The Jobbridge Scandal

Quazzie · 21-02-2014 12:22PM

Xios wrote: »

No, no they shouldn't. This is creating incentive's for having people on the welfare, meaning, if you have people on welfare you can get cheap labour, so why bother helping to generate jobs when you can have people on welfare and just keep them working for nothing.

It's similar to privatized prisons, in the sense that there's an incentive to have the prison full to turn a profit, which in way would increase incarceration rates disproportional to the crimes being committed, so people would be sentenced to server time for minor criminal charges.

Its discourages long term deliberate unemployment which is a genuine and substantial problem Ireland. It has already been stated that the new positions are not infringing on any current or proposed jobs so how is it preventing the Government from employing people.

You really think that Government is really going to hold back on job creation so that they can get some long term dole heads to go out and pick weeds and clean up in the local park?

Xios · 21-02-2014 12:33PM

Quazzie wrote: »

You really think that Government is really going to hold back on job creation so that they can get some long term dole heads to go out and pick weeds and clean up in the local park?

Yes, yes I do.

Edit:/ The problem here is that councils have roles that they need to fill, but are under an employment ban. This scheme is entirely just a loophole to get people working for them, nothing more. The fact that they want people to "work for their dole" is just a ruse. Why not just force people to take up voluntary work in any field, why just government positions?

Xenji · 21-02-2014 12:35PM

Quazzie wrote: »

Its discourages long term deliberate unemployment which is a genuine and substantial problem Ireland. It has already been stated that the new positions are not infringing on any current or proposed jobs so how is it preventing the Government from employing people.

You really think that Government is really going to hold back on job creation so that they can get some long term dole heads to go out and pick weeds and clean up in the local park?

It is one thing for them to be out cleaning the streets, but if they are working as office workers, then they are hold back on job creation as the majority of councils are cry out for full time staff, but due to the moratorium on hiring in the majority of councils this cannot happen.

21-02-2014 12:38PM

kylith wrote: »

No it isn't it's forcing people into below minimum wage jobs. They should lift their hiring freeze and actually employ people, that's the only way to get people off the live register.

The least they earn is €10.67 per hour. They keep all associated benefits, medical card, rent relief erc.
However, I DO agree that it is disgraceful and they should be offered permanent jobs at the going rate.

Daith · 21-02-2014 12:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The least they earn is €10.67 per hour.

How much is that minus the commute costs to get to work?

22 months does seem rather high too though.

On the other hand people who are over 2 years unemployed shouldn't really be getting money for nothing.

Quazzie · 21-02-2014 12:50PM

Daith wrote: »

On the other hand people who are over 2 years unemployed shouldn't really be getting money for nothing.

Exactly. There are people in this country who never have, or never intend to, work a day in their life.

PopePalpatine · 21-02-2014 12:52PM

Who actually believes that you can suddenly encourage the stereotypical "dole scrounger" to work by giving them an extra €20/50 per week on top of their dole? It is the height of naivety, fueled by shit-tier tabloids.

Daith · 21-02-2014 12:55PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Who actually believes that you can suddenly encourage the stereotypical "dole scrounger" to work by giving them an extra €20/50 per week on top of their dole? It is the height of naivety, fueled by shit-tier tabloids.

Yes true. This would also remove those long term unemployed from the live register for two years also.

Cantona's Collars · 21-02-2014 12:57PM

Xenji wrote: »

It a terrible idea, my council needs at least 200 full time staff to be hired, the workload we are dealing with is crazy due to the hiring freeze. We have had well over 100 interns in on JobBridge that are meant to have 3rd level qualifications and we have barely time to train them or look after them. It will be worse if people are coming in with just a leaving cert or less as we cannot mollycoddle them and it is taking real jobs away. It is ridiculous enough that we are not able to take well qualified staff on at the end of a JobBridge, but this shows to me that the freeze on hiring will be extended yet again.

The council workers on the frontline would rather have lads hired who have some prospect of getting a long term job from their time there.What's the point in taking on people of whom the majority have zero interest in being in the position & are only doing it to avoid having their dole cut.
Speaking to guys working in my local Council,they are dismayed that lads on contracts are being let go & replaced by others on this scheme instead of extending the contracts of those there who are actually doing decent work.As you said it just means an influx of people who need to be babysat.

cletus van damme · 21-02-2014 01:12PM

Quazzie wrote: »

Exactly. There are people in this country who never have, or never intend to, work a day in their life.

yes about 40000 (figures release in 2013) out of 400,000 and I'd argue the remaining 360,000 are interchangeable (i.e. not the same people all the time)

according to these figures jan 2014 - 54.5% of people are short term claimants. So you propose punishing short term claimaints in order to feel smug about getting wasters working - digging weeds.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/unemployment-rate

I'm sure you'll argue 40,000 is quite high. However you need to bear in mind that in that 40,000 there are people who are unemployable for various reasons illness , drug addiction , mental incapable, single parents who have kids, criminals with records or active criminals.
Out of an overall popluation it's not huge and of course people who have finsihed school or college and can't get a job.

Now in case you wonder why sick people are on the dole and not on sick benefit - there is a policy in the SW to kick people who are sick off the sick benefit onto the dole - I'm guessing it's easier to make their life difficult on the dole and hopefully they'll go away.

i know this happened to two people I'm close too - called in for an interview , general questions about their lives no speifics about their illness, no acceptance of medical reports and then two weeks later a letter saying illness benefit is cut off.

So you're talking about a small section of society but wanting to drag everybody down cos of them

Jawgap · 21-02-2014 01:15PM

kylith wrote: »

No it isn't it's forcing people into below minimum wage jobs. They should lift their hiring freeze and actually employ people, that's the only way to get people off the live register.

They should do both - no reason why anyone should get money for effectively doing nothing.

I'd say the main thing worrying the council workers is that someone will come along on this scheme who appreciates the opportunity and applies themselves - showing up the full timers.

Xenji · 21-02-2014 01:21PM

Jawgap wrote: »

They should do both - no reason why anyone should get money for effectively doing nothing.

I'd say the main thing worrying the council workers is that someone will come along on this scheme who appreciates the opportunity and applies themselves - showing up the full timers.

Even if they show up the full timers, which I have seen many do, they will not get hired in the end anyway, the majority of the interns I have mentored in the council start with a fire for the job and then when they get told or find that it is not possible to hire any of them after the 9 months, a fact they are not told in interviews, all the fight goes out of them and they become very despondent and just start to go through the motions, something I do not blame them for.

Daith · 21-02-2014 01:28PM

cletus van damme wrote: »

I'm sure you'll argue 40,000 is quite high. However you need to bear in mind that in that 40,000 there are people who are unemployable for various reasons illness , drug addiction , mental incapable, single parents who have kids, criminals with records or active criminals.

These people shouldn't be claiming job seekers benefit as they're not able to work or actively looking for work. So these scheme wouldn't effect them?

Or am I reading that wrong?

The Diabolical Monocle · 21-02-2014 01:41PM

Where do all the Chinese go to study in the USA ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_University

cletus van damme · 21-02-2014 01:42PM

Daith wrote: »

These people shouldn't be claiming job seekers benefit as they're not able to work or actively looking for work. So these scheme wouldn't effect them?

Or am I reading that wrong?

you are right.
But they need to eat so what are they gonna do - turfed off the sick benefit with only dole available for them.

But since they are on the dole - they will be on these schemes.

But my point was in relation to teh poster who was delighted these people who have never worked will now be forced to work. My point is that cohort is small enough

terryduff12 · 21-02-2014 02:10PM

Already on a tus scheme, for doing it im getting taxed because I claim for 3 others. never Said at interviews I would be taxed only that I would get an extra 20, getting less now because of the tax. My question is when I off this and get hounded to do jobsbridge or gateway how does payment Work do ya get 50 euro off employer or is it all one payment into bank, 22 months on gateway is a long time with no raise.

shruikan2553 · 21-02-2014 02:15PM

Long term unemployed? That cant be right. They must have meant that anyone signing on the dole now will be put onto these scheme. Imagine if they actually left those who just signed on a few months to find a job and went after those who have been unemployed for a long time. That sounds like too much sense for them.

Quazzie · 21-02-2014 02:20PM

cletus van damme wrote: »

yes about 40000 (figures release in 2013) out of 400,000 and I'd argue the remaining 360,000 are interchangeable (i.e. not the same people all the time)

according to these figures jan 2014 - 54.5% of people are short term claimants. So you propose punishing short term claimaints in order to feel smug about getting wasters working - digging weeds.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/unemployment-rate

I'm sure you'll argue 40,000 is quite high. However you need to bear in mind that in that 40,000 there are people who are unemployable for various reasons illness , drug addiction , mental incapable, single parents who have kids, criminals with records or active criminals.
Out of an overall popluation it's not huge and of course people who have finsihed school or college and can't get a job.

Now in case you wonder why sick people are on the dole and not on sick benefit - there is a policy in the SW to kick people who are sick off the sick benefit onto the dole - I'm guessing it's easier to make their life difficult on the dole and hopefully they'll go away.

i know this happened to two people I'm close too - called in for an interview , general questions about their lives no speifics about their illness, no acceptance of medical reports and then two weeks later a letter saying illness benefit is cut off.

So you're talking about a small section of society but wanting to drag everybody down cos of them

So these people can't prove their illness. Well then they should be on the sole while looking for employment. No bs excuses. People who blame the government for this kind of shıt ate exactly the kind of people who need to be forced to work.

Xenji · 21-02-2014 02:23PM

terryduff12 wrote: »

Already on a tus scheme, for doing it im getting taxed because I claim for 3 others. never Said at interviews I would be taxed only that I would get an extra 20, getting less now because of the tax. My question is when I off this and get hounded to do jobsbridge or gateway how does payment Work do ya get 50 euro off employer or is it all one payment into bank, 22 months on gateway is a long time with no raise.

It is the DSP ( government ) that pay you the extra €50, not the employer as they do not have to pay anything, you will get €238 payed into your bank account at midnight every wednesday, well that is if you are getting the €188 a week as it is and you are not guaranteed a job at the end of it, it is actually harder now to get hired then it was about 6 months ago.

Xenji · 21-02-2014 02:28PM

Quazzie wrote: »

So these people can't prove their illness. Well then they should be on the sole while looking for employment. No bs excuses. People who blame the government for this kind of shıt ate exactly the kind of people who need to be forced to work.

The people are being forced to work with no possibility of a job in the end, which means the government will still be forking out money on them and they will be back to square one at the end of it, the jobs that these people are being forced to take are taking away from people trying to find real full time employment and is costing the government money in lost taxes. I agree that long term unemployed should be made to work, especially if they are fit and able, but they should be made do public work schemes, not taking away skilled jobs in offices, we are hardly gonna stimulate our economy if people are still being paid peanuts and the government is bleeding money.

Daith · 21-02-2014 02:37PM

Xenji wrote: »

The people are being forced to work with no possibility of a job in the end

There's nothing stopping them from looking for a job in a different company?

rawn · 21-02-2014 02:42PM

Daith wrote: »

There's nothing stopping them from looking for a job in a different company?

So there's gonna be 800 jobs for these people in 22 months in other companies after years of unemployment and nearly 2 years being forced to pick up rubbish? Would you hire them?

darkpagandeath · 21-02-2014 02:42PM

Daith wrote: »

There's nothing stopping them from looking for a job in a different company?

What jobs ? we have 26 applicants for every job Or did you just think people are lazy.

cletus van damme · 21-02-2014 02:43PM

Quazzie wrote: »

So these people can't prove their illness. Well then they should be on the sole while looking for employment. No bs excuses. People who blame the government for this kind of shıt ate exactly the kind of people who need to be forced to work.

ok - one of these people (who is my gf btw) had a cert from her doctor and a specialist saying she was unfit for work. proof.
SW after the interview said they were cancelling her benefit. She could appeal - it could take a year and she'd get nothing for the year in payment.
or go on the dole - she needed to eat/clothe herself etc...
so to the dole she went. being on the dole didn't make her any more able to work.

This is widespread in ireland - if think you have an agenda or your head buried up your hole.

There are many stories about people falling between stools when it comes to government care and although being

Daith · 21-02-2014 02:44PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What jobs ? we have 26 applicants for every job Or did you just think people are lazy.

Well these people haven't had a job in over two years. Some of them may be lazy yes.

Again, nothing is stopping them looking for another job. Or going back to college. Or up-skilling themselves.

rawn wrote: »

So there's gonna be 800 jobs for these people in 22 months in other companies after years of unemployment and nearly 2 years being forced to pick up rubbish? Would you hire them?

So what's the answer? They stay on the dole forever?

Xenji · 21-02-2014 02:45PM

Daith wrote: »

There's nothing stopping them from looking for a job in a different company?

This is true, although 800 of them that have been out of work for 4 years with possibly no skills will be very tough and it is taking away 800 real jobs that people who actually want to work would love to have. If the government got rid of the moratorium on hiring for all the councils which is meant to be lifted at the of the year, they would be able to hire between 3000-5000 new full time staff, but cannot see that happening after this announcement, they just want to keep using these schemes as it saves the government more money, while taking more and more jobs out of the country.

darkpagandeath · 21-02-2014 02:46PM

Daith wrote: »

Well these people haven't had a job in over two years. Some of them may be lazy yes.

Ah ok so the Recession only started this year yes ? Before this year or last year there were plenty of jobs then yes ? No massive cutting of workforces all over Ireland 3 ? or even 4 years ago ?

Daith · 21-02-2014 02:48PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Ah ok so the Recession only started this year yes ? Before this year or last year there were plenty of jobs then yes ? No massive cutting of workforces all over Ireland 3 ? or even 4 years ago ?

Some of them may be lazy and quite happy not to do anything getting paid dole money and other benefits.

Some of them may be unlucky and can't find a job.

I'm not generalizing anyone but to argue that everyone out of work for over two years isn't lazy isn't right either.

Jawgap · 21-02-2014 02:55PM

cletus van damme wrote: »

.....

I'm sure you'll argue 40,000 is quite high. However you need to bear in mind that in that 40,000 there are people who are unemployable for various reasons illness , drug addiction , mental incapable, single parents who have kids, criminals with records or active criminals.
Out of an overall popluation it's not huge and of course people who have finsihed school or college and can't get a job.

I'm a single parent with kids (now in their teens) - I work fulltime.

Single parents and criminals may well be unemployable for various reasons, but it doesn't mean they can't do socially useful work.

darkpagandeath · 21-02-2014 02:59PM

Daith wrote: »

Some of them may be lazy and quite happy not to do anything getting paid dole money and other benefits.

Some of them may be unlucky and can't find a job.

I'm not generalizing anyone but to argue that everyone out of work for over two years isn't lazy isn't right either.

Ok so no job availability 26 applicants per position makes you lazy that's interesting. So these people should just go actively sweep clean your streets Say what 4 months after being on the Dole. You know to keep them Busy spending what little money they have on lunches and traveling to and from that work pushing them further down the bread line. Eventually not having enough money to print c.v’s out or pay for internet to apply for jobs that seems like a really good idea alright .....

The Jobbridge Scandal

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