Will you eat meat tomorrow

Ghost Buster · 07-03-2014 01:13PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

You are wrong of course. Think what you want but Ireland is a Catholic country.

Im not. You are arguing against a known fact. Ireland is officially a secular republic. The fact that you dispute this make me supplying you with a link a waste of time doesnt it.
Are you saying that catholicism is a state religion in the same way that Islam is the state religion of Saudi Arabia, Turkey Azerbaijan etc?
If so you are wrong wrong wrongiddy wrong!

I Heart Internet · 07-03-2014 01:16PM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Im not. You are arguing against a known fact. Ireland is officially a secular republic. The fact that you dispute this make me supplying you with a link a waste of time doesnt it.
Are you saying that catholicism is a state religion in the same way that Islam is the state religion of Saudi Arabia, Turkey Azerbaijan etc?
If so you are wrong wrong wrongiddy wrong!

You are right.

Except about Turkey and Azerbaijan - they too are both secular states, they have no state religion.

eyescreamcone · 07-03-2014 01:44PM

If we were setting up schools tomorrow and someone said let's divide the schools along hair colour lines.
Children with brown hair in school x
Children with fair hair in school y
Children with red hair in school z

Crazy!

But Ireland is a brown haired country - we want schools for brown haired kids!!!

Religioists are crazy!
No talking to them!

I Heart Internet · 07-03-2014 02:08PM

eyescreamcone wrote: »

If we were setting up schools tomorrow and someone said let's divide the schools along hair colour lines.
Children with brown hair in school x
Children with fair hair in school y
Children with red hair in school z

Crazy!

But Ireland is a brown haired country - we want schools for brown haired kids!!!

Religioists are crazy!
No talking to them!

You were talking sense right up to your blanket generalisation.

07-03-2014 02:15PM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Im not. You are arguing against a known fact. Ireland is officially a secular republic. The fact that you dispute this make me supplying you with a link a waste of time doesnt it.
Are you saying that catholicism is a state religion in the same way that Islam is the state religion of Saudi Arabia, Turkey Azerbaijan etc?
If so you are wrong wrong wrongiddy wrong!

It may not officially be on some piece of paper but over 80% of the population identify themselves as catholics (census) and is therefore a catholic country.

Ask any random person on the street is Ireland a catholic country and I bet they will say yes.

eyescreamcone wrote: »

If we were setting up schools tomorrow and someone said let's divide the schools along hair colour lines.
Children with brown hair in school x
Children with fair hair in school y
Children with red hair in school z

Crazy!

But Ireland is a brown haired country - we want schools for brown haired kids!!!

Religioists are crazy!
No talking to them!

We divide by gender in a large number of the schools in the country (and in countries all over the world), I think dividing by religion makes much more sense than dividing by gender.

papu · 07-03-2014 02:23PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

It may not officially be on some piece of paper

And therefore it isn't true.

If you ask any random person on the street how far away the sun is , should we take this answer as the truth? No

Ghost Buster · 07-03-2014 02:43PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

You are right.

Except about Turkey and Azerbaijan - they too are both secular states, they have no state religion.

Whoops. My bad.

The point still stands though.

rainbow kirby · 07-03-2014 02:47PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

It may not officially be on some piece of paper but over 80% of the population identify themselves as catholics (census) and is therefore a catholic country.

Unless there is an official state religion, which there isn't in Ireland, the country itself does not have a religion but a significant proportion of the people do. Also - how many of those people who put down "Catholic" on the census use it as a badge of ethnicity/identity rather than an actual religious practice?

Ghost Buster · 07-03-2014 02:47PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

It may not officially be on some piece of paper but over 80% of the population identify themselves as catholics (census) and is therefore a catholic country.

Ask any random person on the street is Ireland a catholic country and I bet they will say yes.

We divide by gender in a large number of the schools in the country (and in countries all over the world), I think dividing by religion makes much more sense than dividing by gender.

So the facts dont suit you so you disregard them and resort to "i bet if ya ask someone on the street'
A majority also dont have beards thus though not officially a clean chinned country we should be recognised as such:p

Knight who says Meh · 07-03-2014 02:50PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

It may not officially be on some piece of paper but over 80% of the population identify themselves as catholics (census) and is therefore a catholic country.

Ask any random person on the street is Ireland a catholic country and I bet they will say yes.

We divide by gender in a large number of the schools in the country (and in countries all over the world), I think dividing by religion makes much more sense than dividing by gender.

It doesnt matter if 99.999999999 are catholic. The 'Secular Republic' part is all that matters. The .0000000009% non Catholic would have exactly the same recognition and rights as all the other citizens.

shruikan2553 · 07-03-2014 02:57PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

It may not officially be on some piece of paper but over 80% of the population identify themselves as catholics (census) and is therefore a catholic country.

Ask any random person on the street is Ireland a catholic country and I bet they will say yes.

We divide by gender in a large number of the schools in the country (and in countries all over the world), I think dividing by religion makes much more sense than dividing by gender.

Lets divide by race too. This is a white country after all going by your logic.

maguic24 · 07-03-2014 03:22PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

We divide by gender in a large number of the schools in the country (and in countries all over the world), I think dividing by religion makes much more sense than dividing by gender.

In my opinion, both is stupid and only serves to hinder childrens development. When these children leave school, they will be forced to either study at third level or enter the workforce. In both scenarios they will have to learn to work with the opposite sex and people from all over the world with different religions. Why separate them as children?

I think it's really interesting learning about different religions and having the opportunity to mix with people from different religious backgrounds. As an atheist, I think religion should be taught as an academic subject where you learn about all religions instead of the current scenario in some schools where one religion is forced on you.

J_E · 07-03-2014 03:26PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

It may not officially be on some piece of paper but over 80% of the population identify themselves as catholics (census) and is therefore a catholic country.

Ask any random person on the street is Ireland a catholic country and I bet they will say yes.

How people define themselves as 'Catholic' is an incredibly loose terminology. They're often only Catholic because they were told it's the done thing, it's a name more than an attitude. My mother put me down as Catholic on the census just because she didn't want any fuss, and I'm definitely not religious. That's a pretty weak argument to be fair. I would be surprised if more than a third of the country was actually Catholic, and not just a nametag they wear when it suits for formal occasions.

By the way, don't say "it may not officially be on some piece of paper" then cite the Census.

Ireland is a secular country, regardless of whether you ask people for their lasting perceptions of previous times.

Rough Sleeper · 07-03-2014 04:26PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

I agreed they were down, but they hit there lowest a few years ago. So contrary to what people here want to believe about less and less people attending mass etc, mass attendance is on the rise again in a big way. I can see it with my own two eyes.

I guess you must have been blessed with supernatural powers like some of those Catholic saints, because no normal human would be able to make an accurate call on a large-scale social phenomenon like mass attendance based on their own very limited experience.

The problem with using anecdotes to back up your claims is that they're instantly nullified by another n=1 sample. I don't think you appreciate what the environment is like here in Dublin. Going to mass is just not a done thing with people in their twenties. Like collecting antiques or listening to Pat Boone records, I'm sure some some of them do it but it's seen as a curio rather than the norm. Walk into any local Sunday service and you'll notice two things: firstly, the Church is less than a third full. Secondly, the vast majority of people there are 50+, or Asian. I should know; on the very rare occasion I go to an anniversary mass or the like, I'm on the scope for a nice pert arse to keep my mind occupied, but everywhere I look gravity's 3-0 up with an extra man on the pitch.

For issues like this you can only rely on hard, accurate data. If I were to to use your logical framework I'd say that Burial and J Dilla are some of the most popular artists in the world as the majority of my friends like them. Funny their record sales don't seem to reflect this.

Fred Swanson · 07-03-2014 04:33PM

This post has been deleted.

WilyCoyote · 07-03-2014 04:37PM

I've never heard of priests instructing someone not to eat pussy. OP, have you had this happen to you? And if so, I think we should be told.

07-03-2014 05:12PM

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

I guess you must have been blessed with supernatural powers like some of those Catholic saints, because no normal human would be able to make an accurate call on a large-scale social phenomenon like mass attendance based on their own very limited experience.

The problem with using anecdotes to back up your claims is that they're instantly nullified by another n=1 sample. I don't think you appreciate what the environment is like here in Dublin. Going to mass is just not a done thing with people in their twenties. Like collecting antiques or listening to Pat Boone records, I'm sure some some of them do it but it's seen as a curio rather than the norm. Walk into any local Sunday service and you'll notice two things: firstly, the Church is less than a third full. Secondly, the vast majority of people there are 50+, or Asian. I should know; on the very rare occasion I go to an anniversary mass or the like, I'm on the scope for a nice pert arse to keep my mind occupied, but everywhere I look gravity's 3-0 up with an extra man on the pitch.

For issues like this you can only rely on hard, accurate data. If I were to to use your logical framework I'd say that Burial and J Dilla are some of the most popular artists in the world as the majority of my friends like them. Funny their record sales don't seem to reflect this.

From my experience of going to mass regularly in either Co. Galway, Galway city or Cork city I generally find the place around the 1/2 full to almost full depending on the time of mass (some times are more popular, sunday evening mass are often almost full with a large proportion of young people). The country churches are generally quite full with only a few seats at the front vacant.

As for age profile I find the a lot more young people than people would like to admit here. Young couples with kids, late teens, mid-twentys to mid-thirty somethings etc make up a considerable portion of the crowd. Yes there are a lot of older people but a quick scan for instance at a recent mass I would put over half the crowd at under 40 and a good portion of them under 30.

Rough Sleeper · 07-03-2014 05:30PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

From my experience of going to mass regularly in either Co. Galway, Galway city or Cork city I generally find the place around the 1/2 full to almost full depending on the time of mass (some times are more popular, sunday evening mass are often almost full with a large proportion of young people). The country churches are generally quite full with only a few seats at the front vacant.

As for age profile I find the a lot more young people than people would like to admit here. Young couples with kids, late teens, mid-twentys to mid-thirty somethings etc make up a considerable portion of the crowd. Yes there are a lot of older people but a quick scan for instance at a recent mass I would put over half the crowd at under 40 and a good portion of them under 30.

I'm not sure if you're getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying that there aren't still young people going to mass. My family are from the country and I'm well aware it's more popular down there. My point is you can't use inductive reasoning to extrapolate a nationwide trend based on your own personal experience. If I did the same I'd come to the false conclusion that little to no young people attend mass.

eyescreamcone · 07-03-2014 06:10PM

What percentage of people would describe themselves as religious if they were first introduced to religion as an adult??

Says it all really!!!

Ghost Buster · 07-03-2014 06:56PM

Jeremias Tender Cheese wrote: »

From my experience of going to mass regularly in either Co. Galway, Galway city or Cork city I generally find the place around the 1/2 full to almost full depending on the time of mass (some times are more popular, sunday evening mass are often almost full with a large proportion of young people). The country churches are generally quite full with only a few seats at the front vacant.

As for age profile I find the a lot more young people than people would like to admit here. Young couples with kids, late teens, mid-twentys to mid-thirty somethings etc make up a considerable portion of the crowd. Yes there are a lot of older people but a quick scan for instance at a recent mass I would put over half the crowd at under 40 and a good portion of them under 30.

And yet priests and bishops across the country are forever admitting that mass attendance is at an all time low. This casts doubt upon your personal 'experience TBH

newmug · 07-03-2014 07:02PM

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Nah, I think I'm going to be going in the opposite direction when I die:D

Does that not bother you in the least?

CruelCoin wrote: »

That, and the thread title assumes everyone's a catholic.

Well, according to the last census, 84% of us are.

Pumpkinseeds · 07-03-2014 08:07PM

newmug wrote: »

Does that not bother you in the least?

Well, according to the last census, 84% of us are.

Not so much, no. I live my life the way I see fit and if there is an afterlife, then it is what it is.

GenieOz · 07-03-2014 08:19PM

newmug wrote: »

Well, according to the last census, 84% of us are.

hardly accurate.

Aongus Von Bismarck · 07-03-2014 08:28PM

GenieOz wrote: »

hardly accurate.

Why?

Atheists like to think they're really in the majority, or that people who say they are Catholics are really just secretly atheist.

They even had a campaign for people to put atheist on the census, which failed spectacularly when the results showed the vast vast majority of the country are Catholic.

Knight who says Meh · 07-03-2014 08:30PM

newmug wrote: »

Does that not bother you in the least?

Well, according to the last census, 84% of us are.

An official document like the census?
And this post gets a 'thanks' from Gabriella Brief Glassware who disregards official documents when it suits.Now thats irony.

GenieOz · 07-03-2014 08:31PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Why?

Atheists like to think they're really in the majority, or that people who say they are Catholics are really just secretly atheist.

They even had a campaign for people to put atheist on the census, which failed spectacularly when the results showed the vast vast majority of the country are Catholic.

Well when you see the tiny portions of people that go to mass on a Sunday and the majority of them being 50+ it isn't hard to see that there's not a hope 84% are Catholic and/or are just putting it down as that 'cos it's what they were raised as.

Fred Swanson · 07-03-2014 08:32PM

This post has been deleted.

Knight who says Meh · 07-03-2014 08:40PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Why?

Atheists like to think they're really in the majority, or that people who say they are Catholics are really just secretly atheist.

They even had a campaign for people to put atheist on the census, which failed spectacularly when the results showed the vast vast majority of the country are Catholic.

If you read this thread you would find why this part of the census is considered inaccurate.
First of all many under 18s or even young adults living at home have this part of the census ticked on their behalf by a parent
Second of all many and possibly the vast majority of those ticking Catholic do so because they think that as they were baptised catholic they must do so despite being not in the least a practicing catholic.

I have a sister who did so until recently not realising how her ticking 'Catholic' "just cuz" mattered.. Now she doesnt

My neighbours have 4 kids all going through the sacrements for the 'just cuz/ path of least resistance' reasons. Neither parent or the kids do anything else remotely Catholic and gladly join in any church bashing that goes on and admit to not really believing in God or the church but they still tick 'catholic' on the census.

These are not isolated examples.

Listen to Bishop Diarmuid Martin from time to time who despairs of this sort of carry on and would gladly welcome a smaller congregation of true catholics rather than the current situation of cultural wishy washy Catholics.

Knight who says Meh · 07-03-2014 08:41PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Why?

Atheists like to think they're really in the majority, or that people who say they are Catholics are really just secretly atheist.

They even had a campaign for people to put atheist on the census, which failed spectacularly when the results showed the vast vast majority of the country are Catholic.

They?
Im atheist and I dont know who They are!

BBDBB · 07-03-2014 08:46PM

I haven't eaten meat today....................

anyone?

anyone?

Bueller?

Will you eat meat tomorrow

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