Can you afford this?

PLUG71 · 21-02-2014 05:10PM #1

According to the radio if we do not buy our own cover it will be stopped at source!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/reilly-s-proposals-would-radically-change-the-irish-healthcare-system-1.1699344

MODS:- Please move if this is in the incorrect place!

reprazant · 21-02-2014 05:12PM

I already have my own so yes, I can and do afford it.

SEPT 23 1989 · 21-02-2014 05:15PM

So its just another tax then

keeponhurling · 21-02-2014 05:16PM

This is what they do in the Netherlands and I believe it actually works quite well

maximoose · 21-02-2014 05:16PM

I'd need to know what it's going to cost before I can answer your question...

vitani · 21-02-2014 05:17PM

I presume that will be on top of PRSI contributions :rolleyes:

Tazz T · 21-02-2014 05:17PM

It's essentially a new tax to pay for healthcare. Ridiculous.

He seems to be omitting the fact that we already pay this through PRSI. Will this be cut?

uck51js9zml2yt · 21-02-2014 05:17PM

Works well in Slovakia as well. Everyone pays a private company and they get cover in the public system. prescriptions are also a lot less if you can show your card.
If you've no insurance, you pay for the hospital service.

Frosty McSnowballs · 21-02-2014 05:20PM

Fcuk off Reilly!

Crann na Beatha · 21-02-2014 05:21PM

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Gone Drinking · 21-02-2014 05:24PM

This is how its done in all the countries in Europe, pretty much. Works really really well. No doubt they'll manage to make sihte of it somehow.

I'm lucky, the company I works for pays for my and my girlfriends health insurance.

Crann na Beatha · 21-02-2014 05:24PM

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darkpagandeath · 21-02-2014 05:27PM

So PAYE is getting lowered then .. as your paying for your own health cover ? You know just like the property tax went to local services like they said........ Oh and like the water charge will go to the production of our water....

RainMaker · 21-02-2014 05:27PM

Well what exactly do you get for the tax you already pay?

Do you think another tax will actually improve the health service? Or like everything else will they just squander it on consultants and administration that's not needed in the first place. If he really wanted to improve the health service, he would dismantle the monstrosity that is the HSE - serves no purpose that I can see other than to drain resources and to ensure there is no accountability.

Just another example of the elite sharing Ireland's resources out among their buddies and then charging you for the privilege.

Davarus Walrus · 21-02-2014 05:28PM

It can't be any worse than the current system where you pay thousands in tax every year for a bloated and inefficient health service, then also have to pay for private health insurance to actually get some use out of it.

Arthur Beesley · 21-02-2014 05:28PM

We need clarity on how it fits in with the current funding of the Health system.

Not sure if PRSI funds health system, I thought it was funded by PAYE, with PRSI ring fenced for social welfare and pensions etc.

Riskymove · 21-02-2014 05:28PM

Tazz T wrote: »

It's essentially a new tax to pay for healthcare. Ridiculous.

He seems to be omitting the fact that we already pay this through PRSI. Will this be cut?

PRSI? No

although PAYE and taxation generally is paid into the healthcare service

if done correclty (big IF) if everyone had insurance and was treated as a private patient we would need to put a lot less of general taxes into the system

of course its still a case of us paying for it and indeed...paying for others etc

Tilly · 21-02-2014 05:29PM

My employer pays for mine and if they didn't I wouldn't buy my own so this is totally unfair to those who cannot afford it. Are they going to abolish the property tax and water charges so people can afford it? Nope. Another way to bleed us dry.

Arthur Beesley · 21-02-2014 05:30PM

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

It can't be any worse than the current system where you pay thousands in tax every year for a bloated and inefficient health service, then also have to pay for private health insurance to actually get some use out of it.

I wouldn't be do sure of that. A significant % of people won't be paying this (think the number of people getting free travel etc). The taxpayer will fund their cover.

Arthur Beesley · 21-02-2014 05:32PM

Riskymove wrote: »

PRSI? No

although PAYE and taxation generally is paid into the healthcare service

if done correclty (big IF) if everyone had insurance and was treated as a private patient we would need to put a lot less of general taxes into the system

of course its still a case of us paying for it and indeed...paying for others etc

Exactly. If you can afford it, you will pay for yourself and those that can't afford it.

ScumLord · 21-02-2014 05:32PM

I not against restructuring the way our health system works, I think it's misleading that some people call it a free health service, it's not. We pay for it now one way or another so if the government want to rearrange the way they collect and pay for the health service I'm not against it.

It might be beneficial for the entire country to go through private health insurance. Maybe they'll be better at managing it than the government have been to date. But I think it should be a case we stop paying current taxes and instead get to spend that money directly on our health insurance instead of doubling up on it with a private company.

Private companies deal with this stuff on a daily basis, it's their bread and butter, maybe it's time we handed it over to the experts instead of waiting for the government to figure out a way of doing it.

Riskymove · 21-02-2014 05:34PM

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Exactly. If you can afford it, you will pay for yourself and those that can't afford it.

yes but in this plan we all pay it

(I believe subsidies for low paid workers are included)

Uriel. · 21-02-2014 05:34PM

I look forward to seeing the white paper on this.

To try to fix the health system in any country, especially Ireland, is mammoth task.

Healthcare has to affordable for the citizen and the state.
it has to be quality healthcare - there's no point in abolishing a two tier system to be replaced with a system where everyone has to sit on trollies or wait a year (or more) for important diagnostic and treatment services.

Personally, I wouldn't even know where to begin in developing such a coherent and quality system, so it'll be an interesting read as to how this is gonna work and the books or gonna balance.

Uriel. · 21-02-2014 05:37PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I not against restructuring the way our health system works, I think it's misleading that some people call it a free health service, it's not. We pay for it now one way or another so if the government want to rearrange the way they collect and pay for the health service I'm not against it.

It might be beneficial for the entire country to go through private health insurance. Maybe they'll be better at managing it than the government have been to date. But I think it should be a case we stop paying current taxes and instead get to spend that money directly on our health insurance instead of doubling up on it with a private company.

Private companies deal with this stuff on a daily basis, it's their bread and butter, maybe it's time we handed it over to the experts instead of waiting for the government to figure out a way of doing it.

No issue with that in principle. But while the private insurance companies who have the expertise in this area can manage certain parts of the system, the system itself, as in stuff from how hospitals are ran, to doctor's/nurse's wages, the equipment used, the location and amount of hospitals/clinics needs to be better ran too.

How to get a coherent all singing and dancing system is difficult and that's before you even bring in the pharma companies etc.

darkpagandeath · 21-02-2014 05:38PM

Uriel. wrote: »

I look forward to seeing the white paper on this.

To try to fix the health system in any country, especially Ireland, is mammoth task.

Healthcare has to affordable for the citizen and the state.
it has to be quality healthcare - there's no point in abolishing a two tier system to be replaced with a system where everyone has to sit on trollies or wait a year (or more) for important diagnostic and treatment services.

Personally, I wouldn't even know where to begin in developing such a coherent and quality system, so it'll be an interesting read as to how this is gonna work and the books or gonna balance.

Well the governments view is chucking increasingly large amount of tax payers money into a black hole.

Arthur Beesley · 21-02-2014 05:39PM

Riskymove wrote: »

yes but in this plan we all pay it

(I believe subsidies for low paid workers are included)

What about the unemployed, pensioners, those on disability etc.

They won't pay. We will pay extra to cover them. Or their state subsidies will be increased to take account of and offset any payment they are expected to make. Either way the taxpayer subsidies them.

SEPT 23 1989 · 21-02-2014 05:39PM

How much is this going to cost the taxpayer in consultancy fees peddling their best international practice horse****e before this is eventually scrapped?

Lawrence1895 · 21-02-2014 05:40PM

Tilly wrote: »

My employer pays for mine and if they didn't I wouldn't buy my own so this is totally unfair to those who cannot afford it. Are they going to abolish the property tax and water charges so people can afford it? Nope. Another way to bleed us dry.

May I ask, who that generous employer is? Or what sector? I only know, that the costs for schemes like this are halved between employer and employee.

quickbeam · 21-02-2014 05:41PM

And here's another reason not to vote for this shower next time around!

ScumLord · 21-02-2014 05:43PM

Uriel. wrote: »

No issue with that in principle. But while the private insurance companies who have the expertise in this area can manage certain parts of the system, the system itself, as in stuff from how hospitals are ran, to doctor's/nurse's wages, the equipment used, the location and amount of hospitals/clinics needs to be better ran too.

That's true but I also think private health insurance companies could help improve things there. They're much more aggressive about targets and could light a fire under hospitals forcing them to improve.

The big worry with private companies is that they'd just cheapen everything and go for the profit, but companies today have kind of gone through that era of profit above people and have put in practices to control themselves better due to being more closely watched.

darkpagandeath · 21-02-2014 05:43PM

quickbeam wrote: »

And here's another reason not to vote for this shower next time around!

But But the Troika made us do it .....

Can you afford this?

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