Dublin Camera retailers poor pricing v Internet

oceanfroggie · 20-02-2014 10:18AM #1

Why don't Dublin camera retailers make some sort of attempt to compete or even bridge half the gap between mainstream Internet vendors such as amazon uk and B&H?

I don't expect them to match the prices but if they made some attempt to bridge the gap I would prefer to spend with them. I don't want to mention names as its unfair to flame a vendor when they might not have a right to reply here. One large retailer supposedly had a reputation for matching Internet pricing refused to offer a D7100 body for a cent less than €1199 when its available for between €970 and €1050 including postage from reputable uk sites. Cost from B&H is €1050 including vat at point of entry plus delivery charge!

On a trip to cork a year a year ago, I walked into one retailer, I was upfront and told the senior sales guy I would pay them a little over the Internet prices if he was interested in dealing in return for him demonstrating stock in his shop and allowing me to handle various body lens combos. He offered within €50 of the Internet pricing I showed him on my iPad. I bought off him because he almost matched the prices and he allowed me to get the tactile feel for the camera bodies I was interested in, check out the weight, feel, control layout, etc, which you can't do with the Internet. But I had warned him if he didn't move on price I would have wasted his time, gone home and ordered off the Internet.

Otherwise how many folk walk into a local retailer, try & decide what gear to buy, them go home and order off the Internet. Do the retailers just target the small non price aware segment of the market? With Canon, Nikon and the likes of Pentax, Sony, Fuji warranty is worldwide.

stcstc · 20-02-2014 10:40AM

as a business owner in ireland

not selling camera gear btw

the cost of running a business here is huge, i could move to the uk, pay about 25% of business costs and sell on the internet

not trying to justify any huge difference, but pointing out it aint as simple as it sounds

for example just simple things like stock, businesses here are paying for it to be shipped into ireland, which means a lot of the time its shipped into a distributor in uk then onto ireland, so 2 lots of shipping costs.

most (not all) internet based businesses dont have store front(read expensive real estate) and sales staff. but instead have cheaper industrial units and warehouse staff, this has a significant impact on what they can sell goods for. because aftersales is easier, no need to have people on hand to help people as they wander in or dont etc etc

oceanfroggie · 20-02-2014 11:41AM

stcstc wrote: »

as a business owner in ireland

not selling camera gear btw

the cost of running a business here is huge, i could move to the uk, pay about 25% of business costs and sell on the internet

not trying to justify any huge difference, but pointing out it aint as simple as it sounds

for example just simple things like stock, businesses here are paying for it to be shipped into ireland, which means a lot of the time its shipped into a distributor in uk then onto ireland, so 2 lots of shipping costs.

most (not all) internet based businesses dont have store front(read expensive real estate) and sales staff. but instead have cheaper industrial units and warehouse staff, this has a significant impact on what they can sell goods for. because aftersales is easier, no need to have people on hand to help people as they wander in or dont etc etc

Thanks for reply. I understand the differences in the business models of a retailer and an online store, BUT are dedicated camera retailers going to give up and be eventually wiped by Internet, leaving the retail market to kiosks and entry level kit in the likes of Curries or Harvey Norman?

The consumer is only focused on their own cost not sympathetic to the business challenges of retailers. I suspect most folk enjoy human interaction and the tactile experience offered by a retail demo, but won't pay between 15-30% extra for it. 5% perhaps but that's it except for price unaware impulse buyers, which in fairness if there are enough of might do the numbers I suppose. If you sell a camera body at a keen price you possibly gain a customer who will buy high margin accessories for years (ie get them on the gearits chain).

stcstc · 20-02-2014 11:49AM

the problem is people dont stick to suppliers generally

5% is more than the fifference in running costs, considering the margins on hardware is minute

personally i try to buy local as much as i can, i am a small business owner so want people to support me too

adox · 20-02-2014 12:02PM

oceanfroggie wrote: »

Why don't Dublin camera retailers make some sort of attempt to compete or even bridge half the gap between mainstream Internet vendors such as amazon uk and B&H?

I don't expect them to match the prices but if they made some attempt to bridge the gap I would prefer to spend with them. I don't want to mention names as its unfair to flame a vendor when they might not have a right to reply here. One large retailer supposedly had a reputation for matching Internet pricing refused to offer a D7100 body for a cent less than €1199 when its available for between €970 and €1050 including postage from reputable uk sites. Cost from B&H is €1050 including vat at point of entry plus delivery charge!

I bought the D7100 body about 4 weeks ago for €1125 in Dublin. As always shop around and a lot of the time the price difference wont be as big as you think.

Also when checking Amazon remember, the vat will be adjusted at checkout which will put the cost up on the price advertised.

Edit: just checking Amazon now and at checkout the D7100 body costs €1083.32. So thats about a 4% saving.
even taking into account the moral argument of keeping things local, I`m more than prepared to pay a little extra from a bricks and mortar store to have the customer service they offer and ease of return if any issues.

Paulw · 20-02-2014 12:21PM

You can't compare directly between B&H and a local Irish shop.

You need to factor in things like the cost of the product (wholesale), currency exchange, VAT, etc, never mind the business costs.

Things in the US are generally cheaper. They have a larger market, so the sale price per unit can be cheaper to the supplier. B&H are probably one of the largest sellers of camera equipment, so would get very good wholesale prices from suppliers like Canon/Nikon, etc.

Unit prices in Ireland (set by the likes of Canon and Nikon) have almost always been higher. Then when the retailer adds their profit, the price seems very high.

Our tax rate (VAT) is much higher than in NY (state and local tax).

I will shop where I feel I am getting the best value and service. This isn't always the cheapest price, but it where I can get what I need. I prefer to buy big items where I can bring them back with ease - for repair, after-sales service, etc. I will buy from a local shop when it doesn't cut a large hole in my pocket. But, I will buy online if the saving is worth it.

It's not always about just the price.

basill · 20-02-2014 01:01PM

Sadly many of the mum and pop retailers have been left behind. Mind you they must be slow learners as online retail has been evolving for at least the last 10 years. There are success stories though. Micks Garage is doing well by all accounts. There are even etailers such as elara.ie who don't appear to actually carry any stock yet delivery leadtimes are not bad on the fast movng stuff.

dirtyghettokid · 20-02-2014 01:09PM

i noticed that camera cabin (swords) is now selling stuff on adverts.ie .. so they are trying to get some online sales to help out.

the problem is that people know what price items are worldwide, so don't want to have to pay irish vat+markup .. as someone mentioned, most people only care about price. they aren't going to feel sorry for, or be concerned over the costs of an irish retailer with a shop. usually only people who are in business will feel empathy for those retailers.

personally, i would prefer to buy from an irish shop, but if the price difference is massive, i'm not going to pay that difference! some prices are hideous. saw a 600d 18-55 kit in a photography shop yesterday, in dublin (won't mention names) that was listed at €900! nearly double what they go for new on amazon.

VAT has to come down. (amongst other running costs!) i think that's the only way that there will be healthy competition between some online retailers, and irish shops. 23% is ridiculous anyway. i feel more people would buy irish if they lowered the VAT rates.

Nerro · 20-02-2014 04:35PM

Really don't understand why so many customers are prepared to pay a higher price tag for their equipment just to support Irish shops???If they can match the lowest price, fair enough, but I wouldn't even spend 20e extra, say what you want but at the end of the day its 20e in my pocket, why should I support someone else?
Maybe its a wrong comparison but I work in FMCG sector myself and I am really amazed how many shop owners don't pass all the promotions we give them to consumer, but take the deal and still sell the product at higher price tag.And there is plenty of examples of them going bankrupt...because a shop down the road did pass all the price cuts and survived. To be honest I have no pity for them.If you don't know how to survive in the market, leave it and let someone else who knows do it.

ValueInIreland · 20-02-2014 11:49PM

Nerro wrote: »

Really don't understand why so many customers are prepared to pay a higher price tag for their equipment just to support Irish shops???If they can match the lowest price, fair enough, but I wouldn't even spend 20e extra, say what you want but at the end of the day its 20e in my pocket, why should I support someone else?
Maybe its a wrong comparison but I work in FMCG sector myself .......

When enough of you customers go out of business and your job is under threat, then perhaps you will understand.
I don't believe in paying over the odds either, but if there is a modest difference then it is worth it. Several Irish Photo shops have loan equipment that is available when items are away for repair - try getting a lonaner from B&H or Amazon.

Nerro · 21-02-2014 11:43AM

ValueInIreland wrote: »

When enough of you customers go out of business and your job is under threat, then perhaps you will understand.
I don't believe in paying over the odds either, but if there is a modest difference then it is worth it. Several Irish Photo shops have loan equipment that is available when items are away for repair - try getting a lonaner from B&H or Amazon.

Well if you have a business that is dependant on your equipment then that would be a major factor,but for average user, its not that important to have equipment all the time?
As for loosing jobs, if there is a demand there always be a supply. I am an amateur astronomer and 5 years back there was only one major astronomy shop in Ireland which charged ridiculous amount for any equipment, i was in the market for a mount and got a quote near enough double what was in one of the German shops and that was including shipment. someone saw this as an opportunity and today that shop is closed and we have 2 others opened.Competitive prices and brilliant customer care. The sooner It will be realised in this part of the market the better.

magicbastarder · 24-02-2014 12:24PM

another thing to bear in mind is that the bulk discounts the likes of B&H get compared to a small shop in dublin enjoys is massive. i've mentioned it before, but i've seen evidence of a large online retailer being able to retail at cheaper than a dublin shop was being charged wholesale.

Nerro wrote: »

Really don't understand why so many customers are prepared to pay a higher price tag for their equipment just to support Irish shops???If they can match the lowest price, fair enough, but I wouldn't even spend 20e extra, say what you want but at the end of the day its 20e in my pocket, why should I support someone else?

because you have after sales service for that €20 extra that an online retailer cannot match; you have the ability to go in and actually manhandle products which an online retailer cannot offer, and in terms of personal financial benefit, you're helping to keep the local economy alive.
buying local - you're helping to support local jobs, and profits are local.

the example you give (the astronomy shop) is a good example of the dangers of a monopoly more than it is an example of the benefits of internet shopping.

Nerro · 24-02-2014 01:45PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

because you have after sales service for that €20 extra that an online retailer cannot match; you have the ability to go in and actually manhandle products which an online retailer cannot offer, and in terms of personal financial benefit, you're helping to keep the local economy alive.
buying local - you're helping to support local jobs, and profits are local.

the example you give (the astronomy shop) is a good example of the dangers of a monopoly more than it is an example of the benefits of internet shopping.

Well monopoly or not but what I noticed when was buying camera that all major shops have same prices...at least for the item I was looking for to buy.not even that they had exact same promo with adobe lightroom.same supplier or price agreement have your pick. When online prices were different by a couple of hundred Euros.
So why should I contribute to shop owners wealth when he clearly doesn't want to be competitive but just looks what other shops do? Not even that some shop assistants knew less about the product than I did.
Sorry but I really don't think that you have some real choice when buying photography equipment over here.its their way or the highway when it should be the other way around.

adox · 24-02-2014 02:52PM

Nerro wrote: »

Well monopoly or not but what I noticed when was buying camera that all major shops have same prices...at least for the item I was looking for to buy.not even that they had exact same promo with adobe lightroom.same supplier or price agreement have your pick. When online prices were different by a couple of hundred Euros.

Thats just simply not true. I bought the same body in Dublin and had been looking at prices before the last three or four months before buying it, and of the three places that I looked, the prices were all different.

I also pointed out that if you took into account the vat added on check out on Amazon that the difference was even smaller.

dirtyghettokid · 24-02-2014 03:29PM

i bought my 5d mark ii body from a retailer here. i paid irish prices, to have a sort of 'piece of mind', but in actual fact the camera i was sold ended up having 400 shutter actuations on it, when though it was sold to me as new.:mad: i went back to the retailer, and they only offered me €100 cash back off the price i paid. tried to say they sold it as demo model, which was BS, and i had proof. the guys in these shops have crappy attitudes, and are very biased. (form my own experience)

also paid €100 more (unbeknownst to me when i bought it) for an old dusty lens, cos i felt sorry for the small shop guy, and felt i was contributing to the local economy, but i felt sick when i saw the same lens for €100 cheaper in another (local) bigger shop.

you hardly see any "deals". it is as if retailers don't pass on savings.

after my experiences.....i'm sorry, but fk all that! i'll go where the best deal is, for what little moneys i have

VanZant · 24-02-2014 04:42PM

I'm a longtime lurker on the photography forum, so probably about time I made some contribution!
I got a D7100 last year in Germany, where I am living, I think it was 1159 with the 18-105.
The difference in prices here than Dublin are quite surprising.
The main camera shops I visit are:
http://www.foto-leistenschneider.de/
http://www.fotokoch.de/
and the general electronic shop is http://www.saturn.de/
The first 2 have the D7100 body for 859.

However, the cashback promotions are not normally as good as you get in Ireland but in fairness they are usually still cheaper after the cashback.

Boskowski · 24-02-2014 04:54PM

In fairness now I wouldn't quibble over €50 when I'm looking at a €1200 product. Don't get me wrong I'd rather pay €50 less but I mean in this context here of local vs internet.
What grinds my gears is where the difference is more like 30% to 40%. Unlikely on a €1200 item but very common on consumer products under €300 or €400.

dirtyghettokid · 24-02-2014 05:33PM

Boskowski wrote: »

Unlikely on a €1200 item but very common on consumer products under €300 or €400.

you'd be surprised! i've seen many mid range cams going for a few hundred less online, than in the shops here.

€50 isn't a big deal, but a few hundred is!

magicbastarder · 24-02-2014 06:14PM

are those online shops generally within the EU?

magicbastarder · 24-02-2014 06:15PM

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

i bought my 5d mark ii body from a retailer here. i paid irish prices, to have a sort of 'piece of mind', but in actual fact the camera i was sold ended up having 400 shutter actuations on it, when though it was sold to me as new.:mad: i went back to the retailer, and they only offered me €100 cash back off the price i paid. tried to say they sold it as demo model, which was BS, and i had proof. the guys in these shops have crappy attitudes, and are very biased. (form my own experience)

how did this pan out? did you get it sorted to your satisfaction?

Nerro · 24-02-2014 06:29PM

adox wrote: »

Thats just simply not true. I bought the same body in Dublin and had been looking at prices before the last three or four months before buying it, and of the three places that I looked, the prices were all different.

I also pointed out that if you took into account the vat added on check out on Amazon that the difference was even smaller.

Ok here is my experience with local shops...
Was in the market for a Canon 6D and to my surprize got a quote of 1699e plus free training and adobe lightroom from ALL the shops....
http://www.connscameras.ie/p/canon-eos-6d/p-8714574593609
http://www.camera.ie/products/canon-eos-6d-free-pro-training
http://berminghamcameras.ie/canon-eos-6d.html
So off to the internet I went
http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/canon-6d-body-only-1167-p.asp
http://www.flashcamera.co.uk/canon-eos-6d-digital-camera-body/
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/product/canon-eos-6d-digital-slr-camera-body/321-767A/?gclid=CMnYyY6j5bwCFQhz2wodXTEAEQ
not even its cheaper but in some cases price differs by a couple of hundred pounds/euros....

magicbastarder · 24-02-2014 06:32PM

gunns were consistently about 10% cheaper than conns for canon gear when i was helping my cousin buy. she got kit for €2699 in gunns which was priced at €2999 in conns.

the cheapest option you've listed there doesn't even include a contact phone number on their contact page. that alone would put me off buying from them.
secondly, they're sold out. they can charge whatever they want for an article they can't sell you.

sink · 24-02-2014 06:54PM

Nerro wrote: »

Ok here is my experience with local shops...
Was in the market for a Canon 6D and to my surprize got a quote of 1699e plus free training and adobe lightroom from ALL the shops....
http://www.connscameras.ie/p/canon-eos-6d/p-8714574593609
http://www.camera.ie/products/canon-eos-6d-free-pro-training
http://berminghamcameras.ie/canon-eos-6d.html
So off to the internet I went
http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/canon-6d-body-only-1167-p.asp
http://www.flashcamera.co.uk/canon-eos-6d-digital-camera-body/
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/product/canon-eos-6d-digital-slr-camera-body/321-767A/?gclid=CMnYyY6j5bwCFQhz2wodXTEAEQ
not even its cheaper but in some cases price differs by a couple of hundred pounds/euros....

Calumet is legit, but the other two are grey importers and source their cameras from Asia. Just read what it says on the HDEW website.

INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. Please note that by making a purchase on this website you will be acting as the importer of the product for all purposes including all customs regulations,copyright and trademark laws.You accept that the role of HDEW Cameras is limited to sourcing products and making them them available for you to import directly from the country of origin.By purchasing a product through this
website you authorise us to make arrangements for clearance of customs on your behalf for the products you have ordered.

You can't expect Irish retailers to compete when they're probably paying more for the cameras direct from Nikon/Canon UK than these guys are selling. Afaik they don't give worldwide warranties either so I would be very skeptical.

dirtyghettokid · 24-02-2014 06:58PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

how did this pan out? did you get it sorted to your satisfaction?

well this was three years ago. they gave me back €100 off what i paid for the camera. that's all they would do. i just had to accept it. at the time, i did not want to buy the camera outside of ireland, and there weren't other shops that were selling for the same price.

magicbastarder wrote: »

are those online shops generally within the EU?

yes, there's a couple of them. even sellers on ebay & amazon.co.uk can have huge price differences, depending on the item. like i said in another post, i bought my 600d kit off amazon.co.uk for €590, and i saw the same kit last week in a dublin camera shop going for €900!

Nerro · 24-02-2014 06:58PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

the cheapest option you've listed there doesn't even include a contact phone number on their contact page. that alone would put me off buying from them.
secondly, they're sold out. they can charge whatever they want for an article they can't sell you.

had same thoughts as well but after reading so many good reviews on the net and positive feedback from users of this forum that was my first choice. And personally I can only say the same about dealing with him. Warranty with CPS, free shipping and really competitive price.

Nerro · 24-02-2014 07:03PM

sink wrote: »

Calumet is legit, but the other two are grey importers and source their cameras from Asia. Just read what it says on the HDEW website.

HDEW sells grey imports and they don't hide it but the body I got from flash camera wasn't as got 3 year warranty with canon uk upon registration and he was cheaper...
Still I don't have a problem with the whole pricing down here in Ireland, fair enough UK shops can get the stock from Asia or where ever what really pisses me off that different shops had same prices with same promos, what happened to shopping around?. it would be the same as walking into Dunnes and see that same crisps cost exactly the same as in Centra...

sink · 24-02-2014 07:27PM

Nerro wrote: »

HDEW sells grey imports and they don't hide it but the body I got from flash camera wasn't as got 3 year warranty with canon uk upon registration and he was cheaper...
Still I don't have a problem with the whole pricing down here in Ireland, fair enough UK shops can get the stock from Asia or where ever what really pisses me off that different shops had same prices with same promos, what happened to shopping around?. it would be the same as walking into Dunnes and see that same crisps cost exactly the same as in Centra...

It's because they get them from the same supplier (e.g Canon & Nikon UK & Ireland) with the same cost and it's the supplier that is offering the promos. It's a little different to supermarkets who are work through different supply chains.

magicbastarder · 24-02-2014 08:41PM

to expect a high street retailer to be able to compete easily against an online warehouse is a lost cause, unfortunately. you've got rent issues (out of town warehouse vs. high street premises), volume, staff costs, public liability insurance, and possible tax jurisdiction issues working for you if you're an online retailer.

what would bug me is the idea (as i know a few people who do it) of manhandling and making the product choice in a high street retailer, but making the purchase online. that is tacitly accepting that the bricks and mortar shops have a service to supply, but refusing to support that service.

DaireQuinlan · 24-02-2014 09:38PM

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

well this was three years ago. they gave me back €100 off what i paid for the camera. that's all they would do. i just had to accept it. at the time, i did not want to buy the camera outside of ireland, and there weren't other shops that were selling for the same price.

wow, really ? Was it one of the 4 or 5 retail stores in dublin ? If they wouldn't take it back I would have been seriously straight into the small claims court.

dirtyghettokid · 24-02-2014 11:23PM

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

wow, really ? Was it one of the 4 or 5 retail stores in dublin ? If they wouldn't take it back I would have been seriously straight into the small claims court.

a well known retail chain in north county dublin. it's water under the bridge now, as three years have passed, but it still was pretty damn upsetting at the time.

adox · 25-02-2014 12:06AM

Nerro wrote: »

Ok here is my experience with local shops...
Was in the market for a Canon 6D and to my surprize got a quote of 1699e plus free training and adobe lightroom from ALL the shops....
http://www.connscameras.ie/p/canon-eos-6d/p-8714574593609
http://www.camera.ie/products/canon-eos-6d-free-pro-training
http://berminghamcameras.ie/canon-eos-6d.html
So off to the internet I went
http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/canon-6d-body-only-1167-p.asp
http://www.flashcamera.co.uk/canon-eos-6d-digital-camera-body/
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/product/canon-eos-6d-digital-slr-camera-body/321-767A/?gclid=CMnYyY6j5bwCFQhz2wodXTEAEQ
not even its cheaper but in some cases price differs by a couple of hundred pounds/euros....

Ah apologies Nerro. I got you mixed up with the OP who was buying the same camera body that I did.

Dublin Camera retailers poor pricing v Internet

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