Emphasis on French/German as foreign languages in Irish secondary schools

DainBramage · 20-02-2014 01:34AM #1

I konw these are our neighbours in the EU but at this stage should we be putting more focus on really useful languages for business/travel like Mandarin/Cantonese and Spanish etc.

When one goes to Germany in particular everyone will speak English fluentlly to a non-english speaker no matter how well they can speak German.
Has anyone really seen the benefits of their 5 years plus french/german stud

Firewalkwithme · 20-02-2014 01:36AM

Yeah and Australian too.

MadsL · 20-02-2014 01:36AM

DainBramage wrote: »

I konw these are our neighbours in the EU but at this stage should we be putting more focus on really useful languages for business/travel like Mandarin/Cantonese and Spanish etc.

When one goes to Germany in particular everyone will speak English fluentlly to a non-english speaker no matter how well they can speak German.
Has anyone really seen the benefits of their 5 years plus french/german stud

I wish I had learned spanish in school...I'm now surrounded by about 40% Spanish speakers.

My daughter is learning Japanese though...

MadsL · 20-02-2014 01:37AM

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Yeah and Australian too.

It's pronounced 'stralian.

20-02-2014 01:37AM

France and Germany are close by yet our young people would sooner move halfway around the word to get a job. I'd rather teach them French/German/Spanish better since we live in this massive free travel and employment area.

Firewalkwithme · 20-02-2014 01:38AM

MadsL wrote: »

It's pronounced 'stralian.

Right ye are me old drongo mate.... shrimp on the barbie etc....

Fr_Dougal · 20-02-2014 01:43AM

DainBramage wrote: »

I konw these are our neighbours in the EU but at this stage should we be putting more focus on really useful languages for business/travel like Mandarin/Cantonese and Spanish etc.

When one goes to Germany in particular everyone will speak English fluentlly to a non-english speaker no matter how well they can speak German.
Has anyone really seen the benefits of their 5 years plus french/german stud

Yes.

MadsL · 20-02-2014 01:44AM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Yes.

You mean Oui/Ja surely...

MadsL · 20-02-2014 01:45AM

DainBramage wrote: »

Has anyone really seen the benefits of their 5 years plus french/german stud

I think that's illegal...? :eek:

Boskowski · 20-02-2014 01:46AM

I don't get your thinking at all. We have loads of unemployed young people willing to make a move and Germany has loads of opportunities right now. But the young unemployed have to travel to the far end of the globe to find a job cos they have no German.

Photo-Sniper · 20-02-2014 01:49AM

Boskowski wrote: »

I don't get your thinking at all. We have loads of unemployed young people willing to make a move and Germany has loads of opportunities right now. But the young unemployed have to travel to the far end of the globe to find a job cos they have no German.

Not necessarily true.

FWIW I speak fluent German and when I moved here I had none. I didnt struggle to get a job in the least.. English will suffice in most areas over here.

Germany certainly doesnt have a lot of opportunities. Well, that mightn't be true, but Berlin does not.

Berlin is one of the hardest places in the world to get a job, regardless of what language you speak..

Duck's hoop · 20-02-2014 01:50AM

If you cant learn French or German to conversational level, what's the chance of learning fücking mandarin?

I'd say you'd have a better chance at it after learning one of those 2. Spanish isn't very difficult. Even easier after French.

But good luck getting the vast majority of Irish teenagers to sit down and learn Chinese.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-02-2014 01:52AM

The point here is that English is useful, not a foreign language is useful. We already speak English (well, most of us).

Of course, it also all depends on what is "useful" to the individual.

20-02-2014 01:53AM

Photo-Sniper wrote: »

Not necessarily true.

FWIW I speak fluent German and when I moved here I had none. I didnt struggle to get a job in the least.. English will suffice in most areas over here.

Germany certainly doesnt have a lot of opportunities. Well, that mightn't be true, but Berlin does not.

Berlin is one of the hardest places in the world to get a job, regardless of what language you speak..

I can keep up with German but I'm not very good. The trouble with learning German is that they'd like to practice their English when you ask them directions. :P Dutch is the worst for that, they feckin love English. If ya spent 6 weeks in France on the other hand, you'll either learn French or Arabic, they won't entertain English.

keith16 · 20-02-2014 01:54AM

DainBramage wrote: »

I konw these are our neighbours in the EU but at this stage should we be putting more focus on really useful languages for business/travel like Mandarin/Cantonese and Spanish etc.

Can you please explain in detail why Mandarin is more beneficial than German?

Photo-Sniper · 20-02-2014 01:55AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I can keep up with German but I'm not very good. The trouble with learning German is that they'd like to practice their English when you ask them directions. :P Dutch is the worst for that, they feckin love English. If ya spent 6 weeks in France on the other hand, you'll either learn French or Arabic, they won't entertain English.

Indeed, they do like to speak English most of the time.. Find it annoying when I am replied to in English yet my german is perfect but its the Cork accent.

"kann ich haben ein bier bitte, baiiii"

Firewalkwithme · 20-02-2014 02:00AM

We would be better off learning Java / C++ / (insert any other programming language you like here) in this day and age.

English has become the nearest thing we have to a world language already.

Tokyo · 20-02-2014 02:05AM

Learning to speak French or German in school doesn't limit you to those languages. It creates a framework in your mind for the structures of different languages, their syntax and root words, and makes learning each subsequent language far easier. Anyone who studies French for example, would find learning Spanish much easier than it would be for a monolingual person.

Firewalkwithme · 20-02-2014 02:07AM

mike_ie wrote: »

Learning to speak French or German in school doesn't limit you to those languages. It creates a framework in your mind for the structures of different languages, their syntax and root words, and makes learning each subsequent language far easier. Anyone who studies French for example, would find learning Spanish much easier than it would be for a monolingual person.

So we should learn French / German as practice for learning useful languages?

Right.....

Tokyo · 20-02-2014 02:08AM

Yep, because that's exactly what I said in my post...

Herb Powell · 20-02-2014 02:08AM

DainBramage wrote: »

I konw these are our neighbours in the EU but at this stage should we be putting more focus on really useful languages for business/travel like Mandarin/Cantonese and Spanish etc.

When one goes to Germany in particular everyone will speak English fluentlly to a non-english speaker no matter how well they can speak German.
Has anyone really seen the benefits of their 5 years plus french/german stud

Living in Germany at the moment. No, not everyone speaks English. Not even close.

I see this myth thrown around a lot and it annoys me. the arrogance of the English speaker.

Photo-Sniper wrote: »

Indeed, they do like to speak English most of the time.. Find it annoying when I am replied to in English yet my german is perfect but its the Cork accent.

"kann ich haben ein bier bitte, baiiii"

Koennte ich bitte ein Bier haben, baaaaaiiiii

oder noch besser

Ich haette gern ein Bier

SpaceTime · 20-02-2014 02:10AM

We have a very significant Polish population in Ireland and also quite a few Czech and Russian speakers living here.

It seems utter madness not to actively encourage some of them to do the PGDE and start teaching in second level here.

Surely there must be plenty of people with undergraduate degrees in Polish or other eastern European languages.

These are huge countries that we have direct connections with and they're growing economically far more than France.

I've worked with plenty of very well educated folk from that part of the world. Its long overdue we tapped into a group of potential teachers that could open a whole new window on Europe.

You'd learn an Eastern European language far more easily than Chinese too. They're not THAT different to English or Irish - all European languages (with a couple of exceptions) are related and follow similar logic of grammar etc

20-02-2014 02:10AM

Photo-Sniper wrote: »

Indeed, they do like to speak English most of the time.. Find it annoying when I am replied to in English yet my german is perfect but its the Cork accent.

"kann ich haben ein bier bitte, baiiii"

Weissen Sie wo ist der S-Bahnstation?
Sorry, I'm from Frankfurt.

FFS :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-02-2014 02:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Weissen Sie wo ist der S-BahnHOF
Sorry, I'm from Frankfurt.

FFS :pac:

See me after class...

vamos! · 20-02-2014 02:12AM

Photo-Sniper wrote: »

Indeed, they do like to speak English most of the time.. Find it annoying when I am replied to in English yet my german is perfect but its the Cork accent.

"kann ich haben ein bier bitte, baiiii"

Just refuse to speak English and continue strange conversations here you speak German and they reply in English. The sentence you posted isn't perfect btw, but they should still speak to you in the language you start with.

It doesn't really matter what language we teach our students. Realistically once you have learned French, Spanish follows. German might not be a romantic language but you will be familiar with tenses and sentence structure and learning another language will be easier. Teaching Mandarin in schools is insane. We simply don't have the contact hours required to learn an new script and all of the new sounds. You would have to drop all other subjects. As for making it a 'short course' for the new Junior Cert... we will have a whole generation who are able to say hello and goodbye and make a powerpoint presenation about Chinese tea ceremonies. Hardly useful preparation for business life.

20-02-2014 02:13AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

See me after class...

What are ya? French?

Photo-Sniper · 20-02-2014 02:14AM

vamos! wrote: »

Just refuse to speak English and continue strange conversations here you speak German and they reply in English. The sentence you posted isn't perfect btw, but they should still speak to you in the language you start with.

It doesn't really matter what language we teach our students. Realistically once you have learned French, Spanish follows. German might not be a romantic language but you will be familiar with tenses and sentence structure and learning another language will be easier. Teaching Mandarin in schools is insane. We simply don't have the contact hours required to learn an new script and all of the new sounds. You would have to drop all other subjects. As for making it a 'short course' for the new Junior Cert... we will have a whole generation who are able to say hello and goodbye and make a powerpoint presenation about Chinese tea ceremonies. Hardly useful preparation for business life.

Of course its not. I didnt expect their to be a troop of german speakers on here...its 2:15 am and im drinking on a wednesday night give me a break

Photo-Sniper · 20-02-2014 02:17AM

Herb Powell wrote: »

Living in Germany at the moment. No, not everyone speaks English. Not even close.

I see this myth thrown around a lot and it annoys me. the arrogance of the English speaker.

Me too.

People under 30 most of the time, but one of my co-workers is 50 and doesnt even know what how are you means. Tis mad ted

vamos! · 20-02-2014 02:18AM

SpaceTime wrote: »

We have a very significant Polish population in Ireland and also quite a few Czech and Russian speakers living here.

It seems utter madness not to actively encourage some of them to do the PGDE and start teaching in second level here.

Surely there must be plenty of people with undergraduate degrees in Polish or other eastern European languages.

These are huge countries that we have direct connections with and they're growing economically far more than France.

I've worked with plenty of very well educated folk from that part of the world. Its long overdue we tapped into a group of potential teachers that could open a whole new window on Europe.

You'd learn an Eastern European language far more easily than Chinese too. They're not THAT different to English or Irish - all European languages (with a couple of exceptions) are related and follow similar logic of grammar etc

Lovely idea but where would we get the funding? I can't imagine a full class of 28 deciding to take Polish. Schools are already having to drop either Spanish or German as they can't run classes with 18 students when the French teacher next door has to take 38. There is so much we could do with our education system but it won't happen and jumping on the bandwagon with the likes of Polish is madness. The economy might be growing but French is a major language in the EU. It is also spoken in other countries around the world. Poland has had mass emigration and now their bilingual children who grew up here, the UK or the US can use their language skills. I hardly imagine there is enough demand for us to need to teach Polish as a foreign language.

vamos! · 20-02-2014 02:20AM

Photo-Sniper wrote: »

Of course its not. I didnt expect their to be a troop of german speakers on here...its 2:15 am and im drinking on a wednesday night give me a break

I didn't mean to be so pedantic. I have spent a large portion of this week correcting German mocks and modal verbs being used incorrectly obviously annoys me more than I thought. Sorry!

Photo-Sniper · 20-02-2014 02:22AM

vamos! wrote: »

I didn't mean to be so pedantic. I have spent a large portion of this week correcting German mocks and modal verbs being used incorrectly obviously annoys me more than I thought. Sorry!

Was only messing

no bother.

You're dead right though.. Pretty shabby sentence from someone who just claimed they were fluent.

Unfortunately I am though... Unfortunate in the sense that when I get caught on a bahn without a ticket "i dont speak german" doesnt suffice anymore.

Emphasis on French/German as foreign languages in Irish secondary schools

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