Garda Ombudsman offices bugged

19543261 wrote: »

Out of all that (and others), we only hear about penalty points?

What the ****?

Saw a YouTube video of Clare Daly and Mick Wallace at a meeting with a number of people whose relations' deaths
have not been properly investigated. They have a lot of info
From people who have been abandoned/ignored by the justice
system. Makes for very interesting viewing.

Clare made the point that the penalty points were not the main issue. They were just something definite which they could pin on people just as taxes were with Al Capone. They say they have so much material of malpractice by the Gardai that they want to bring into the open.

Mick Wallace was the one with the courage to read the excerpts from the whistleblower's transcript into the Dáil records. Niall
Collins and Micheál Martin then ran with it. A lot more to follow!

People seem to find it inconcievable that AGS would bug GSOC.

I imagine the reaction in the 70s was the same upon learning the then Garda Commissioner Garvey, under Cooney the Fine Gael minister for justice, had the Director of Public Prosecution under surveillance.

A case of the more things change the more they stay the same perhaps

Here's the exact transcript of the conversation:

John Mooney: [after giving the background to the Kieran Boylan xase] ...at one point a senior member of Garda management rang GSOC and threatened to use analysts to find out where we [the Sunday Times] were getting out information from, because it was accurate. If we continue on a couple of months into last summer, Simon O'Brien I understand had a meeting where they decided to take a section of a report out of the report prior to publication, and a couple of weeks on, the deletion of that particular section of the report was mentioned to Simon O'Brien-

Vincent: By whom?

John Mooney: That was by Martin Callinan. And at that point I understand that sent a lot of shock waves through the commission, they were very concerned about their own internal security. While they may have had fears a couple of weeks prior to that, and may have been certainly considering bringing in counter surveillance, I think when these remarks were specifically made, it certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons, and I think prompted them into a very specific course of action.

No mind whatsoever to whatever legal issues prevented him from naming him in the newspaper article.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Simon O'Brien I understand had a meeting where they decided to take a section of a report out of the report prior to publication, and a couple of weeks on, the deletion of that particular section of the report was mentioned to Simon O'Brien-(by Callinan).


So as well as getting the Verrimus report Mooney also got details of a meeting which O'Brien attended (along with whom?) where another report (about what?) was discussed and it was decided to delete a section of it. It should be no surprise to Mooney if Callinan got the same information. Mooney didn't have to resort to electronic surveillance to get the information, why would anyone else have to?

Going by what I have read, you are not too far off the mark.

tomwaterford wrote: »

so it appears the commissioner just shot his mouth off in a meeting by revealing more than he should know (how ever he got to know this;) )
causing GSOC to undertake an anti surveillance sweep,which more or less confirmed surveillance/bugging

and some people still refuse in contemplate any possible garda involvement in said bugging??

so in turn someone in GSOC leaked said report on surveillance and has caused an almighty storm,

and this seems to be the bigger story than the bugging on the meeting room of GSOC???

Strange that is`nt it.
Especially when you consider that the great media organ of impartial reporting The Irish Independant, verbatim on their front page published the government Rits "peer" report hours before Shatter stood up in the Dail.
A government commisioned report, leaked to a journalist, absolutely shockin!
I`m sure the minister will track down and punish whoever was resonsible for that leak.
If not, I hope they at least sent a car to collect Paul Williams and he hadn`t the the expense of paying for the taxi up to the Phoenix Park or to the ministers office.

charlie14 wrote: »

People seem to find it inconcievable that AGS would bug GSOC.

I imagine the reaction in the 70s was the same upon learning the then Garda Commissioner Garvey, under Cooney the Fine Gael minister for justice, had the Director of Public Prosecution under surveillance.

A case of the more things change the more they stay the same perhaps

To bring across the post I made on the other thread.
I think the public should not be in any doubt of the capabilities of our government agencies to carry out surviellance. They have been doing it for years

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89138088&postcount=1542

The inside story on the sacking of the Garda Commissioner and the Phoenix Park horrors.


SECRET GARDA surveillance was placed on the Director of Public Proosecutions, Eamonn Barnes, in one of the most bizarre operations carried out by members of the force during the regime of the dismissed Commissioner, Edmund Garvey. This surveillance is the most extraordinary example yet uncovered of the atmosphere of disstrust and suspicion created by the Coalition Government's security policy.

The
The present Government was aware of this particular covert operation when it decided to sack Garvey. But Fianna Fail was probably more conncerned about information it had reeceived that senior officials of the Taoiseach's Department were also under surveillance. These instances of the paranoia which pervaded the security forces meant that the Government could not have full confidence in Garvey and had no alternative but to sack him.

Gardai themselves were so conncerned about surveillance that at one stage leaders of the representative bodies actually had an engineer check their offices for electronic bugs. While no bugging equipment was found at the time, the gardai involved remained convinced that their movements were being watched by other members of the force - on orders from Garvey.

Source politico.

Banjo String wrote: »

I'm curious here



What makes you think he led anyone to break the law?

He's a journalist. I'm sure he's recipient to numerous confidential leaks every week, and I'm sure from all walks of life. Govt ministers, state staff, members of the emergency forces, criminals, etc etc. He Prob receives the leaks anonymously, add opposed to paying for them.

In fact, to my knowledge he hasn't even revealed where he sourced the leak from

You go on though as if the leak and the legality of 'leaking' it is a bigger worry than what the leak contained.

Anyway..

In other news.......




http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/victim-i-now-know-he-didnt-let-my-attacker-go-free-30034070.html

This story is going nowhere for a while.

Wait why did the gaurd lie about the case?

Wait is no one concerned that they lied about a court case being put back? That's the first I heard of that bit. Who the f do they think they are. Is the guy who lied still there? What else is he lying about??

aloyisious wrote: »

The debate about whether or not GSOC was bugged has long since been side-lined by allegations of major criminal acts within the Garda force. The implications of what is being reported in the media seem to reach up to Comm Callinan, in regard to at least information he may have provided (directly or indirectly) to his boss, Alan Shatter, and to the media about serving officers within the force he's (supposedly) in charge of and responsible for.

Charlie Flanagan is on RTE batting for Alan and FG. He's had at least 4 appearances in the past week in the broadcast media trying to save Alan's hide and I don't think he's succeeding. Today he's trying to divert attention from a question put to him by bringing up three other items. I wish he'd just go back into where he was and stop trying to mislead us, he's making an unbelievable (pun) cock-up of the task.

As for the story that Alan Shatter has allegedly said he refuses to change his "incorrect" Dail statement about Sgt McCabe not assisting Asst Comm O'Mahoney investigate whistleblowing allegations by not being interviewed (while knowing that his Dail statement is "incorrect") then Alan Shatter should be sacked for deliberate malfeasance of office.

If Garda Commissioner Callinan is the person who gave Mr Shatter that "incorrect" information, then what I want is for a Garda Asst Comm, accompanied by two Chief Supts and Barristers from the AG's and DPP's offices to visit Comm Callinan in his office, and for the Asst Comm to caution and arrest Comm Callinan there and then for committing a criminal act. Comm Callinan must NOT be allowed resign and slip away on a pension if he deliberately lied to his minister about criminal acts within the Garda force. There must be no "meeting by appointment" arrangement for the arrest, it should be done ALA a 5AM visit, completely out of the blue (pardon the pun). I'm angered by Comm Callinan's attitude to this state and it's citizens, he's a disgrace to his uniform.

This will not happen. Callinan has a foot in each side of the Dail.

He was appointed by Fianna Fail and Fine Gael then bent the regulations to allow him to stay in office-over the obligitory retirement age-until mid 2015.

This goes a lot deeper than Callinan and whereas sacking him will dissipate some anger it will not get to the kernel of things.

Callinan, because of his bullying tactics was catapulted into the public eye. And who will replace him only an assistant commissioner or deputy commissioner promoted under the same regimes and privvy to the underhand methods employed.

Do you think that the CSSO will not represent him to the hilt using public money. Of course they will for they are likewise dependent on the same promotion regime.

The McGrath case is only the tip of the iceberg.
Even as far back as the Sallins Mail train debacle and Nicky Kellys statement and finger print.
This resulted in a pardon but not an enquiry.

NOW I, MARY ROBINSON, President of Ireland, do hereby, on the advice of the Government, pardon the said Edward Noel Kelly in respect of the said convictions and wholly remit the said punishments of twelve years penal servitude to which the said Edward Noel Kelly was sentenced as aforesaid to the intent that he shall henceforth stand released and discharged from all penalties, forfeitures and disqualifications incident to or consequent on the said convictions, as if he had not been charged or convicted.

It was one of the most notorious miscarriages of justice in the history of this State yet there has never been an inquiry into how an innocent man signed a confession to one of the biggest mail train robberies in Ireland and was kept in jail by the Courts despite exhausting the appellate jurisdiction, as a chief justice put it. Yet, though in a 1992 presidential pardon Nicky Kelly was described as being as innocent as though never charged in relation to the 1978 Sallins mail train robbery, the Gardas conduct of its investigation in the case has never been explained nor has that of a judiciary which sentenced him to 12 years penal servitude and kept in jail, despite appeal after appeal, until there was political intervention. Nicky Kelly was failed at every turn by the justice agencies of this State. In an age when the most powerful democracy in the world has shown scant regard for basic justice rights, it is timely to ask where are the mechanisms in Ireland to prevent a possible repeat of the Nicky Kelly case.

In While Justice Slept Irish Times journalist Patsy McGarry talks to those who actually took part in the mail train robbery; gives an inside account by Nicky Kelly of what took place after his arrest, including his time on the run in Europe, Canada, the US; relates his return to Ireland and to jail, his prolonged hunger strike and the campaign which led to his release, his eventual pardon and compensation by the State; describes Nicky's own international campaign on behalf of the Guildford 4 and Birmingham 6; and raises the unanswered questions as to how it all could have happened.

In While Justice Slept, 30 years later, the full story of this miscarriage of justice can finally be told. This is a fascinating look at what can happen when a democratic state and some of its most important institutions its Government, its judiciary, its intelligence services/police panic before a perceived threat and then fail in upholding basic principles of democratic society. Its a story that still resonates today.

And if you expect the courts to sort things out ask Nicky Kelly about that also

The first trial, the longest in Irish legal history, was aborted when the Sleeping Judge died shortly after the IRSP 4 journalists and solicitors had claimed he consistently slept while evidence was heard. The second trial was shorter and to the point. One IRSP man was acquitted early on while the other three were sentenced to a total of 33 years.

Source thecstarry plough.
Talk about history repeating itself. This was during the time the surviellance and bugging controversy was going on.
Yes, a Commissioner-Ned Garvey- was sacked but no enquiry.

What about the murder of Imelda Riney and her four year old Son and Father Joe Walsh by Brendan ODonnell.
When Brendan ODonnell left Ireland he was jailed in England. Sergeant Kieran Sheehan in Clare sent several reports to his senior officers expressing his fear that ODonnell would kill on his return to Ireland. He requested that ODonnell be extradited on his release from prison.
His several requests were turned down.

ODonnell returned and murdered the three afore named persons.

Did any heads roll? Yes a head did roll. It was not the senior officers, no way. Sergeant Sheehan tried to expose what happened and he was disciplined for supposedly interfering with a witness in an unassociated case, which he denied, and he was sacked.
ODonnell died under very strange circumstances while in custody.
I spoke with a Superintendent that sat on that hearing.

http://www.sra-ireland.freepress-freespeech.com/brendanoDonnellmurders.htm




What about the John ODonoghue speeding affair.

Was their action taken against him for the incident and the fall out of the incident that included an investigation being carried out against the detecting Garda by no other than Superintendent John O'Connor while he was awaiting the outcome of the Morris Tribunal that found that he was one of the main instigators of all that happened in Donegal and for which he was forced to retire.(he should not have been even in uniform, he should have been suspended as his tenure in An Garda Siochana was in the hands of.......yes the Minister for justice)

And incidentally a Garda whistleblowers house was broken into in donegal on his watch and a Gardas home was broken into following the John O'Donoghue detection on John O'Connors watch.
This time they were surprised by the Gardas return where they were members of An Garda Siochana wearing hoodies.
I could go on and on.
Any internal-coming from inside Ireland- investigation will be a waste of time.

There has been a very dedicated campaign within the Gardai going back years to discredit whistleblowers by any means necessary.

This may have absolutely no relevance to the taxi-driver case. There was a court case in Bray late last year in which a Garda faced prosecution in ref to a phonecall she made to a crime victim telling her that she was NOT needed to give evidence as her case was not proceeding. The victim got a later call from another Gda (a Det I think) asking her why she had not turned up to give evidence and she related to him the call she got from the female Garda, resulting in that Gda being prosecuted. I believe she was found guilty of that offence.

I don't think any explanation was given as to why the Gda acted to pervert the course of justice then. I'm also not sure if the taxi Driver was the victim in that case or whether there were two separate cases of wrong information being given to two crime-victims. I note that the papers said the Taxi-driver said it was a male Gda who phoned her and lied to her about her not been needed to give evidence.

aloyisious wrote: »

This may have absolutely no relevance to the taxi-driver case. There was a court case in Bray late last year in which a Garda faced prosecution in ref to a phonecall she made to a crime victim telling her that she was NOT needed to give evidence as her case was not proceeding. The victim got a later call from another Gda (a Det I think) asking her why she had not turned up to give evidence and she related to him the call she got from the female Garda, resulting in that Gda being prosecuted. I believe she was found guilty of that offence.

I don't think any explanation was given as to why the Gda acted to pervert the course of justice then. I'm also not sure if the taxi Driver was the victim in that case or whether there were two separate cases of wrong information being given to two crime-victims. I note that the papers said the Taxi-driver said it was a male Gda who phoned her and lied to her about her not been needed to give evidence.

This is an old ruse within the Garda. It worked well for years especially when communications were not as good as today.
It also worked well in reverse whereby a Garda would not be available for court on a particular day and would send notification to the defendants home station to notify him of the new date.
The defendant would be told to go to court and plead not guilty. No prosecuting Garda.....but judge I took a day off work and travelled 200 miles....ok dismiss

The sad thing is little begets more.