Seanad discussing should the pope visit Ireland

Cabaal · 19-02-2014 10:11AM #1

http://www.thejournal.ie/whats-on-in-leinster-house-today-1321355-Feb2014/

The Seanad will debate a motion that Pope Francis should be invited to address the chamber from 1.30pm.

Poll running for this as well and thankfully most sane people are against such a visit

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-visit-ireland-1322634-Feb2014/

branie · 19-02-2014 12:13PM

I'm sane and for the visit

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-02-2014 12:14PM

Senator David Norris has said he believed a visit by the Pope would “lift the spirit of Ireland”.

I seriously doubt it.

FouxDaFaFa · 19-02-2014 12:37PM

If he wants to come, he can pay for it himself.

I know he's being marketed as the cool new pope but he has done feck all to redress victims of clerical abuse, he has messed around with the UN and he has sheltered child abusers in the Vatican itself.

Not to mind all the platitudes about loving your fellow man while Magdalene survivors die off one by one.

If he comes and the state picks up the tab, it is just more money that we are giving an organisation that can well fund itself and that can afford to do the right thing if it were that way inclined.

Zillah · 19-02-2014 12:51PM

I don't think we should continue to validate or legitimise their insane authority structures by welcoming him anymore than we should invite the Scientology leadership.

That said, I kind of do hope that he visits because the turn out will never compare with what aul Johnny got, and he's likely to get a wall of placards at some point protesting child abuse, as he should.

I also think that's why he'll say no.

iDave · 19-02-2014 12:53PM

I can already feel the nausea from hearing people say how their faith was rediscovered during his visit.

seamus · 19-02-2014 12:54PM

I see no reason to invite him over. The Vatican provides nothing of any tangible benefit to this country, so inviting their head of state over would serve no purpose.

Cabaal · 19-02-2014 01:09PM

Zillah wrote: »

That said, I kind of do hope that he visits because the turn out will never compare with what aul Johnny got, and he's likely to get a wall of placards at some point protesting child abuse, as he should.

I've actually discussed this with my wife,
I'll take time off to protest if he comes to Ireland, my wife likely will too

Cabaal · 19-02-2014 03:25PM

RSVP: Seanad pass motion to invite Pope Francis to Ireland

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-ireland-visit-seanad-1323258-Feb2014/

Disappointed with Norris on this I have to say, he like many have fallen for the church's new PR guy

shruikan2553 · 19-02-2014 03:33PM

Can we give him the bill for the victims of the church's past while he's here? Or do we all cheer how great it is because he says things?

FouxDaFaFa · 19-02-2014 03:55PM

Cabaal wrote: »

RSVP: Seanad pass motion to invite Pope Francis to Ireland

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-ireland-visit-seanad-1323258-Feb2014/

You have got to be kidding me.

I hate the whole "argh, my tax money at work" cliché but I cannot believe I am expected to contribute towards this event if the pope accepts. Because you know there's no way in hell the vatican would fund this.

I am supposed to happily part with money to welcome an organisation that unabashedly tells me that I am not good enough to be a real member of their church because I'm a woman, that gay people aren't good enough (divorced people, etc) and that openly treats its own image as more important than victims of rape.

Great.

Cabaal · 19-02-2014 04:04PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Can we give him the bill for the victims of the church's past while he's here? Or do we all cheer how great it is because he says things?

I think perhaps we should bring him on a tour of all the laundries and places people were abused, should full up his visit nicely.

At the end we detain him until the compensation bills are paid

eyescreamcone · 19-02-2014 04:06PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Can we give him the bill for the victims of the church's past while he's here? Or do we all cheer how great it is because he says things?

Maybe he'll get off the plane and present one of those giant cheques to Enda on the runway.

The amount should be made out for the amount that they still owe us for clerical sex abuse.

Then he can fcek off back up the steps and back to his pretend country of Fairytaleland!

kylith · 19-02-2014 05:08PM

seamus wrote: »

I see no reason to invite him over.

I do. We invite him in, put him on telly, and then ask "When, exactly, will the Catholic Church be paying compensation to the Magdalen Laundry survivors and the people who were raped by priests?" The we keep repeating the question and don't take the camera off him until he names a date and signs a contract. Maybe also refuse to let him leave until he orders the handover of pederasts to the relevant authorities and gives full and unfettered access to all the church's records.

catallus · 19-02-2014 08:16PM

I think a visit form him would be very nice.

recedite · 19-02-2014 08:27PM

Before anyone gets too upset about this, just remember the Seanad is just a talking shop, and its about as influential as a boards.ie poll wanting to invite the pope to Ireland. If it were actually to happen, the invitation would have to come from the Government, via the Dail. Then the RC hierarchy here would have to advise the Vatican that such a stunt had a good chance of being well received. Then Franky would have to agree and make the time for it.
Quite a few unlikely events still standing in the way then.

TheChizler · 19-02-2014 11:32PM

The Seanad might be powerless but I must say I was disappointed to see that the vote was unanimous. Especially surprised with Norris, I wonder has he ulterior motives? I normally don't get urges to protest but that small part of me has perked up.

Manach · 19-02-2014 11:34PM

Given the great moral leadership and support the Church has shown through much of the history of Ireland, compared to the weak and self-enriching political classes, I'm sure a visit will be a great idea.

TheChizler · 19-02-2014 11:38PM

Manach wrote: »

Given the great moral leadership and support the Church has shown through much of the history of Ireland, compared to the weak and self-enriching political classes, I'm sure a visit will be a great idea.

I think you'll find the Church's and other people's definitions of 'moral' differ vastly.

Brian Shanahan · 19-02-2014 11:41PM

Cabaal wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/whats-on-in-leinster-house-today-1321355-Feb2014/

Poll running for this as well and thankfully most sane people are against such a visit

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-visit-ireland-1322634-Feb2014/

I'd be for a visit. But only in the case that the visit was him being put before a judge on charges of aiding and abetting criminals, obstructing the course of justice and unlawful interference in the running of a soverign nation (I don't know what the term is for when a foreign national commits the equivalent to treason).

Brian Shanahan · 19-02-2014 11:48PM

Manach wrote: »

Given the great moral leadership and support the Church has shown through much of the history of Ireland, compared to the weak and self-enriching political classes, I'm sure a visit will be a great idea.

Ha. Manach you have a great tendency of telling lies when it comes to the rcc and Ireland.

You've said the rcc was a force for Irish independence. It never was.
You've said the rcc was a vehicle for education in Ireland. It never was, it just piggybacked of state initiatives and creamed off the wealthy.
You now say the rcc is a moral leadership in this country. Look at its supression of the Mother and Child Scheme, its supression of any left wing tendencies in the countries, its Limerick progrom against the Jewish population of that city, its mass rape of children, its selling of children solely for financial gain, its mass physical and psychological torture of vulnerable and needy young women. This is morality as monstrous as the worst nightmares of Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia.

The_Valeyard · 20-02-2014 12:18AM

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

You've said the rcc was a force for Irish independence. It never was.

Maybe not for independence, (all be they were very much on the pro-treaty side) but there is strong evidence it did play a role in healing the wounds of the civil war.

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

This is morality as monstrous as the worst nightmares of Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia.

Within going into a godwin arguement. You do realise that Stalinist Russia was a forced Atheist State and some of the 3rd Reich leading members were staunch atheists. So in a sense your comparing the RCC to an atheist regime?

shruikan2553 · 20-02-2014 12:50AM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Within going into a godwin arguement. You do realise that Stalinist Russia was a forced Atheist State and some of the 3rd Reich leading members were staunch atheists. So in a sense your comparing the RCC to an atheist regime?

I think he was comparing it the the nazi and Stalinist regime. Not sure what their religious or lack of affiliation has to do with the crimes that the RCC has committed.

The_Valeyard · 20-02-2014 12:54AM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I think he was comparing it the the nazi and Stalinist regime. Not sure what their religious or lack of affiliation has to do with the crimes that the RCC has committed.

He made a comparison about a religious grouping then compared their crimes to that of other notorious and far more murderous regimes in 20th century Europe. Just thought it was interesting, the viewpoint of a religious group equated with a non religious group. Two sides, same coin.

shruikan2553 · 20-02-2014 12:59AM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

He made a comparison about a religious grouping then compared their crimes to that of other notorious and far more murderous regimes in 20th century Europe. Just thought it was interesting, the viewpoint of a religious group equated with a non religious group. Two sides, same coin.

Slight difference with the RCC being a religion and a nation with a religious affiliation. In the case with russia theism was just pushed into private places in an effort to destroy the power of the churches. Nazi germany didnt go as far as it wasnt an atheist group, it was mostly Christian. In both cases the issue wasn't with religion but with how much power the church as an organisation had.

The_Valeyard · 20-02-2014 01:05AM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Slight difference with the RCC being a religion and a nation with a religious affiliation. In the case with russia theism was just pushed into private places in an effort to destroy the power of the churches. Nazi germany didnt go as far as it wasnt an atheist group, it was mostly Christian. In both cases the issue wasn't with religion but with how much power the church as an organisation had.

Religion was not simply pushed back into the private place, many priests and followers were exterminated during the purges or sent to the gulags. Some very old cathedrals were knocked down and build on with things like swimming pools.

Nazi Germany bullied Christians into submission. Nazism openly encouraged people to abandon their religion. Hitlers inner circle did have plans to eventually but slowly remove Christianity from Germany and advoate state atheism. Led by men like Martin Bormann.

Sarky · 20-02-2014 01:55AM

Manach wrote: »

Given the great moral leadership and support the Church has shown through much of the history of Ireland...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M

PopePalpatine · 20-02-2014 09:20AM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Religion was not simply pushed back into the private place, many priests and followers were exterminated during the purges or sent to the gulags. Some very old cathedrals were knocked down and build on with things like swimming pools.

Nazi Germany bullied Christians into submission. Nazism openly encouraged people to abandon their religion. Hitlers inner circle did have plans to eventually but slowly remove Christianity from Germany and advoate state atheism. Led by men like Martin Bormann.

While Bormann was anti-Christian, the Nazis as a whole didn't tolerate atheism, associating it with "godless Communism".

Cienciano · 20-02-2014 09:29AM

kylith wrote: »

I do. We invite him in, put him on telly, and then ask "When, exactly, will the Catholic Church be paying compensation to the Magdalen Laundry survivors and the people who were raped by priests?" The we keep repeating the question and don't take the camera off him until he names a date and signs a contract. Maybe also refuse to let him leave until he orders the handover of pederasts to the relevant authorities and gives full and unfettered access to all the church's records.

The thing is, if the pope practiced what he preaches, that's exactly what he would do. But this guy just shakes the hand of someone with a disfiguring illness and everyone thinks he's a great lad and it's a new direction for the catholic church. People are idiots

Cabaal · 20-02-2014 10:02AM

Manach wrote: »

Given the great moral leadership and support the Church has shown through much of the history of Ireland, compared to the weak and self-enriching political classes, I'm sure a visit will be a great idea.

Yeah,
I mean as we've seen with the church they've always put number one first.
Of course number one is the catholic church

kylith · 20-02-2014 10:34AM

Cienciano wrote: »

The thing is, if the pope practiced what he preaches, that's exactly what he would do. But this guy just shakes the hand of someone with a disfiguring illness and everyone thinks he's a great lad and it's a new direction for the catholic church. People are idiots

Oh, definitely. He's not a force for change in the RCC, he's a PR exercise, distracting people from the scandals with the 'revolutionary' idea that people should be nicer to gay people.

Seanad discussing should the pope visit Ireland

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