bash the beliefs of others?

I never referred to a 'bad upbringing'. i just said that i was raised irish catholic. You said that this is a bad upbringing. I agree.
I have said nothing about marriage yet you have credited me with saying so.
Tell me. Do you believe in talking snakes?
IOf not why not and do you think such belief should not be bashed if it is influential in such things as education, employment and rights?

J_E · 09-03-2014 03:01PM

catallus wrote: »

I don't think anyone is "getting ass-hurt merely over other people not being religious" and nothing more; it is when that irreligiousness turns to intolerance that most people in their right minds would look awry at it.

You recently said one of my posts "got on your tits" which discombobulated me somewhat: I'm not going to waste another Sunday being mesmerised by boobs or indeed the idea of boobs!

Strawman arguments left right and center...

I Heart Internet · 09-03-2014 03:14PM

So we're all agreed?

People should eat what and when they like.
People should go about their religious observance as they see fit.

Phew, glad we sorted that out.

Ace2007 · 09-03-2014 03:15PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

I never referred to a 'bad upbringing'. i just said that i was raised irish catholic. You said that this is a bad upbringing. I agree.
I have said nothing about marriage yet you have credited me with saying so.
Tell me. Do you believe in talking snakes?
IOf not why not and do you think such belief should not be bashed if it is influential in such things as education, employment and rights?

I never said catholic up bringing was bad. Please quote me where I said that.

I never credited you with marriage topic someone else brought it up

So you do think it is right to be bashed as per your last comment - which was exactly my point a debate from anyone on here is just a bashing exercise it's not constructive at all ,

Are people allow believe if they want to without having the defend explain themselves just like a non believe can think what he wants

shruikan2553 · 09-03-2014 03:16PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

So we're all agreed?

People should eat what and when they like.
People should go about their religious observance as they see fit.

Phew, glad we sorted that out.

Should but cant.

I Heart Internet · 09-03-2014 03:16PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Should but cant.

Why not?

shruikan2553 · 09-03-2014 03:23PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Why not?

I cant buy alcohol on Good Friday, I cant marry someone of the same gender, if I say something I can be fined for blasphemy (while the law isnt enforced the potential is still there), it is very difficult to send my child to a non Catholic school.

J_E · 09-03-2014 03:24PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I cant buy alcohol on Good Friday, I cant marry someone of the same gender, if I say something I can be fined for blasphemy (while the law isnt enforced the potential is still there), it is very difficult to send my child to a non Catholic school.

Exactly, this is the whole reason this debate exists and will probably be still going on for quite a while longer.

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

I am a practicing catholic and it has both religious significance and I like the day off aspect.

The most reason I keep referring to the day off aspect though is that I cont see why anyone would rather work the day and have its religious significance removed rather than have a day off in return for having one day off the beer.

Missing the point. Be honest, the latter only really applies here.

09-03-2014 03:25PM

Eutow wrote: »

Interesting, you claim to be a practicing Catholic (apologies if not), but all your posts in this thread seem to be more concerned about losing the day as a holiday so you can play golf, rather than having any actual religious belief.

Are you more concerned about losing the day as a holiday? Ireland could make the day of the Easter Rising a holiday instead, that way you won't lose a day off.

I am a practicing catholic and it has both religious significance and I like the day off aspect.

The most reason I keep referring to the day off aspect though is that I cant see why anyone would rather work the day and have its religious significance removed rather than have a day off in return for not being able to buy drink.

I Heart Internet · 09-03-2014 03:27PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I cant buy alcohol on Good Friday, I cant marry someone of the same gender, if I say something I can be fined for blasphemy (while the law isnt enforced the potential is still there), it is very difficult to send my child to a non Catholic school.

You should lobby Government on all of these things if you feel strongly about them. Two of them seem pretty trivial tbh, while the other two have some merit.

Ace2007 · 09-03-2014 03:28PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

I never referred to a 'bad upbringing'. i just said that i was raised irish catholic. You said that this is a bad upbringing. I agree.
I have said nothing about marriage yet you have credited me with saying so.
Tell me. Do you believe in talking snakes?
IOf not why not and do you think such belief should not be bashed if it is influential in such things as education, employment and rights?

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I cant buy alcohol on Good Friday, I cant marry someone of the same gender, if I say something I can be fined for blasphemy (while the law isnt enforced the potential is still there), it is very difficult to send my child to a non Catholic school.

These are all short failings if the government, majority of schools on Ireland where built and run by religious orders not the state likewise most hospitals,

Nothing is stoping governments from changing these laws that you keep going on about but them don't.

We've left it to the government to build the children's hospital and look how that is turning out - the government don't care about your sick child or where you want then to go to school - they never have whereas religious orders did.

J_E · 09-03-2014 03:30PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

You should lobby Government on all of these things if you feel strongly about them.

Ace2007 wrote: »

These are all short failings if the government, majority of schools on Ireland where built and run by religious orders not the state likewise most hospitals,

People do - the fastest way these problems are solved is by encouraging a secular state in all aspects of society. There is the same one group of people that persists in stopping this and campaigning against it, then when probed, says 'well, it's the government's problem, go to them about it'.

The same people who keep telling others to go to the Government regarding religious issues are the ones who stamp their feet in such an aggressive manner when their traditions are threatened.

I Heart Internet · 09-03-2014 03:32PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

People do - the fastest way these problems are solved is by encouraging a secular state in all aspects of society. There is the same one group of people that persists in stopping this and campaigning against it, then when probed, says 'well, it's the government's problem, go to them about it'.

We have a secular state. The same rules apply to everyone, regardless of religion. Religious people and organisations are civil society actors, no more than that.

catallus · 09-03-2014 03:32PM

It is a sad state of affairs when godless fiends can openly demand that any country should be secular.

shruikan2553 · 09-03-2014 03:33PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

You should lobby Government on all of these things if you feel strongly about them. Two of them seem pretty trivial tbh, while the other two have some merit.

Ace2007 wrote: »

These are all short failings if the government, majority of schools on Ireland where built and run by religious orders not the state likewise most hospitals,

Nothing is stoping governments from changing these laws that you keep going on about but them don't.

We've left it to the government to build the children's hospital and look how that is turning out - the government don't care about your sick child or where you want then to go to school - they never have whereas religious orders did.

And its just a coincidence that the RCC would campaign against these and threaten not to give Catholic politicians communion for voting for them? These laws are based on Catholic teachings and the RCC will be against the laws changing claiming to represent 90% of the population. Letting the RCC take care of the schools worked brilliantly didnt it, they dont care about the children, they just want more Catholics.

Will you eat meat tomorrow

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