Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod warning post#7005

Devilman40k · 24-02-2014 12:50PM

Slattsy wrote: »

I dont see a problem with that Francie.

If you have 2 solid (not top top) centre halves that can defend properly and cut out the stupid mistakes then having only one holding mid is not the issue.

I think the issue is more that the midfielder is not screening a back 4 but a back 2 as

our full backs are so far up the pitch

Both fullbacks shouldn't need to bomb forward but pick and choose when to go, so that at all times we have 1 deep CM screening 2 CBs and a fullback.

Paulegend · 24-02-2014 12:59PM

Devilman40k wrote: »

I think the issue is more that the midfielder is not screening a back 4 but a back 2 as

Both fullbacks shouldn't need to bomb forward but pick and choose when to go, so that at all times we have 1 deep CM screening 2 CBs and a fullback.

fully agreed. why do both full backs need to go forward at the same time. in know they are providing options but are the 5 others in attack not enough??

Pyjamarama · 24-02-2014 01:06PM

mike65 wrote: »

Put crudely taking control of a game can be done in two ways -

One - you take control of the ball - Allen
Two - you take control of the space - Lucas

The manager needs to make a decision as to how to protect the back line (CBs really) and how to balance defence and attack - that's what he is paid to do.

He's paid to win games and he's doing a good job of it.

That being said I agree that we need to give the cb's more protection. At least until they find form.

whatawaster · 24-02-2014 01:09PM

mike65 wrote: »

Put crudely taking control of a game can be done in two ways -

One - you take control of the ball - Allen
Two - you take control of the space - Lucas

The manager needs to make a decision as to how to protect the back line (CBs really) and how to balance defence and attack - that's what he is paid to do.

I wouldn't blame him for not overly changing our approach for what is left of this season. We are playing to the teams strengths - we are strong in attack and attacking midfield. We are weak in defense and defensive midfield. Playing to our strengths has us overachieving significantly in the league this season and he might see it as dangerous to try and change it.

We are a very attacking side, and that does leave the defense exposed, but i don't necessarily think that has been the root of most of our goals conceded. Look at yesterday - Swansea had chances, but I don't think they overran us. Their goals were 1) a worldie, 2) Skrtel error and deflection, 3) Skrtel error under little pressure. A good few of Swansea's other chances were gifted by carelessness from Coutinho, Johnson and the other defenders.
Against Fulham they had few chances but two glaring defensive errors cost us two goals.

Our form this year has been outstanding, and I'd include our one defeat (Arsenal in the cup) in that, as I thought we were very unlucky that day.

It's not like we are fortunate to be in the position we are in. If anything, until now Spurs were fortunate to be so close to us. We certainly don't need to reinvent the wheel in the next few months. I don't think we have the defenders to suddenly become defensively sound and I don't think it makes much sense to play in a less attacking manner. Allen for Coutinho does make sense in certain games, but then look how Gerrard-Henderson-Coutinho did against Arsenal and Everton.

I'd have to say we have a good balance of defense and attack. Second best goal difference in the league is pretty good.

Sir Gallagher · 24-02-2014 01:09PM

5live wrote: »

I think you are being harsh on Toure, tbh.

At the start of the season he was played RCB and was very successful there until injury. Since he has come back, he is being played LCB and i don't think it suits him. Slicing the ball into the net isn't something i would blame him for (having done it myself a few times:D), sometimes sh1t happens, but the pass across the box was a poor decision by him which he admitted. He wasn't brought in as a starter but as an experienced CB to help the younger players. Playing back on the right would see a better display by him, imo.

Agger has been a disappointment this season for me, i expected a more solid display from him. I dont like the way both he and Skrtel are bullied by physical CFs and definitely one should be moved on this summer.

Toure has looked pretty hopeless of late, he's a good skin but i'd move him on in the summer along with Agger.

djPSB · 24-02-2014 01:11PM

mike65 wrote: »

Put crudely taking control of a game can be done in two ways -

One - you take control of the ball - Allen
Two - you take control of the space - Lucas

The manager needs to make a decision as to how to protect the back line (CBs really) and how to balance defence and attack - that's what he is paid to do.

The pressing from our attackers was very half arsed yesterday. Swansea passed through them too easily.

It basically meant the whole Swansea line up were left to steamroll at Gerrard and the defence.

mike65 · 24-02-2014 01:11PM

Devilman40k wrote: »

I think the issue is more that the midfielder is not screening a back 4 but a back 2 as

Both fullbacks shouldn't need to bomb forward but pick and choose when to go, so that at all times we have 1 deep CM screening 2 CBs and a fullback.

Paulegend wrote: »

fully agreed. why do both full backs need to go forward at the same time. in know they are providing options but are the 5 others in attack not enough??

The build up to the second Sturridge goal

djPSB · 24-02-2014 01:12PM

mike65 wrote: »

Was looking at that yesterday.

WTF is Flanagan doing in centre mid?

whatawaster · 24-02-2014 01:15PM

djPSB wrote: »

Was looking at that yesterday.

WTF is Flanagan doing in centre mid?

He had made a run and played a couple of give-and-go's IIRC.

He is not in a bad position there. He's deeper than the attack in an almost DM role. Gerrard, deeper still should be covering RB in the event of a break and we also have the two CB's back.

mike65 · 24-02-2014 01:21PM

LOAN WATCH!

Suso - 57 mins 0-0 home draw
Adorján - 64 mins in away 1-0 defeat
Tiago Ilori - not in squad due to knock
Ibe - 20 mins as sub in 1-2 away win
Robinson - 75 mins then straight red card for last man tackle on Ibe (whoops!)
McLaughlin - 45 mins in 2-0 defeat
Widsom - full game in 1-0 home win
Borini - full game in 4-1 away defeat
Coady - full game in 3-0 home win
Assaidi - out for six weeks

Kirby · 24-02-2014 01:22PM

That picture highlights exactly why Liverpool are scoring so many goals.

You have a Winger and Midfielder in the box, two strikers out wide, and two full backs in attacking midfield. Defend that. I dare you! :P

It really is so fluid looking.

opr · 24-02-2014 01:26PM

Good in depth analysis by @AnalyseSport on The Tomkins Times. It's going to be in parts, the first of which looks at the first ten games.. Sakho currently leads the error count in the analysis with six.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2014/02/liverpools-defending-the-first-ten-games/

Opr

Francie Barrett · 24-02-2014 01:30PM

Kirby wrote: »

That picture highlights exactly why Liverpool are scoring so many goals.

You have a Winger and Midfielder in the box, two strikers out wide, and two full backs in attacking midfield. Defend that. I dare you! :P

It really is so fluid looking.

Well I for one am getting sick of all this attacking football sh!te. We're scoring far too many goals and winning far too many games. It's not right I tells you. Full backs should be flogged if they cross the half way line, Mignolet should be flogged if he doesn't kick it long and Suarez should be flogged for not tracking back. Too much of this high fallutin' attacking footbal is foreign and is not normal.

gafferino · 24-02-2014 01:32PM

Kirby wrote: »

That picture highlights exactly why Liverpool are scoring so many goals.

You have a Winger and Midfielder in the box, two strikers out wide, and two full backs in attacking midfield. Defend that. I dare you! :P

It really is so fluid looking.

hmmm I dont think its fair to pull out a still image of a move and say this is how we are shaped all the time. Of course players get pulled around like Flanno etc or sometimes a CB might go on a run but I dont think you will find that sort of shape all the time.

D'Agger · 24-02-2014 01:36PM

Kirby wrote: »

It really is so fluid looking.

For a static picture that's amazing

Turtyturd · 24-02-2014 01:40PM

D'Agger wrote: »

For a static picture that's amazing

Well while we are nit picking....there is only one player in the box...and he isn't a winger or a midfielder.

Kirby · 24-02-2014 01:41PM

gafferino wrote: »

hmmm I dont think its fair to pull out a still image of a move and say this is how we are shaped all the time. Of course players get pulled around like Flanno etc or sometimes a CB might go on a run but I dont think you will find that sort of shape all the time.

Which was exactly my point. If a team is set up a certain way and the players never deviate from their role or position, its actually very easy to mark and stop a team from scoring. It's rigid as hell and one of the reasons United are struggling to score goals at the moment.

But when players interchange like that, its a lot more difficult to stop. The defenders and midfielders end up not knowing where to go, who to mark, who to close down, etc. and that leads to goals.

Look at the picture. Two defenders being distracted by Henderson and Sterling at the edge of the box.....which leaves Suarez and Sturridge completely free......and that's where the goal came from.

DrumSteve · 24-02-2014 01:42PM

It's almost funny looking back on it now, but I remember being in the KOP during the last day's of Roy's reign and people were chanting "Attack!Attack!Attack!"; to hear that then and to see it as it is now is great.

I'd rather play and win as we are doing now than that drivel we were served up previously. We're a great team to watch at the moment (from an attacking perspective).

Defensively, I'm not sure how they can be defended so to speak. I know they are left wide open to attack by the way we play, but Brendan was right; some of the stuff they are doing is uncoachable i.e. Skittles dragging people to the ground.

If we shore up the defense next season and consolidate the attack (kono maybe) we'll be in contention there's no doubt.

hefferboi · 24-02-2014 01:45PM

I was really surprised with Flanno for that goal. He did everything right and picked the right passes but also showed for the ball. That's not easy for a lot of full backs, especially a young lad with a few first team games. I think most full backs would panic if the ended up in the center of the pitch while we were attacking but he did really well.

mike65 · 24-02-2014 01:48PM

hefferboi wrote: »

I was really surprised with Flanno for that goal. He did everything right and picked the right passes but also showed for the ball. That's not easy for a lot of full backs, especially a young lad with a few first team games. I think most full backs would panic if the ended up in the center of the pitch while we were attacking but he did really well.

He's the Cafu of the Kop he is!

24-02-2014 01:53PM

It was impressive the amount of runs Henderson was making it into the box from midfield. For years we've been giving out about not enough of our midfielders doing this

Refreshing to see.

Busting a gut to get into the box with 5 mins to go when 4-3 up is probably a bit extreme though!

Agueroooo · 24-02-2014 02:09PM

all well and good and don't get me wrong some of our defending has been absolutely rank, but the way we are playing with being so attack minded is going to mean we are going to leak goals no matter how good we recruit for defending.

opr · 24-02-2014 02:15PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

It was impressive the amount of runs Henderson was making it into the box from midfield. For years we've been giving out about not enough of our midfielders doing this

Refreshing to see.

Busting a gut to get into the box with 5 mins to go when 4-3 up is probably a bit extreme though!

He was hardly though busting a gut to get into the box as he was playing on the edge of the box. Both him and Coutinho played for most of the game like they were the second striker behind a front man.

Opr

whatawaster · 24-02-2014 02:16PM

Agueroooo wrote: »

all well and good and don't get me wrong some of our defending has been absolutely rank, but the way we are playing with being so attack minded is going to mean we are going to leak goals no matter how good we recruit for defending.

True. We are not going to be as mean at the back as Chelsea.

With better players we might have a defensive record similar to City and Arsenal,

hefferboi · 24-02-2014 02:18PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

It was impressive the amount of runs Henderson was making it into the box from midfield. For years we've been giving out about not enough of our midfielders doing this

Refreshing to see.

Busting a gut to get into the box with 5 mins to go when 4-3 up is probably a bit extreme though!

He's done the same all season. Makes very good late runs into the box. If his finishing was better he'd have a nice tally so far.

Paulegend · 24-02-2014 02:22PM

mike65 wrote: »

The build up to the second Sturridge goal

but mike my heart just cant take all this exciting football anymore

bring back houllier

rodgers out

opr · 24-02-2014 02:23PM

Surely also in an ideal world our defensive unit would be closer to the rest of the team. That gap between Gerrard as the one and the other two ahead is a chasm at times which is where the space can easily be exploited by other teams. You would think in an ideal world for the system yesterday that you would have central defenders with good recovery pace and certainly a DM with recovery pace so we can play a higher line defensively which would mean the whole team is closer together with far less gaps.

Opr

Agent Coulson · 24-02-2014 02:27PM

Robinson's tackle on Ibe that got him the red card.

Courtesy Flush · 24-02-2014 02:34PM

Ibe has some turn of pace judging by that !

whatawaster · 24-02-2014 02:35PM

Should have been sent off twice for that

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod warning post#7005

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